Budget purchase advice for beginner

[Aftoforakias]

Greetings to the whole forum!

     Two years ago I was gifted my very first reflector telescope (Celestron AstroMaster 130EQ). It is still in the vanilla setup:

Standard tripod (a little shaky but in the future I am planning for a replacement and/or some rubber padding)

Standard two eyepieces that came in the package (10mm and 20mm)

Standard red dot finder that came in the package

     I have to admit I have had loads of fun using it and, since I have moved in a rural area where the light pollution is minimal to none (as I see it, if you can see the milky way line, then it is good!), it became even better.

I managed to peek at the rings of Saturn and the phases of Venus and I could go on forever with my excitement!

     Now, I am interested in enhancing my experience step by step, and for starters I have concluded that I need a collimation eyepiece and a barlow eyepiece.

     I have found the following:

Omegon Deluxe Collimation Eyepiece for around 30 euros

Orion 3X, Tri-Mag 1.25" Barlow lens for around 50 euros

It is a budget upgrade, I know, but I still consider myself as a beginner and I want to take it one step at a time.

My main goal is to enhance my experience a little bit, like for example seeing some color in the rings of Saturn or something similar.

    So, are these two eyepieces worth their money for what they do? Do you have any alternatives to propose? Any info would be welcome.

Thanks in advance and greetings,

Spyros

Edited May 11, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[wookie1965]

A collimating eyepiece as you say is really for checking your mirrors are aligned in your reflector scope. 30 euros is not a bad price. 

Dont get a 3x Barlow have too much power if you are dead set on one get a 2x one but in my opinion another eyepiece or two would be better say a 15mm and 30/32 mm so you will have a good low power eyepiece to scan the sky and the 15mm is a good medium eyepiece. 

[Aftoforakias]

Hey wookie1965, thanks for the quick reply!

Here are some clarifications about my inquiries:

About the collimation eyepiece: I have already read what it is for, and I am sure need one since I move the telescope around a lot and have already noticed some changes especially when trying to focus on far away objects using my 10mm. Will this particular one help me align both my mirrors?

About the barlow eyepiece: my main goal is to gain more magnification compared to what I already have. I understand your stating that a 3x Barlow may be too much, but won't the 15mm and 30/32mm that you suggest provide less magnification than my already 10mm one?

Spyros

Edited May 11, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[Timebandit]

 

 

Hello . If I was you I would not get the Barlow , but a couple of decent eyepieces. Certainly a step up in quality from your supplied eyepieces, Would be some BST Starguiders . lots of people have used these on SGL with good feedback and they are sensible money. And even better value purchased used . I hope this helps

 

 

[bomberbaz]

Had to double check the specs for you scope, I understand you wanting a barlow and me being a fan of them, agree it's a good option, but at x2, NOT x3.

My idea, get a bst starguider at 8mm, thats x81 magnification. With a barlow that over x160. Thats high power covered for your scope in most cases.

It also means your 20mm eyepiece will barlow to 10mm. I know you have a 10mm but don't you find it easier looking through the 20mm. If so, then use the 20mm barlowed, life will be easier. 

Keep the 10mm though, because barlowed you get 5mm = x130, a mid/high power for your scope.

I hope all this makes sense but if not see below the calculations:

Existing 20mm = x33  This is your finder eyepiece for help locating your target object.

10mm (20mm barlowed) = x65  Mid power

8mm = x81 Mid power

Existing 10mm barlowed to 5mm = x130 mid/high power

4mm (barlowed 8mm) = 163 high power,  planetary use.

Well that's my take on it. No one way is correct. But get a decent option,, the cheaper ones can end up ruining your viewing experience. I have not tried the ES focal extender https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/explore-scientific-2x-3x-5x-barlow-focal-extender-125.html

However I have read good things, these seem like a worthwhile purchase to hold for the future.

TBH I keep thinkiing about getting one of these to replace my shorty barlow, the ES do look good.

Steve

[Aftoforakias]

On 09/05/2020 at 01:44, bomberbaz said:

I hope all this makes sense but if not see below the calculations:

Well, if I saw your post two years ago nothing would make sense. Now it totally does. Thanks for your clarifications.

So, according to your proposed setup with my existing eyepieces, my max. magnification will be around x130 which would be a bit tough to look at using my shallow 10mm combined with a x2 barlow.

I also HAVE to believe that the new 8mm I'm going to buy will be a little easier to look through than my 10mm one which at times is a real pain.

Makes sense because although I have read that the maximum useful magnification I can squeeze out of my telescope is around x300,

everyone claims not to try more than x200 as it would be a waste of money for useless results..

Spyros

Edited May 11, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[bomberbaz]

Most very high magnification is limited morre by air quality and the atmosphere.   The higher you go the more the view deteriorates.  The moon is an exception to this.  I have been up to x240 and its still good.   

[JOC]

On 08/05/2020 at 13:39, Aftoforakias said:

seeing some color in the rings of Saturn or something similar.

I would commend this thread if you haven't already seen it - just look at the piccies on the first page even if you don't read further into it:

Colour in anything is unlikely with what you have unless you are looking at the coloured stars that do exist out there.

[Aftoforakias]

51 minutes ago, JOC said:

Colour in anything is unlikely with what you have unless you are looking at the coloured stars that do exist out there.

You are right to point this out and thank you. It really was an interesting read!

When I started getting into all this some years ago I did have the misconception that I would see stuff like they appear in these nice cgi documentaries but, trust me, not anymore.

My post was a little vague and probably also seemed a bit naive but it was due to my lack of explanation about what I was aiming for.

I will try to clarify my goal by attaching two images.

