AC power supply

[msacco]

Hi, not really a DIY, but feels like the right place to ask, I'm using a powerpole distribution like this:

This distribution receives a 12V input and outputs 12V from each connector.
For my battery field I have a step up converter which I'm using to output steady 13V and that connects to the powerpole.
As far as I know, for DC at least the longer the cable the more the voltage will drop, I'd like to get an AC power supply for this to supply as 12V input with around 10-12A and then output from that to each component.

The more common power supplies are 12V, something like this for example:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32983648084.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.11dd1c2ds10r5z&algo_pvid=cc511b48-c859-4e4d-8418-9abd520c6c41&algo_expid=cc511b48-c859-4e4d-8418-9abd520c6c41-1&btsid=0b0a187b15863818112286122ef63b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

Though I probably use much less, I'd like to get around 10-12A AC power supply, the question is whether a 12V will surely be enough, or should I get a 13.8V power supply similar to this:https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32835483104.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.f7c62ca28pELZh&algo_pvid=83a50136-79bf-40f8-8253-20031772e254&algo_expid=83a50136-79bf-40f8-8253-20031772e254-1&btsid=0b0a01f815863819068803792e5431&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_

All my gear can work with 13.8V, but could probably work with 12V or slightly less, but I don't know if the 12V will give me a steady 12V for each connector, or could drop due to high load.

Thanks

[michael8554]

You'll see in the spec for the 12V unit that the output voltage is adjustable, so I imagine 13V or more is achievable.

And l see the 13.8V unit is also a LED power supply like the 12V, so I imagine they are identical Chinese units under the hood.

These are Switch Mode power supplies which can put interference on your images.

You might prefer a Linear power supply like this 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUSION-Fusion-100W-13-8V-Power-Supply-FS-PS101/352577799099?epid=1142254228&hash=item52174643bb%3Ag%3ApmcAAOSw2x1c8x3c&LH_ItemCondition=3

Add up the current required for all your kit, add 50% so you don't run flat out, and buy one with that current rating.

Michael

[symmetal]

I use switch mode supplies and have no issues with any more noise being seen on camera outputs compared to using 12V batteries. It's a long standing debate about switch mode vs linear but it's up to you. Many people here on SGL do use switch mode supplies for their imaging rigs.

I buy known reputable brand power supplies like this one which has the specification you want. The data sheet for this one does say the adjustment range is from 10.2V - 13.8V which would be fine for you. The load regulation is +/- 0.5% from 0 to 100% rated current so the output voltage will only vary by +/- 60mV from 0 to 12.5A load so no problems there. They are still made in China, so the one you listed is most likely a similar specification but no guarantee of course.

Alan

[michael8554]

8 hours ago, symmetal said:

I use switch mode supplies and have no issues with any more noise being seen on camera outputs compared to using 12V batteries

I do too, but some imagers have visual evidence, so it was only fair I mentioned it. 

The Switch Mode supplies are relatively imexpensive so probably worth a punt. 

Michael 

Edited April 9, 2020 by michael8554

[msacco]

9 hours ago, michael8554 said:

You'll see in the spec for the 12V unit that the output voltage is adjustable, so I imagine 13V or more is achievable.

And l see the 13.8V unit is also a LED power supply like the 12V, so I imagine they are identical Chinese units under the hood.

These are Switch Mode power supplies which can put interference on your images.

You might prefer a Linear power supply like this 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUSION-Fusion-100W-13-8V-Power-Supply-FS-PS101/352577799099?epid=1142254228&hash=item52174643bb%3Ag%3ApmcAAOSw2x1c8x3c&LH_ItemCondition=3

Add up the current required for all your kit, add 50% so you don't run flat out, and buy one with that current rating.

Michael

 

8 hours ago, symmetal said:

I use switch mode supplies and have no issues with any more noise being seen on camera outputs compared to using 12V batteries. It's a long standing debate about switch mode vs linear but it's up to you. Many people here on SGL do use switch mode supplies for their imaging rigs.

I buy known reputable brand power supplies like this one which has the specification you want. The data sheet for this one does say the adjustment range is from 10.2V - 13.8V which would be fine for you. The load regulation is +/- 0.5% from 0 to 100% rated current so the output voltage will only vary by +/- 60mV from 0 to 12.5A load so no problems there. They are still made in China, so the one you listed is most likely a similar specification but no guarantee of course.

