Imaging mini PC advice

[choochoo_baloo]

After a failing laptop and wanting to take a step closer to remote operation, I've decided to buy a mini PC to attach to and thus ride around with the scopes themselves.

What models do others use. My thoughts so far:

1) For build quality and stability INtel NUCs

2) Small size: Intel compute stick

2) Bang for buck inc. a beefy WiFi antenna: Minix Neo

Any suggestions appreciated.

Edited August 31, 2019 by choochoo_baloo

[Scooot]

What about a ZWO Asiair https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/zwo-asiair

 

[freiform]

It is for controlling the hardware only, not processing or other CPU-heavy tasks? Also, are you set on a framework (ASCOM or INDI) and with it on a operating system?

 

Sven

 

[Astro-Geek]

I've just gone through this decision making process too.

I wanted to standardise to a dedicated scope mounted unit to enable AP and scope remote control and initially tried my existing notebooks and Android tablets.  Without a dome or converted shed, I found these tricky to support and use adjacent to the scope (in the garden).

I've also just tried the Raspberry Pi method with Stellarmate software, remotely controlled by PCs and Tablets.  (I had initially considered the ASIair, but that was restricted to just ZWO cameras).  It's very good, but I just can't get used to Linux/Mate, (getting too old in my ways... 🤓)

I readily confess I'm biased to PCs, but I have so much more experience with Windows that I've now gone back to the PC based route.  Couple that with the relatively economic availability of very powerful units, I've now bought a fairly fast NUC, (a 515RYH with an i5-5250U 2.7g proc, 16gb RAM and a 256gb SSD).  This was £240 second hand.

It's only slightly larger than the Pi, at 4 inches square, and runs happily off my 12v SLA battery pack.

It now sits happily on the mount, with nice short leads to the camera and mount, and thanks to the handy Windows Remote Control app, is controlled via any PC or tablet on my home wifi/wired network. I can stand next to it with my 10 inch android tablet, or run it from my notebook in the conservatory, or from my gaming PC upstairs with triple monitor setup, or even move between them.

...and being windows, it happily runs all of the  AP and scope control software that I've got used to, (Sharpcap, APT, Stellarium, kStars etc..)

 

 

[Scooot]

1 hour ago, Astro-Geek said:

I (I had initially considered the ASIair, but that was restricted to just ZWO cameras).  

According to their literature they are now compatible with many canon & Nikon DSLRs. I don’t have any first hand experience with the Asair, I’m just seriously considering one myself  

Edited August 31, 2019 by Scooot

[Astro-Geek]

39 minutes ago, Scooot said:

According to their literature they are now compatible with many canon & Nikon DSLRs. I don’t have any first hand experience with the Asair, I’m just seriously considering one myself  

I have to admit, my only knowledge of them is whatever I have gleaned online.

I believe the only CCD/CMOS astro cameras they can connect to are ZWO, being a proprietary product.

The Stellarmate uses the same Pi hardware (3 or even 4) but can connect to Ascom compatible cameras, whether bought as a hardware/software package or just the software alone.

Bit I could be wrong there too ! 👀

Edited August 31, 2019 by Astro-Geek

[choochoo_baloo]

13 hours ago, Scooot said:

What about a ZWO Asiair https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/zwo-asiair

 

Having read up that link you helpfully gave, it seems they're INDI based, and with that very limited support of beginner friendly programs I'd us elike Backyard EOS or Sequence Generator Pro. So I'll rule out the Asiair.

6 hours ago, freiform said:

It is for controlling the hardware only, not processing or other CPU-heavy tasks? Also, are you set on a framework (ASCOM or INDI) and with it on a operating system?

 

Sven

 

Exactly Sven: *only* hardware control. I plan to subsequent processing on another beefy desktop.

As I've put above, I think it has to be ASCOM for foreseeable future and therefore by extension Win 10.

Can you therefore make any recommendations?

 

[JamesF]

44 minutes ago, choochoo_baloo said:

Having read up that link you helpfully gave, it seems they're INDI based, and with that very limited support of beginner friendly programs I'd us elike Backyard EOS or Sequence Generator Pro. So I'll rule out the Asiair.

To be honest, I really don't think there's much to fear with Kstars/Ekos/INDI.  It's perhaps not as straightforward as APT (which I assume must be broadly similar to BYE which I've never used in anger), but it does an awful lot more stuff than APT.  Yes, I am a very long-time Linux/UNIX user and I do work in IT, but I got to the point of actually being able to capture images without reading manuals or even watching online tutorials (though the latter is actually quite helpful

It's not perfect and there are niggles (one of which has resolved itself for me by my filter wheel dying , but I think that's true of any software.

However, if you happen to have a spare PC lying around (apparently there are people who don't!) that you can connect all your kit to temporarily and don't mind reinstalling, it should be easy enough to try for free.

Not that I'm trying to persuade you to go that route over any other.  You should pick whatever does what you want and makes your life easiest, because the last thing you want to do is spend your time fighting the software.

