Advice & Comments please.

[Scorpion Rob]

Hi Everyone,

 

Thank you in advance for any help or advice you can give me.

I am going to guess this question has been asked a million times before and I did try and find a thread first but I could not.

I am looking for a new telescope. I have had scopes in the past (many years ago) I want the scope for the following reasons ;-

• General star gazing, Looking at the planets, there rings and moons etc
• Deeper sky items such as nebula`s and such like
• Astrophotography - just a little not massively

I live at the top of a small mountain, 1000 feet ASL and min light pollution. Budget around £1000

I KNOW, realistically I am looking at three different scopes.

Does or can anyone recommend a scope that would cover most of it?

Thanks again for any help you can offer

Cheers

Rob

[miguel87]

Hi Rob,

It's a pretty big question to answer and I'm not sure how much previous experience you have.

I think the main topic of discussion will be the astrophotography because the other categories should be well covered by pretty much any well made scope in that price bracket.

People often say they have a small interest in astrophotography so would like a scope that can do "a bit".

The way I see it, a scope can either do AP or it can't. Unless of course by just a bit you mean you would be happy with less high quality images in which case there are many different options.

How well your scope will do astrophotography is mostly dependent on your mount. I.e. how accurately can it track an object in the sky without wobbling.

People with more experience might give specific examples but I say £1000  will buy a great scope from any good manufacturer. How much of that you spend on the mount will dictate the quality of any photos you want to take (generally speaking).

[Scorpion Rob]

Hey Thanks for answering me. I have a lot of experience in photography and less in stars etc lol. I am in the process of doing an OU course now. So hoping that will bring my basic knowledge up to par. I guess I do or would like to have a go at astrophotography but not necessarily an all the time thing. Thanks again

[jambouk]

There is no one scope which does all of this well, and as said above, if imaging is key then the mount is just as if not more important.

Buy second hand. Get something like an NEQ6 or AZEQ6 mount, and then get an 80mm [semi-]apo refractor for imaging deep sky objects and either a 200mm reflector or the largest aperture SCT or Mak as you can afford for observing and imaging the planets and the Moon; you’ll need to check the issues with achieving focus with a DSLR before buying the reflector, and likely need a quality Barlow or PowerMate if using that to image the planets. If visual stuff of the deep sky is your thing, go for the reflector.

You need more than one telescope to do this all. But whatever you get, you will likely be thinking about the next telescope within weeks. It is a hobby where people’s appetite change and the only real way to know what works for you is to try something; most things second hand hold a reasonable price so very little lost if you buy something say for £400 and sell it a few months later For £400 as it isn’t what you want. 

[bomberbaz]

Ok so here’s what i do that covers all you asked for.  Not brilliant in two of the three but keeps me happy. 
 

skywatcher gti wifi mount & tripod with a 127 mak.  Great for clusters and planetary.  Stick a 0.5 reducer on this and it will do satisfactory for dso. 
 

same mount as above with a starguider wedge ( you need flash the mount to operate in eq mode) then i am using a small F4.2 frac with a zwo asi224mc camera.  I can do short exposure pictures of brighter dso and planetary. 
 

i also have a solar wedge and do solar on the mount.  It is very ubiquitous.  
 

i upgraded the tripod to a steel one, it is much steadier. I think the whole setup cost circa £1,050
 

Like i said it is not a perfect solution but it covers your objectives as well as could be.   
 

steve

Edited May 17, 2020 by bomberbaz

[Cosmic Geoff]

Your request is a little too general for a specific answer. 

Do you want/can afford a GoTo mount?

Visuals on deep sky objects requires a large aperture.

Some setups which fulfil your other requirements will be useless for deep sky astrophotography.

Requirement for planetary imaging is similar to visual, but different from deep space imaging.

What do you want to prioritize?

[Scorpion Rob]

Thank you guys for all your information, very helpful in researching my options. Thank you for taking the time to reply.

I was looking originally to used my Nikon DSLR. would this be a good start or go to a scope cam?

 

[jambouk]

DSLR defo to start with

[Scorpion Rob]

Reasons? Can I ask?

[bomberbaz]

 I am far from an expert but my take is depends what eesults you want.  A dslr leads onto a heavier mount and then higher cost.  Budget £1,000 remember 

[tooth_dr]

31 minutes ago, Scorpion Rob said:

Reasons? Can I ask?

A DSLR can be used at the scope, without any extra stuff. Once you buy an astro cam you will need a laptop, 12v power supply, software.  You may end up using these with a DSLR anyway but at least you aren’t tied.