Alan

 

4 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

I do too, but some imagers have visual evidence, so it was only fair I mentioned it. 

The Switch Mode supplies are cheap so probably worth a punt. 

Michael 

I love how it's always worth asking here about stuff like that, I had no idea about it, I've searched, but couldn't find visual evidence for that, would it be possible to send?
It's also good to know that the switch mode power supply voltage can be adjusted, that would really make things much more simpler.

Now as for a switch mode vs linear PSU.....That's a tough one, I want this not for an observatory, but just when I image from my garden, which is usually not the case. I usually drive to a dark site, but do sometimes find myself imaging from the garden.
As you mentioned as well, I also want to get something with enough current that far exceeds mine. My whole rig probably uses a MAXIMUM of 6A(probably 3A on avg), so I still want to get around 10-15A to be on the safe side with future upgrades etc.

Linear PSU seems rather expensive though, and only seems to have a rather low amp(depends on price ofc) which is not really future proof.
Since I'll also usually won't use it, I don't really feel like spending a lot of money on that. It will be used for bortle 6 either way, so I'm not sure how crucial slightly more noise would make. But I'll wait for the visual evidence to decide

As for the meanwell switch, I actually have another meanwell regulator for my DC battery to regulate to voltage there, I might get that.

Thanks a lot for the information, it's really helpful!

[stash_old]

I use a HAM radio power supply ,used for over 3yrs without missing a beat (famous last words). They have all the grunt and provide the "cleanest" supply.

Plus it should provide a "common ground" if you power everything from it IMO.

Yes you pay a bit more but you do get what you pay for !  example of Ham type power  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/402024441231?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=402024441231&targetid=876737317573&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046652&poi=&campaignid=9794911380&mkgroupid=101625064764&rlsatarget=pla-876737317573&abcId=1139126&merchantid=138799779&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7v0BRDOARIsAGh37ipWoLZfd7Pw1BzKQ6LqvwHyG9wPNLHJYY4wtso2c-Mq-RZTdeD8e5oaAh0oEALw_wcB 

[msacco]

12 minutes ago, stash_old said:

I use a HAM radio power supply ,used for over 3yrs without missing a beat (famous last words). They have all the grunt and provide the "cleanest" supply.

Plus it should provide a "common ground" if you power everything from it IMO.

Yes you pay a bit more but you do get what you pay for !  example of Ham type power  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/402024441231?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=710-134428-41853-0&mkcid=2&itemid=402024441231&targetid=876737317573&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9046652&poi=&campaignid=9794911380&mkgroupid=101625064764&rlsatarget=pla-876737317573&abcId=1139126&merchantid=138799779&gclid=Cj0KCQjwj7v0BRDOARIsAGh37ipWoLZfd7Pw1BzKQ6LqvwHyG9wPNLHJYY4wtso2c-Mq-RZTdeD8e5oaAh0oEALw_wcB 

Thanks, but I won't pay that much for it, there are plenty of other cheaper solutions other than a PSU I could go for that price 

Edited April 9, 2020 by msacco

[james_screech]

10 hours ago, michael8554 said:

You'll see in the spec for the 12V unit that the output voltage is adjustable, so I imagine 13V or more is achievable.

And l see the 13.8V unit is also a LED power supply like the 12V, so I imagine they are identical Chinese units under the hood.

These are Switch Mode power supplies which can put interference on your images.

You might prefer a Linear power supply like this 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUSION-Fusion-100W-13-8V-Power-Supply-FS-PS101/352577799099?epid=1142254228&hash=item52174643bb%3Ag%3ApmcAAOSw2x1c8x3c&LH_ItemCondition=3

Add up the current required for all your kit, add 50% so you don't run flat out, and buy one with that current rating.

Michael

I've been using one of these Fusion power supplies for 5+ years without a problem, I would highly recommend it.

 

James

[msacco]

1 minute ago, james_screech said:

I've been using one of these Fusion power supplies for 5+ years without a problem, I would highly recommend it.

 

James

I have 2 problems with this, the first one is that it simply doesn't ship to my country, so that's quite an issue...
The second is that 100W at 13.8V is less than 8A, which is not really what I'm looking for.

