Another Indi product from main stream.

[stash_old]

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/atik-accessories/atikbase-mini-computer-for-astrophotography-capture-control.html

Clue

• Offline EKOS Live mode - To allow the StellaMate web interface running on mobile devices to control the imaging system without requiring access to the internet or VNC.

[StarDodger]

40 minutes ago, stash_old said:

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/atik-accessories/atikbase-mini-computer-for-astrophotography-capture-control.html

Clue

• Offline EKOS Live mode - To allow the StellaMate web interface running on mobile devices to control the imaging system without requiring access to the internet or VNC.

Hmmm, I heard this was coming out...

OMG look at the price for an RPI with free software and a few power ports... 😮😮

Sorry Stellarmate OS is $49

Edited June 18, 2019 by StarDodger

[StarDodger]

I like the way they call or a “small computer”, and not it’s true name, a Raspberry PI .. 🤔 makes it sound more appealing I guess

[adyj1]

I think us IT hobbyists need to bear in mind this is a commercial product, which involves much more than just being a cheap RPi and some free software. Support, updates, integration, etc - some people want the pain taken out of their Astro IT and this sort of product gives them that. At a price, admittedly, but the price isn't just based on a sum of the parts... 

 

[wimvb]

If you examine the specs and images of this product, you'll discover that Atik put some thought and engineering into it. 12 V power input, so no need for 5V, plus 12 V outputs to power stuff. ST4 guide port, built in focuser interface. A Raspberry Pi with a custom HAT, based on StellarMate, and codeveloped with Ikarus (read, Jasem Mutlaq). All that should be worth the higher price. Imo, it is competitively priced when compared to similar products.

The real question is, will it support other cameras, or only Atik?

Edited June 18, 2019 by wimvb

[StarDodger]

8 hours ago, wimvb said:

If you examine the specs and images of this product, you'll discover that Atik put some thought and engineering into it. 12 V power input, so no need for 5V, plus 12 V outputs to power stuff. ST4 guide port, built in focuser interface. A Raspberry Pi with a custom HAT, based on StellarMate, and codeveloped with Ikarus (read, Jasem Mutlaq). All that should be worth the higher price. Imo, it is competitively priced when compared to similar products.

The real question is, will it support other cameras, or only Atik?

It isnt new code, it is just Stellarmate in a new box..exactly the same software...

[wornish]

9 hours ago, wimvb said:

If you examine the specs and images of this product, you'll discover that Atik put some thought and engineering into it. 12 V power input, so no need for 5V, plus 12 V outputs to power stuff. ST4 guide port, built in focuser interface. A Raspberry Pi with a custom HAT, based on StellarMate, and codeveloped with Ikarus (read, Jasem Mutlaq). All that should be worth the higher price. Imo, it is competitively priced when compared to similar products.

The real question is, will it support other cameras, or only Atik?

I guess that If it's running INDI then it will support all the cameras that INDI supports.  Even if ATIK removed the drivers you can always download them again and it will work.  One thing that would worry me is trying to take any power from the USB ports.  You will still need a powered hub to handle all the various parts of your setup. 

 

[wimvb]

2 hours ago, StarDodger said:

It isnt new code, it is just Stellarmate in a new box..exactly the same software...

Very similar software, but different hardware. The extras are in the HAT that Atik developed. Probably also custom drivers to control that hardware.

2 hours ago, wornish said:

I guess that If it's running INDI then it will support all the cameras that INDI supports.

Not necessarily so. Zwo have the same concept, but locked out non-zwo cameras, afaIk. So it depends on how open the Atik software is.

[stash_old]

3 hours ago, wimvb said:

Probably also custom drivers to control that hardware

Probably true but IMHO that defeats the object of "Open Source" - fine if they publish the source as Indi Library(and custom drivers ?) is supposed to be Open Source quote INDI is a standard for astronomical instrumentation control. INDI Library is an Open Source POSIX implementation of theInstrument-Neutral-Device-Interface protocol..

I must admit Indi does seem to be on its way to becoming a commercial product in the same way Linux did - part very commercial,part open source - e.g. Red Hat etc. Can not really decide which side of the fence I sit on.