James

[JamesF]

Oh, for what it's worth, I have it running on an HP Elitedesk Mini that I bought second-hand.  Probably a bit too big to put on the mount itself -- about 8" square and 1" deep -- though not impossible depending on your setup.  In my case the PC is on the pier with two USB3 cables actually on the mount; one for the primary imaging camera and the other to a powered USB3 hub that everything else is plugged into.  The RPi route would be significantly cheaper, but I want to be able to do high frame rate imaging as well as deep sky, and the RPi would probably struggle with that.

James

[DaveS]

When Rupert from Astrograph delivered my DDM85 we had a long chat about imaging hardware and he brought along one of his mini PCs from E-EyE, one of These, or a clone, there are any number up that long river place.

The one I've linked to is a barebones system to which I'll add my own RAM and SSDs. The big advantage for me is the presence of old fashioned RS232 COM ports for mount control.

[freiform]

2 hours ago, choochoo_baloo said:

*only* hardware control. I plan to subsequent processing on another beefy desktop.

As I've put above, I think it has to be ASCOM for foreseeable future and therefore by extension Win 10.

Can you therefore make any recommendations?

 

 

Hello Matthew,

I only have experience with an older NUC model which I used for a media center a couple of years back. They have a quite a range and there should be one that fits a certain requirement. I also read good things about Zotcac's zboxes which are in the same ballpark as the NUCs.

Anyway, general recommendations are difficult. In your shoes, I would make sure that I have all the ports I need, and solid connectivity, be it gigabit ethernet or WiFi. Especially look at the USB-Ports. If you use a big sensor or a high framerate (or both!), make sure you have dedicated USB-controllers so you don't run into any bandwidth issues. If you have legacy hardware using RS232 @DaveS recommendations is worth checking, and I am sure that there are other makes and models.

I would go about it using a service such as geizhals (skinflint in the UK?), browse to the mini-pc category and then play with the filters. They are quite extensive and you will likely get a list of candidates that fit exactly you requirements. At worst this will give you an overview what is available! Maybe then the forum can give you more solid advice? Sorry I cannot be of more help.

Sven

[Scooot]

On 31/08/2019 at 10:21, Astro-Geek said:

I have to admit, my only knowledge of them is whatever I have gleaned online.

I believe the only CCD/CMOS astro cameras they can connect to are ZWO, being a proprietary product.

 

As I’m considering purchasing an Asair I emailed ZWO to clarify whether my camera is supported. They confirmed it is as per their website:

[Astro-Geek]

24 minutes ago, Scooot said:

As I’m considering purchasing an Asair I emailed ZWO to clarify whether my camera is supported. They confirmed it is as per their website:

 

Yes, that certainly shows good support for DSLRs.

One just needs to bear in mind that the only dedicated CCD/CMOS cameras that they support are ZWO ones, whereas the "less proprietary branded" Stellarmate Pi supports any with Ascom drivers.

[Astro-Geek]

On 31/08/2019 at 16:40, freiform said:

 

...................I only have experience with an older NUC model which I used for a media center a couple of years back. They have a quite a range and there should be one that fits a certain requirement. ...........

Yes, a very good point for anyone considering buying one for Astro use.

The wide range of NUCs and similar "mini PCs" can be misleading in their expected speed and performance.  Identical looking models vary greatly in their CPU speeds, RAM and IO ports.

I've been successfully using a fairly fast one for some years now on my home network as a 24/7 server to upload weather stats to the web and record TV via Windows Media Recorder. 

So when I bought another one for my "Astro Server" 🤓, I chose very carefully.  I made sure I got one with 16gb of RAM, an SSD, and USB 3.0 ports.

The final choice was narrowed down by CPU type, where I used a comparison website, https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/

This gave relative "speed marks" enabling me to compare them with my existing (and previous) PCs.

My new NUC's i5-5250U    had a speed rating of 3592, which put it well up on my other PC's speeds:

908         MINIX NEO Z64        Intel Z3735F 1.8ghz  ( a little Minix Windows Media player that lives behind my TV)
1002       ACER NOTEBOOK ES1-512    celeron N2840  @ 2.16ghz Dual-core   (my previous windows notebook)
1289       MAC MINI        Core 2 Duo (P7350)   (my Mac Mini)
3452       Server2 nuc        i5-4250U  (My 24/7 home network NUC)
8132       ASUS GL502VM        Intel® Core™ i7 6700HQ  (my latest "gaming" notebook)
9506       BENCH TOWER        i7 3770k   (my desktop gaming machine)

 

Many Astro and AP progs are quite undemanding, cpu-wise, but software like Stellarium runs so much faster and more smoothly when accessed via Windows Remote Desktop.

 

[rockinrome]

Hello

I would also consider the GIGBYTE Brix - approx. £80-£100 for the unit then (say) 128GB SSD + 8GBRAM (£60??)
I have configured 2 of the J1900 units for myself and my father and they are superb!
Come with USB2/3 Wi-fi, Wired network, HDMI and VGA, sound/mic port.

All the best.