[james_screech]

4 minutes ago, msacco said:

I have 2 problems with this, the first one is that it simply doesn't ship to my country, so that's quite an issue...
The second is that 100W at 13.8V is less than 8A, which is not really what I'm looking for.

They are available on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017KOTXFG/?coliid=I16M2T305Y37IT&colid=YK0CRQPPZ23D&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I got mine from a radio control model shop web site, can't remember which one. I think they also do higher power versions as well. 

[msacco]

Just now, james_screech said:

They are available on Amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B017KOTXFG/?coliid=I16M2T305Y37IT&colid=YK0CRQPPZ23D&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

I got mine from a radio control model shop web site, can't remember which one. I think they also do higher power versions as well. 

They don't ship as well, even if they were, the total price would probably be around the 40 pounds, no way I'd pay that much ^^

[michael8554]

2 hours ago, msacco said:

have 2 problems with this, the first one is that it simply doesn't ship to my country, so that's quite an issue...
The second is that 100W at 13.8V is less than 8A, which is not really what I'm looking for.

That was an example, I've no idea of your amperage requirement have I.

I said to add up your current and add 50%

Why don't you search for  a XX Amp Mains Linear Power Supply in your country? 

 

 

 

 

Michael 

[msacco]

17 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

That was an example, I've no idea of your amperage requirement have I.

I said to add up your current and add 50%

Why don't you search for  a XX Amp Mains Linear Power Supply in your country? 

 

 

 

 

Michael 

Cause that would end up being 400% the actual price from aliexpress/ebay 😂

[Skipper Billy]

There is a strong ethos in this group of helping each other and saying thank you afterwards.

An expectation of mind reading and lack of common manners is often counterproductive long term.

Just saying.

[msacco]

3 minutes ago, Skipper Billy said:

There is a strong ethos in this group of helping each other and saying thank you afterwards.

An expectation of mind reading and lack of common manners is often counterproductive long term.

Just saying.

?

"Thanks a lot for the information, it's really helpful!"

"Thanks, but I won't pay that much for it, there are plenty of other cheaper solutions other than a PSU I could go for that price "

[symmetal]

Just to satisfy my curiosity but is the Fusion PS-101 as mentioned several times in the thread actually a linear supply. It seems physically very small for a linear, and reviews on ebay state than it's 'light weight' and 'causes interference on AM and SSB', neither of which would normally be attributes applied to a linear supply. I tried searching on the web but couldn't find any reference to what type of supply it is. Its low price implies switch mode but I'm happy to be proved wrong. 😁

Cheaper switch modes of a more basic design will generally cause more interference than well designed, more expensive ones.

In msacco's defence, he did state a 10-12A power supply in his first post. 

Alan

[msacco]

8 minutes ago, symmetal said:

Just to satisfy my curiosity but is the Fusion PS-101 as mentioned several times in the thread actually a linear supply. It seems physically very small for a linear, and reviews on ebay state than it's 'light weight' and 'causes interference on AM and SSB', neither of which would normally be attributes applied to a linear supply. I tried searching on the web but couldn't find any reference to what type of supply it is. Its low price implies switch mode but I'm happy to be proved wrong. 😁

Cheaper switch modes of a more basic design will generally cause more interference than well designed, more expensive ones.

In msacco's defence, he did state a 10-12A power supply in his first post. 

Alan

Interesting, thanks for sharing this information.

I'm wondering, are you familiar with the visual evidence Michael was referring to?
Again, this is just for my garden and not a real observatory etc, and I usually won't image from there, so I think the additional money for a linear PSU wouldn't make a huge difference and that I should probably spend it on other equipments which could be more useful.

Currently I think I'll just get the Meanwell switch mode, sounds like it would do the job I need just fine

[symmetal]

17 minutes ago, msacco said:

Interesting, thanks for sharing this information.

I'm wondering, are you familiar with the visual evidence Michael was referring to?
Again, this is just for my garden and not a real observatory etc, and I usually won't image from there, so I think the additional money for a linear PSU wouldn't make a huge difference and that I should probably spend it on other equipments which could be more useful.