I did say IMHO 🙂 Quote The term "open source" refers to something people can modify and share because its design is publicly accessible

[wimvb]

8 hours ago, stash_old said:

must admit Indi does seem to be on its way to becoming a commercial product

I see it as a sign that INDI is becoming a mature alternative to ASCOM. And even with several commercial products coming to market, you still have the option to buy a Raspberry Pi and install free alternatives, such as ekos/kstars, astroberry, CdC and CCDCiel, etc.

[don4l]

1 hour ago, wimvb said:

I see it as a sign that INDI is becoming a mature alternative to ASCOM. And even with several commercial products coming to market, you still have the option to buy a Raspberry Pi and install free alternatives, such as ekos/kstars, astroberry, CdC and CCDCiel, etc.

I've been using INDI since the beginning of May.  I'm not going back to Windows/Ascom for the foreseeable future.

Linux has come on in leaps and bounds since I last looked at it about 10 years ago.

My system is INDI - CCDCiel, PHD2, Cartes du Ciel.  TightVNC .

Everything is working with remarkable stability and efficiency.  As you say, it has become "mature".

I'd also suggest that CCDCiel is a much more capable package than it looks.  It certainly has some features that appear to be undocumented (Live stacking with auto alignment and dark subtraction, for example).

 

 

[StarDodger]

8 hours ago, don4l said:

I've been using INDI since the beginning of May.  I'm not going back to Windows/Ascom for the foreseeable future.

Linux has come on in leaps and bounds since I last looked at it about 10 years ago.

My system is INDI - CCDCiel, PHD2, Cartes du Ciel.  TightVNC .

Everything is working with remarkable stability and efficiency.  As you say, it has become "mature".

I'd also suggest that CCDCiel is a much more capable package than it looks.  It certainly has some features that appear to be undocumented (Live stacking with auto alignment and dark subtraction, for example).

 

 

Have you tried Kstars, which is basically an all in one solution, it too like CCD Ciel is superb...

[don4l]

32 minutes ago, StarDodger said:

Have you tried Kstars, which is basically an all in one solution, it too like CCD Ciel is superb...

 

 I tried Kstars initially, but I didn't really get on with it.  I had two main issues.  The first is that it crashed a couple of times, and I couldn't understand what caused the crashes.  The second is that it seems too tightly linked to INDI, which makes operation across multiple PC's a bit more difficult (for me?).

Of course, this is purely a subjective opinion.

[stash_old]

1 minute ago, don4l said:

The second is that it seems too tightly linked to INDI, which makes operation across multiple PC's a bit more difficult (for me?).

I dont disagree on the first part Kstars and Ekos are like conjoined twins something I found annoying especially at first - IMO Kstars and Ekos should operate as independent items but I doubt that will ever happen.

Indiserver will, by default run across 'x' number of devices (Linux), as that's the underlying Indi protocol. At first it might seem confusing but bear with it - it is a simple process once you get past the Device names used from the command line.

 

[StarDodger]

5 hours ago, stash_old said:

I dont disagree on the first part Kstars and Ekos are like conjoined twins something I found annoying especially at first - IMO Kstars and Ekos should operate as independent items but I doubt that will ever happen.

Indiserver will, by default run across 'x' number of devices (Linux), as that's the underlying Indi protocol. At first it might seem confusing but bear with it - it is a simple process once you get past the Device names used from the command line.

 

I get what you are saying, but I actually like the way Kstars and Ekos are an all in one imaging solution, open one piece of software and everything you  need is there, no need to open anything else...

I guess if you have a different preference for planetarium software then I think being able to use ekos with it independently of Kstars would be a superb idea, but I also doubt it will ever happen... 

Edited June 20, 2019 by StarDodger

[wimvb]

1 hour ago, StarDodger said:

I actually like the way Kstars and Ekos are an all in one imaging solution, open one piece of software and everything you  need is there, no need to open anything else

Me too. But I do prefer phd over the built in guider. 2 programs going while I do my thing.

I have had kstars on my windows laptop crash, but I could relate that to how long that computer had been running since last start. If I reboot my laptop before I start kstars, it doesn't crash. Probably it has something to do with windows memory management or cache usage. Coming season I plan to run everything from my sbc, including plate solving. I'll only use windows rdp on my laptop.

[StarDodger]

2 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Me too. But I do prefer phd over the built in guider. 2 programs going while I do my thing.

I have had kstars on my windows laptop crash, but I could relate that to how long that computer had been running since last start. If I reboot my laptop before I start kstars, it doesn't crash. Probably it has something to do with windows memory management or cache usage. Coming season I plan to run everything from my sbc, including plate solving. I'll only use windows rdp on my laptop.