A used DSLR for astroimaging can cost as little as £100-120, which gives you a nice big sensor and ease of use.

Most people start with a DSLR, and I think this is the right way to go. Some people may suggest starting with a dedicated astro camera but this may be a step too far if you interests don’t lie principally in astroimaging.

[Scorpion Rob]

That all makes sense, thanks guys.

[TerryMcK]

I think as many of your likes are visual and you have minimal light pollution you might be good with a Dobsonsian like the Skywatcher 200P which is purely manual. However if you have £1000 you could upgrade to a goto Dob like the 200P goto Dob https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html or even the 250P goto Dob https://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-250px-flextube-goto.html

You can actually do some Astrophotography work with either of those ( not brilliant stuff but it is possible). The best thing is it will get you in the ballpark and you can view planets and their moons, close ups of the moon and some deep space stuff. You can’t really view nebula visually with this gear as they are too faint for the human eye. But if I had skies like yours I certainly would buy one of these (as well as the gear I currently have too).

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by TerryMcK

[jambouk]

You’ve already got the DSLR; the sensor is likely much bigger than your overall £1000 budget could afford if you were to buy a dedicated Astro can; no need for additional wires and power and laptop at the side of the scope; less things to learn. If astrophotography is your thing a DSLR is an excellent starting point, possibly the best starting point, but then you need to invest heavily in the mount and just get an 80mm apo and forget visual observation for the time being. There is no one set up which ticks all the boxes you want it to tick. 

[bomberbaz]

26 minutes ago, tooth_dr said:

A DSLR can be used at the scope,

Surely though once you start hanging a camera off a scope, the extra stuff you are still going into the realms of a HEQ type mount are you not?

[tooth_dr]

6 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Surely though once you start hanging a camera off a scope, the extra stuff you are still going into the realms of a HEQ type mount are you not?

A DSLR is a cheap, light way of starting AP. You may have misinterpreted my point about extra stuff. It wasn’t weight but cost.  A DSLR is the complete package (more or less) for a beginner.  I havent weighed my canon cropped frame DSLR but I guess around 600g?

 

 

 

 

 

[miguel87]

31 minutes ago, bomberbaz said:

Surely though once you start hanging a camera off a scope, the extra stuff you are still going into the realms of a HEQ type mount are you not?

My pentax DSLR is lighter than my 2inch 32mm eyepiece!

Definitely the best intro to photography especially if you already have a DSLR.

If I had to give a specific recommendation I would get a skywatcher 200p explorer and  a HEQ5 mount. That comes out at about £1030 all brand new.

You've got a perfectly capable mount for started some astrophotography.

A good 8 inch aperture for seeing a huge range of DSO's.

And a very capable (if not quite as sharp as a refractor) planetary viewer.

Only my opinion tho.

Edited May 17, 2020 by miguel87

[bomberbaz]

26 minutes ago, miguel87 said:

My pentax DSLR is lighter than my 2inch 32mm eyepiece!

Definitely the best intro to photography especially if you already have a DSLR.

If I had to give a specific recommendation I would get a skywatcher 200p explorer and  a HEQ5 mount. That comes out at about £1030 all brand new.

You've got a perfectly capable mount for started some astrophotography.

A good 8 inch aperture for seeing a huge range of DSO's.

And a very capable (if not quite as sharp as a refractor) planetary viewer.

Only my opinion tho.

Fair comments there. I thought a dslr was a lot heavier tbh, there you go. 

I also guess it depends on what the end game is going to be for the OP. 

Your solution above is a great one, no doubt there. My own idea was also worthwhile based on my own experiences using something which is maybe a little outside the conventional box of thinking, more EEVA tbh.

If the OP goes onto more serious astrophotography though, I would agree the HEQ/200p option wins out hands down.

Balls in your court @Scorpion Rob

Steve

[miguel87]

1 hour ago, bomberbaz said:

Fair comments there. I thought a dslr was a lot heavier tbh, there you go. 

I also guess it depends on what the end game is going to be for the OP. 

Your solution above is a great one, no doubt there. My own idea was also worthwhile based on my own experiences using something which is maybe a little outside the conventional box of thinking, more EEVA tbh.

If the OP goes onto more serious astrophotography though, I would agree the HEQ/200p option wins out hands down.

Balls in your court @Scorpion Rob

Steve

Yep absolutely.

Why its such a hard one to answer, quite a few solutions with various pros and cons really.

And if there is one thing I know nothing about, it is refractors!

Let us know what you decide 👍

[Scorpion Rob]

Thanks again guy`s.