Currently I think I'll just get the Meanwell switch mode, sounds like it would do the job I need just fine

I don't recall seeing any actual imaging evidence regarding switch mode vs linear. Most CMOS cameras are powered via the 5V USB from PC or hub anyway, which would have substantial noise on it, so noise on the 12V which in these, mainly power just the cooling doesn't matter. I imagine the cameras have good filtering on their supply inputs to mitigate power noise anyway. The 071 which you have is powered via USB without cooling if there is no 12V. With the 12V connected it will take power from that for the camera as well as the cooling.

When I did my own test a couple of years ago using an Atik CCD camera which is only powered by 12V I could detect no difference in noise on the output of the camera when powered from the Mean Well switch mode compared to a 12V leisure battery so from then on I've used switch mode supplies. On my imaging rigs with integral mini PCs, hubs and dew controllers etc., I incorporate LC filters on the 12V distribution PCB I made just to avoid noise generated by the PC etc. getting back on to the main 12V supply. Probably overkill but costs little extra. 

I also have a Ham radio switch mode supply as mentioned by stash_old but have used Mean Well on my rigs.

If you can get the Mean Well supply cheaply, then as you say it would be fine. Famous last words. 😁

Alan

[msacco]

7 minutes ago, symmetal said:

I don't recall seeing any actual imaging evidence regarding switch mode vs linear. Most CMOS cameras are powered via the 5V USB from PC or hub anyway, which would have substantial noise on it, so noise on the 12V which in these, mainly power just the cooling doesn't matter. I imagine the cameras have good filtering on their supply inputs to mitigate power noise anyway. The 071 which you have is powered via USB without cooling if there is no 12V. With the 12V connected it will take power from that for the camera as well as the cooling.

When I did my own test a couple of years ago using an Atik CCD camera which is only powered by 12V I could detect no difference in noise on the output of the camera when powered from the Mean Well switch mode compared to a 12V leisure battery so from then on I've used switch mode supplies. On my imaging rigs with integral mini PCs, hubs and dew controllers etc., I incorporate LC filters on the 12V distribution PCB I made just to avoid noise generated by the PC etc. getting back on to the main 12V supply. Probably overkill but costs little extra. 

I also have a Ham radio switch mode supply as mentioned by stash_old but have used Mean Well on my rigs.

If you can get the Mean Well supply cheaply, then as you say it would be fine. Famous last words. 😁

Alan

Awesome and detailed answer, thanks!

As I said above, I think I'm pretty set with the Meanwell and I'll probably just get it, if anyone has any arguments that would stop me from doing so, please let me know 😁

[michael8554]

Just to reply to some of the suggestions. 

I use Switch mode PSUs, and others have chipped in with their success with those, so let's discount the RF interference issue. 

The Fusion unit may well be Switch Mode, the spec is vague, I quickly picked it as an example of Linear based on the appearance. 

I've always assumed Israel to be a modern hitech country, makes its own Mach 2 fighters, surely they have LED lighting, so there should be a local source of a suitable LED power supply, no need to go to AliExpress - perhaps they don't have Google........? 

Michael 

 

 

 

[msacco]

7 minutes ago, michael8554 said:

Just to reply to some of the suggestions. 

I use Switch mode PSUs, and others have chipped in with their success with those, so let's discount the RF interference issue. 

The Fusion unit may well be Switch Mode, the spec is vague, I quickly picked it as an example of Linear based on the appearance. 

I've always assumed Israel to be a modern hitech country, makes its own Mach 2 fighters, surely they have LED lighting, so there should be a local source of a suitable LED power supply, no need to go to AliExpress - perhaps they don't have Google........? 

Michael 

 

 

 

We do have a very developed hi-tech industry here, but relatively I'd say the prices here are very high in most fields.

Also, I don't live in a very central area, which means the shops here are smaller, that means that the chances of having the product I need is lower, and the smaller the shop is, the prices are usually higher.

This is why I'd rather buy something on ebay/aliexpress unless I need it fast. For example, a 12V 10A power supply would cost here around $22, a 12V 15A would cost $38.
For some products the margin is greater, for some it's not all that big. But it's surely cheaper in 99% of the times. Even if I don't save much necessarily in a single purchase, in the long term since I do purchase a lot, that does save up a lot of money.