What SBC do you use....

[wimvb]

Rock64 from Pine64.org. It has more memory than Raspberry Pi (1, 2 or 4 GB), usb3, support for sd cards up to at least 128 GB, but no built in wifi.

[StarDodger]

2 minutes ago, wimvb said:

Rock64 from Pine64.org. It has more memory than Raspberry Pi (1, 2 or 4 GB), usb3, support for sd cards up to at least 128 GB, but no built in wifi.

Sounds good, how easy is it to create a hotspot so can connect to it out in the field, as I currently have Stellarmate which has that built in, and guess that would not run on any other SBC other than the rpi...?

I realise would need WiFi dongle first...

Edited June 20, 2019 by StarDodger

[wimvb]

1 hour ago, StarDodger said:

realise would need WiFi dongle first.

That would cost you one usb port. I opted for an extra router, to which I connect the sbc's (two actually) and my laptop. Since I have my setup a bit away from my house, and too many obstructions, I found wifi too slow and error prone. When I used dongles, I could lose my wifi connection. So I got myself a router that I set up with its own little network. I wire the sbc's and laptop to it. No internet, but that isn't needed during imaging; I platesolve offline. Ansvr (astrometry net server) on windows or built in astrometry on the rock64.

The reason that I got two sbc's is that it turned out I was one of the first to use a 64 bit Rock64 with INDI, and it took a while to get everything working. For some reason, having two zwo cameras on one sbc didn't work. My imaging camera and my guide camera are both ASI. But distributing INDI is easy, and gave me redundancy.

PHD wasn't available in 64 bit on Linux, but Patrick Chevalley (who maintains phd on linux) added the arm64 port to the repository.

When you use free, open software, you have to accept that it may not be fully developed, and that you may have to figure out things as you go along. But it's great to be part of that community and help in its development, even if only through testing and sharing experiences.

A few weeks ago I moved from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04, and installed everything from scratch (Ubuntu, mate, INDI, ekos/kstars, phd, and astrometry). Unlike the very first time, it was easy this time, and everything worked immediately. Also a sign that the technology is becoming mature.

[StarDodger]

2 hours ago, wimvb said:

That would cost you one usb port. I opted for an extra router, to which I connect the sbc's (two actually) and my laptop. Since I have my setup a bit away from my house, and too many obstructions, I found wifi too slow and error prone. When I used dongles, I could lose my wifi connection. So I got myself a router that I set up with its own little network. I wire the sbc's and laptop to it. No internet, but that isn't needed during imaging; I platesolve offline. Ansvr (astrometry net server) on windows or built in astrometry on the rock64.

The reason that I got two sbc's is that it turned out I was one of the first to use a 64 bit Rock64 with INDI, and it took a while to get everything working. For some reason, having two zwo cameras on one sbc didn't work. My imaging camera and my guide camera are both ASI. But distributing INDI is easy, and gave me redundancy.

PHD wasn't available in 64 bit on Linux, but Patrick Chevalley (who maintains phd on linux) added the arm64 port to the repository.

When you use free, open software, you have to accept that it may not be fully developed, and that you may have to figure out things as you go along. But it's great to be part of that community and help in its development, even if only through testing and sharing experiences.

A few weeks ago I moved from Ubuntu 16.04 to 18.04, and installed everything from scratch (Ubuntu, mate, INDI, ekos/kstars, phd, and astrometry). Unlike the very first time, it was easy this time, and everything worked immediately. Also a sign that the technology is becoming mature.

With your setup why do you need a router... surely a network switch would be enough..?

[wimvb]

1 hour ago, StarDodger said:

With your setup why do you need a router... surely a network switch would be enough..?

Just a matter of access. I could get a router cheap at the time. A switch would also do.

Edited June 20, 2019 by wimvb

[ArtL]

Is the offline Ekos live feature available from any open source Indi library or is it proprietary to Atik/Stellarmate? If the latter, is it part of Stellarmate generally or is it available only with the AtikBase hardware? (I am using KStars/Ekos installed through AstroPi3 but I might be willing to purchase the Stellarmate software to obtain access to this feature. I wouldn’t need AtikBase because its focuser controller only works with unipolar stepper motors and my Feathertouch focuser motor is bipolar and I already have the Feathertouch  controller).