The first is the approximate illustration of how I view Saturn at the moment, and the second is more or less how I would like to view it (or even better if possible but I don't think so with my current instruments).

I probably used the word color in the wrong context.

Thanks again for trying to land me to reality!

Spyros

Edited May 11, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[JOC]

On 08/05/2020 at 13:39, Aftoforakias said:

AstroMaster 130EQ

FWIW with my 8" Sywatcher Dobsonian my view of Saturn is only marginally better than your current view.  Maybe just a tad larger depending on eyepiece in use, but still essentially a white circle a gap and a loop in the white (rather than dirty yellow of the second image) colour of your own approximation.  Certainly no-where like the second image.   I would say within 10% of your own approximate image and probably 90% away from the second one.  I can also only just about see two bands on Jupiter.

[ollypenrice]

In your post you describe your scope as a refractor when it's a reflector.  Just a typo I guess.

Saturn has always had a warmish yellow-orange colour to my eye, in any instrument I've ever used.  The image quality of your second example should be within the grasp of a well-collimated 130mm reflector, though, with a decent eyepiece.

Olly

[Erling G-P]

3 hours ago, JOC said:

FWIW with my 8" Sywatcher Dobsonian my view of Saturn is only marginally better than your current view.  Maybe just a tad larger depending on eyepiece in use, but still essentially a white circle a gap and a loop in the white (rather than dirty yellow of the second image) colour of your own approximation.  Certainly no-where like the second image.   I would say within 10% of your own approximate image and probably 90% away from the second one.  I can also only just about see two bands on Jupiter.

I have seen it slightly better than the 2nd image in my 8" SW 200 PDS last summer, when it was in an unfavorably low position.  Used an ADC (Atmospheric Dispersion Corrector) to improve the view.  Image was 'liquid' due to turbulence or air currents, so details were drifting in and out of view.  I could see the Cassini Division clearly in the rings, that the inner ring was considerably brighter than the outer, and that the rings were grey in colour, while the planet was a distinct yellowish-brown, with some cloud bands just visible. In addition a couple of moons, the biggest being Titan I would assume.  It's by far the best I have seen it 'live', having only seen it through my old 60mm refractor from my teens (late '70s) before, where it was just a featureless 'planet with ears'.  Can't wait for it to climb higher in the sky over the coming years, to get a better view

[Aftoforakias]

5 hours ago, ollypenrice said:

In your post you describe your scope as a refractor when it's a reflector.  Just a typo I guess.

Saturn has always had a warmish yellow-orange colour to my eye, in any instrument I've ever used.  The image quality of your second example should be within the grasp of a well-collimated 130mm reflector, though, with a decent eyepiece.

Olly

Yes you are right! Already edited. Thanks for your input.

I really hope none of the previous answers of all the others focused on that!

Spyros

Edited May 11, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[Dr Strange]

The collimating EP will help you with collimation. So that is a good thing to have. And as others have noted a 3x Barlow is way too much magnification increase. Look for a 2x one instead. Baader makes a good product so this may be what you are looking for and may get you close to getting both items:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlow-eyepieces/baader-classic-q-225x-barlow.html

[Aftoforakias]

Hey all,

I just wanted to let everyone know I opted for the following two purchases:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/explore-scientific-2x-3x-5x-barlow-focal-extender-125.html (the x2)

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/other-collimation-tools/astro-essentials-cheshire-collimating-eyepiece.html

Already ordered and awaiting their arrival, hopefully end of this week or start of the next one.

The barlow went a little over my budget but I did not tell my wife so everything is good >)

(Plus I consider buying a new telescope sometime in the future so I considered the eyepiece as an "investment".)

Thank you all for your helpful input. Hopefully with a well collimated telescope and the new eyepiece addition combined with good night conditions in rural Greece during the summer I will get some nice results.

I will let you know if you are interested.

I appreciate all your help,

Spyros

Edited May 12, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[wookie1965]

Why your waiting read up on collimation, Astrobaby`s is very good.

http://www.astro-baby.com/astrobaby/help/collimation-guide-newtonian-reflector/

I have used this one in conjunction with astrobaby`s it makes it simple.

 http://www.schlatter.org/Dad/Astronomy/collimate.htm

[Aftoforakias]

Thanks wookie!

I have already printed out two similar guides on collimating but yours seems more comprehensible and comprehensive.

I will have a look at it tonight.

Needless to say that the guides I’ve read so far were not bad, but I reached a point where I couldn’t understand some aspect because I was still lacking the collimating tool.

One of the guides I found (can’t find the link now-have it at home on paper-will post it when I find it) even had instructions on how to collimate without a specialized tool at all!

addition: I just realized my primary mirror lacks a center spot so even more work for me... 😕

Spyros

Edited May 12, 2020 by Aftoforakias

[bomberbaz]

3 hours ago, Aftoforakias said:

Thanks wookie!

I have already printed out two similar guides on collimating but yours seems more comprehensible and comprehensive.

I will have a look at it tonight.

Needless to say that the guides I’ve read so far were not bad, but I reached a point where I couldn’t understand some aspect because I was still lacking the collimating tool.

One of the guides I found (can’t find the link now-have it at home on paper-will post it when I find it) even had instructions on how to collimate without a specialized tool at all!

addition: I just realized my primary mirror lacks a center spot so even more work for me... 😕

Spyros

Simple guide here to spotting your mirror, it's not hard.

https://garyseronik.com/centre-dotting-your-scopes-primary-mirror/

[Aftoforakias]

Hey Steve thanks for the guide.

Already printed it and still waiting for my collimator eyepiece.. (any day now, hopefully)

Spyros