M81 & M82

[CaptainShiznit]

Getting really disheartened with the street light sitting behind my garden interfering with my hard earned data. I use an IDAS D2 LPS filter but that only seems to cut down on general skyglow. M81/82 were high in the sky last night and I sat up until 4am imaging them only to have seemingly unusable data thanks to the horrible gradients. Admittedly there was a full moon which probably contributed but disheartening none-the-less. I might flock my scope as my next move just to try and cut down on the street lamp's light entering the top of my tube but other than that I'm at a bit of a loss on how to proceed. I've complained to the council asking for some kind of shield to be fitted (I said light was entering back bedroom) but I've had nothing back. It's a bit high to DIY anything up but willing to hear suggestions.

Anyway, I thought I'd make my data available to see if anyone had any magic wands to wave.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1YJZWYEke3h3JvqSbc13F0IwRJDmWx7bU

90s subs @ISO800 / 50 Bias, 30 Flats, 20 Darks / Gear in signature

[Aramcheck]

I've thought about fitting something like a light weight 'dew shield' to the front of the newt to cut down stray light. Also light leaks in from around the mirror end on my SW 130 & 200 dps, so a cap or bag over the end might be an idea.

Liverpool probably has a LED street lighting replacement program... this may result in a small reduction in skyglow(*) or an increase depending on the luminare specification, but as LEDs are more directional it should mean than less light spills out into gardens. If you don't hear back about shielding, contact your local councilor(s) & complain... BTW Some residents also complain about the fact that the new LED lights don't light up their front garden / door.

Could you shield the street light with a screen? (I'm thinking of doing this with the neighour's kitchen light that's on all evening).

Will have a play with your data tomorrow...

Cheers
Ivor

PS: (*) A study in Tucson reported a likely reduction of 7% from their LED program & US DOE modelling also suggests a modest reduction.

[CaptainShiznit]

1 hour ago, Aramcheck said:

I've thought about fitting something like a light weight 'dew shield' to the front of the newt to cut down stray light. Also light leaks in from around the mirror end on my SW 130 & 200 dps, so a cap or bag over the end might be an idea.l.

Could you shield the street light with a screen? (I'm thinking of doing this with the neighour's kitchen light that's on all evening).

I'm trying to think of the best way to shield the light out. It would be more like something at ground level to just keep my scope in the 'shade' I think but not sure how to go about it. The dew shield idea could be a good alternative to flocking I could try first.

I'm never sure if the lights are LED or not. Some around here are orange which are obviously the old sodium vapour type, and some (including the one in question) are white lights - still not 100% sure it's LED. If I wasn't paranoid about electric shocks I'd just open it up and unplug the sod 😅

[Aramcheck]

Just had a look at one of your light frames & data looks good to me! Will have a proper go after work...

Could you do me a favour & post (or send me) a pic of your street light? (If it luminaire bit is flatish & rectangular it's an LED.)

Cheers
Ivor

[CaptainShiznit]

2 hours ago, Aramcheck said:

Just had a look at one of your light frames & data looks good to me! Will have a proper go after work...

Could you do me a favour & post (or send me) a pic of your street light? (If it luminaire bit is flatish & rectangular it's an LED.)

Cheers
Ivor

Cheers Ivor. As requested:

[Owmuchonomy]

Rather than ask the council for shielding you could ask them to set it to automatically go off at a certain time.  The new LED streetlights in our village go off at midnight, back on again at 5am.  It's a compromise but one that is easy for the authorities to implement.

[CaptainShiznit]

5 minutes ago, Owmuchonomy said:

Rather than ask the council for shielding you could ask them to set it to automatically go off at a certain time.  The new LED streetlights in our village go off at midnight, back on again at 5am.  It's a compromise but one that is easy for the authorities to implement.

That would certainly be helpful. I'll see what they say if they respond, cheers!

[Aramcheck]

Doesn't look like a LED lamp to me... Think I may have spoke too soon about the data too. Did a quick stack but no processing yet. Lo-Res image attached...

[CaptainShiznit]

44 minutes ago, Aramcheck said:

Doesn't look like a LED lamp to me... Think I may have spoke too soon about the data too. Did a quick stack but no processing yet. Lo-Res image attached...

😩

[Philter]

They changed most of the street lights around by me to LEDs at the end of 2018 and while they are white and seem brighter they don't appear to throw the light above the fitting. You could see straight away that the tops of houses were no longer directly lit up and of course most of the neighbours were complaining about it being too dark. There used to be a page on the council website with the areas and dates for the LED street lighting rollout but it seems to have been removed.

I haven't done enough imaging (certainly in the last year) to say what kind of impact they've had but I did buy an IDAS D2 to hopefully help with LED lights.