 

I have been looking at this one? comments or thoughts

 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-250pds-neq6-pro-goto-telescope.html

[miguel87]

Nice telescope, I'm sure would give amazing results. Really good mount too.

My only minor criticism is that because it is designed for photography, it is a 'fast' telescope (f4 I think but could be wrong). This means you get a bit more blurring of stars/objects that are not in the middle of the field of view.

Having said that, my scope is f5, only slightly slower and it doesnt really bother me at all.

👍

EDIT: just checked and it is f4.7 which is not too bad in my opinion.

Yoi could go cheaper if you dont want GoTo but that's a personal preference.

Edited May 17, 2020 by miguel87

[bomberbaz]

36 minutes ago, Scorpion Rob said:

Thanks again guy`s.

 

I have been looking at this one? comments or thoughts

 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-250pds-neq6-pro-goto-telescope.html

£1000 budget though!  🤣

Seriously though, I have to say though it will be a cracking setup and cover all your goals as far as you have described. 

One thing though, if you live at the top of a mountain with little light pollution, I reckon you should be looking at a pier at some point with maybe even a roll off roof type shed further down the line. 

Your location sounds like an astronomers dream.

Steve

 

[tooth_dr]

1 hour ago, Scorpion Rob said:

Thanks again guy`s.

 

I have been looking at this one? comments or thoughts

 

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/skywatcher-explorer-250pds-neq6-pro-goto-telescope.html

Hi Rob

I currently use a 250 as my imaging scope.  The link is the PDS version, mine is an older blue tube model, that isnt optimised for imaging, but it does ok.  I also have the ED80 mentioned by @jambouk in his post.  For imaging the latter beats the 250 hands down for pure simplicity and the fact it just works perfectly.  Now I rarely look through a scope, but on the times I have done, the ED80 is underwhelming, but the 250PX isnt.  For imaging the 250PX is on the limit of the EQ6.

However you would pick up that set up for under £800 if you buy used.

 

Plenty of options above, but i confess mine will be biased towards imaging.

 

This follow may be useful - a sample of 30s images I took through the ED80 telescope, these are single frames, taken with a basic DSLR.  I would class this as beginners astro imaging.  Does that look like the sort of thing you would be interested in?  Ignore the oval border - I was trying to vaguely represent what visually could be seen through the scope in these images to some friends who were up at the house.

 

 

Adam

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by tooth_dr

[Scorpion Rob]

Hi Guy`s

Steve - yes it is a nice spot. I am a radio ham as well and its great from a radio point of view contacts all over the world very easy. lol

Adam -  Those are great pics ( In my humble opinion) Yes would like that myself but of moon, planets nebs etc as well as general looking around.

 

Thanks again for all your help and advice.

 

Very appreciated

[Erling G-P]

My suggestion would be much like Miguel's earlier:  A Skywatcher 200 PDS & HEQ5 Pro:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-200pds-heq5-pro.html

I got this exact combination in 2018 myself, with imaging as first priority, but also wanting to do visual observations.

With some compromises, it should tick all your boxes:

- Enough aperture for DSO observations

- Great views of Moon & planets - I've had some stunning views of the Moon, and seen Jupiter's GRS for the first time last year, even with the unfavorably low position of the planet.  Saturn has been amazing too.

- It can be used for AP

For DSO AP, you really need an EQ mount, which will pose some challenges for visual, especially with a Newtonian - unintuitive movement pattern, and the eyepiece can wind up in ackward positions.  The latter can be alleviated to some extent, by rotating the OTA within the tube rings.   With the mount having GOTO, there should be limited need to manually slewing it round, so minimizing the movement pattern issue.

For AP, many here will say the 200 PDS is too big for the mount. To some extent, they're right - it's quite a sail, so I can't image with it unless the wind is quiet (so if your mountain top location is windy, it may not be the best solution)

I've attached a couple of my own early images, to give you an idea of what a beginner should at the very least be able to achieve.  All are unguided, taken with an unmodded Nikon D7000, and consists of stacked 30-secs exposures.  Once you have the mount, you can always add more, smaller scopes for imaging, if you find the 200 too big - I have supplied with the relatively inexpensive 130 PDS for larger fields of view, and for use in conditions too windy for the 200.  M27 & M81 are cropped, while M42 & M31 are the full field of a 'crop-sensor' on a 200 PDS.

Remember also to budget with extra eyepieces, power supply for the mount, adaptors for the camera & a coma corrector for AP (I use Skywatcher's 0.9 CC myself)