[Aramcheck]

Had a few attempts at processing - this is the best I've got so far... Cropped quite a bit.
I'm fairly confident your street light hasn't been converted yet (which may be why they're stalling on fitting a shield?). A Freedom of Information request from 2018 said that Liverpool were due to complete all street lights by 2025. Worth googling Liverpool LED street lighting - several newspaper articles with people complaining areas are too dark.
Cheers
Ivor

[CaptainShiznit]

3 hours ago, Aramcheck said:

Had a few attempts at processing - this is the best I've got so far... Cropped quite a bit.
I'm fairly confident your street light hasn't been converted yet (which may be why they're stalling on fitting a shield?). A Freedom of Information request from 2018 said that Liverpool were due to complete all street lights by 2025. Worth googling Liverpool LED street lighting - several newspaper articles with people complaining areas are too dark.
Cheers
Ivor

Cheers Ivor. That looks slightly better than where I got to before I gave up. I'll give it another look. It's a shame to have to crop so aggressively but I don't think there's another option.

I'm actually under Knowsley council where I live rather than Liverpool. There's a recent article I came across today stating that they were replaced very recently but not with LEDs (maybe with the white light ones such as mine) but they're now considering replacing them again with LEDs. Link below.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/merseyside-council-set-spend-millions-17846280

Thanks again 😊

[alacant]

7 hours ago, CaptainShiznit said:

shame to have to crop

Hi

Sorry to hear about yet another case of excessive street lighting.

Anyway, perhaps no need to crop so much. I had a go at the background in Siril and GIMP but the .jpg doesn't have much to go on. I'm sure that with the linear image, you'd fare better.

I sincerely hope that you succeed in getting that light removed.

Good luck and HTH.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by alacant

[Aramcheck]

@alacant Thanks for the Siril tip/link! - I'm very impressed with the result you got! I tried several combinations of DBE & ABE in Pixinsight & couldn't get rid of the gradient completely.

Cheers
Ivor

[CaptainShiznit]

44 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi

Sorry to hear about yet another case of excessive street lighting.

Anyway, perhaps no need to crop so much. I had a go at the background in Siril and GIMP but the .jpg doesn't have much to go on. I'm sure that with the linear image, you'd fare better.

I sincerely hope that you succeed in getting that light removed.

Good luck and HTH.

 

Outstanding job with free software. I've never heard of Siril but the website has me interested for sure. Gonna have to give it a whirl now. Thanks alacant.

[Aramcheck]

@alacant - I'd be grateful for any pointers on the process you used!
I've attached a FIT file with the (slightly cropped) full stack.

int01_crop.zip

[alacant]

3 hours ago, Aramcheck said:

process you used

Hi

For this one, I used StarTools. It's the quickest and best I know.  AutoDev - bin -crop - wipe - Decon - colour - grain remove. 

In siril it's: crop - asinh transform - histogram transform - background extraction - colour calibration 

 

 

It's a nice image but there's not much data to be able to overcome the pollution gradient. Take more frames and you'd begin to see detail beyond that here I'm sure. Keep taking the snaps...

HTH.

Edited March 13, 2020 by alacant

[assouptro]

Aye Aye Captain!

I feel your pain with light pollution, I suffered for years with my neighbours who feel it necessary to have lights on in their gardens with dawn to dusk sensors! I eventually approached them and they allowed me to replace their lights with something more directional which has helped even though they still want their gardens and sheds lit up!

I am by no means an expert at processing but thought I'd have a go at it   

I just threw your info into Astro pixel processor, then removed light pollution, saved it then opened in photoshop for a basic levels and curves also cropped it a bit.

It just needs more data, and you need a catapult!!

Cheers 

Bryan

[CaptainShiznit]

4 hours ago, assouptro said:

Aye Aye Captain!

I feel your pain with light pollution, I suffered for years with my neighbours who feel it necessary to have lights on in their gardens with dawn to dusk sensors! I eventually approached them and they allowed me to replace their lights with something more directional which has helped even though they still want their gardens and sheds lit up!

I am by no means an expert at processing but thought I'd have a go at it   

I just threw your info into Astro pixel processor, then removed light pollution, saved it then opened in photoshop for a basic levels and curves also cropped it a bit.

It just needs more data, and you need a catapult!!

Cheers 

Bryan

Wow. Astro pixel processor is now also on my list of software to try. I had previously only used gradient Xterminator and action sets in Photoshop to try and remove light pollution but they get nowhere near these kinds of results.

Really appreciate the insight!

[assouptro]

3 hours ago, CaptainShiznit said:

Wow. Astro pixel processor is now also on my list of software to try. I had previously only used gradient Xterminator and action sets in Photoshop to try and remove light pollution but they get nowhere near these kinds of results.

Really appreciate the insight!

I have been playing about at this hobby for 10 or more years, I too have relied on actions (Noels and Annies) it’s only when I bought a second hand Atik 460 that had some column defects that I started to look for a solution. 

APP seemed like it might help, and it isn’t very expensive (also I think there was a trial period)

well it did help, and my imaging has definitely changed up a gear! Just a shame the weather won’t allow me to play!! 
In a nutshell, APP is good and once learned really quite easy! 
 

Cheers

Bryan 

[Aramcheck]

Thanks @assouptro - I'm impressed with APP's light pollution reduction. Just downloaded a trial version & had a go with it. The process is similar to DBE in Pixinsight, but was a lot more effective at reducing the gradient!
 

Thanks!
Ivor