Low-teen SWA/UWA options: Vixen LVW 13mm vs Meade 5k UWA 14mm vs ... ?

[MetroiD]

Hello everyone, I seem to be faced with the sweetest of issues: deciding between two (or more) solid eyepieces... and would really like to enlist some support here!

There's a special place in my EP collection for a super / ultra wide angle EP between ~12 and 14 mm as my go-to DSO tool. My lowest-magnification 1.25" EP currently is a WO 16mm UWAN which I use all the time. My next EP, an ES82 8.8mm, gets me a tad too close for DSO observation though - so I recently purchased a Meade 5000 UWA 14mm. I have admittedly not been that impressed by the Meade when comparing it side by side with the WO / Nirvana. In my 200p Newtonian, the 14mm does not provide much more in terms of magnification (86x vs 75x with the 16mm) and I feel that the UWAN's transmission is better, not to mention field curvature.

For the time being, I'd prefer not to go down the route of Naglers and Ethos (pricey!) - but aside from those, I figure there's quite a few others to choose from. So far, I seem to have set my sights on the Vixen LVW 13mm. Scared off by field curvature reports, I'd also rather steer clear of Pentax XW 14mm and ES82 14mm. But then there's the Vixen LVWs which still seem to enjoy a great reputation, even as veterans. As do Baader's Morpheus EPs, but reports seem to suggest that the Vixens are the ones to choose in that comparison... So should I go for the LVW 13mm, or is there a better non-TeleVue UWA/SWA option? Perhaps I should rather wait for a well-preserved Meade 4k UWA 14mm to come along? Or drop the old-school affair altogether and try an ES100 14mm instead?

P.S.: My current collection also comprises a Meade 5k UWA 24mm and 5k UWA 5.5mm, as well as a 4mm UWAN. At some point later on, I'd like to replace the ES82 8.8mm with a Pentax XW 10mm.

Edited May 30, 2019 by MetroiD

[Louis D]

I have the 14mm Pentax XL, Morpheus, and Meade 4000 UWA.

The Pentax is sharp across the field once refocused for its field curvature.  If you're young, you would be able to accommodate the 14mm XW field curvature.  I never noticed the field curvature in my 21 year old XL until I got presbyopia in my mid 40s.  All that aside, it's only 65 degrees.

The Morpheus is about the same sharpness in the central 80% that overlaps with the XL.  There is slight field curvature, but the edge will not sharpen up due to astigmatism and chromatic aberration.  However, it's my favorite of the three because it is actually 78 degrees in actual apparent field of view though the effective field of view is only 75 degrees due to edge distortion.  It also is just about as contrasty as the Pentax, so it has good polish and well controlled stray light.

The Meade is just kind of sad by comparison to those two, but it is an over 30 year old design.  It has an actual apparent field of view of 80 degrees with little to no distortion, so the effective FOV is also 80 degrees.  However, Meade advertised it having an 84 degree AFOV, which it does not.  It also has outdated coatings and horrible stray light control.  Looking at the moon involves trying to keep the moon centered so bright light doesn't make it to the lens edges or the inside the barrel to reflect all over.  The edge correction is very good for its time.  However, stars focus to radial lines at the edges.  It's not astigmatism, because they're the same radial lines on either side of focus, just bloated.  This matches up with the spot diagrams in Telescope Optics by Harrie Rutten and Martin van Venrooij for the original 13mm Nagler that the Meade was derived from.  I can't imagine anyone being pleased by this eyepiece who has used any ultrawide eyepiece designed in the last 20 years.

Another option is to locate a used 12mm Nagler T4 for about $225 (at least in the US).  They're really very good despite being a 20 year old design.  That is more than a used 13mm LVW, but at least in the US, they're easier to find.

There's also the APM HDC XWA 13 mm 100° eyepiece that is supposed to quite good and affordable compared to the ES and TV offerings.

Lastly, my favorite is the 12mm ES-92.  It's like a Delos on steroids.  Super sharp to the edge and easy to hold the exit pupil with eyeglasses.  There's no hunting around to see the entire field, it's just there in front of you.  It's also nice and contrasty.  Even though it has supplanted my 12mm NT4, I keep the Nagler around because it is so much lighter, more compact and 1.25" compatible.

[Ricochet]

If you're happy with the 16mm then you don't need a 14mm, 12mm is as high a focal length as you'd want in my opinion. I used to use 12 and 16mm quite happily in my 8" dob, until I tried a 14XW and sold the rest to fund a 10.

[MetroiD]

Thanks for the recommendation Ricochet - sticking to my current 8.8mm and 16mm 'guns' was actually one of the things I was considering.

Louis - wow, thank you for sharing such extensive feedback, it really means a lot to me that you took the time to provide me & the other forum members with so much detail! Based on your suggestion, for the time being I think I might just reconsider the LVW / Morpheus purchase and wait for a used 92° 12mm.

[Louis D]

58 minutes ago, MetroiD said:

Thanks for the recommendation Ricochet - sticking to my current 8.8mm and 16mm 'guns' was actually one of the things I was considering.

Louis - wow, thank you for sharing such extensive feedback, it really means a lot to me that you took the time to provide me & the other forum members with so much detail! Based on your suggestion, for the time being I think I might just reconsider the LVW / Morpheus purchase and wait for a used 92° 12mm.

Thanks for the feedback.  Some people say I over explain (mansplain) things, particularly my wife of 29 years. 🙄

Just be aware of the extreme weight and size of the 12mm ES-92 and the fact that it is 2"-only:

Compare the above to my aforementioned 14mm collection:

[MetroiD]

17 hours ago, Louis D said:

Just be aware of the extreme weight and size of the 12mm ES-92 and the fact that it is 2"-only

Yes, and that's actually one of the key reasons why I'd still like to hunt down the right 12mm/13mm 1.25" EP for me. The financial perspective also plays a part - I'm currently looking to purchase a 1.25" Lumicon O-III filter and if I had to replace that with (or add) a 2" O-III, it would make tracking down the filter at a somewhat acceptable price even harder... Furthermore, my only current 2" eyepiece is the hefty Meade 5000 UWA 24mm and it's taught me that my 200p's stock Crayford focuser would definitely require some strengthening if I want to observe objects that are still low above the horizon. So switching to the pair of 92's would definitely mean improving the scope's overall 2" handling capabilities.

[Mr Spock]

I use a 13mm LVW. A very comfortable eyepiece to use. I don't know where you read about field curvature but I don't see any in mine. The one I have is sharp from centre to edge.

[rwilkey]

Hi Metro, another vote for the 13mm LVW, it's a stunning ep and very sharp right to the edge, even in my f/5 newtonian, however, I believe they have stopped making them now, but if you can get one s/h that would be good.

[F15Rules]

The LVW 13 is in my opinion the best LVW of the range after the LVW22, which is outstanding. 

Personally though, I would go for the Morpheus 12.5mm, an unsung hero of that range..better than the 14mm Morpheus (which itself I think is better than the XW14, having much less FC, I sold my XW14 and kept the Morph)..

But I think if you like the Nirvana 16, a 12.5 or 13mm would be close enough in magnification whilst giving a noticeably higher power. 

So, for me, a choice between Morpheus 12.5mm and LVW 13. And I would take the extra 11 Deg fov (76 Vs 65) of the Morpheus and it's superior light transmission (more modern coatings).

Good luck with your choice🙃!

Dave

[MetroiD]

8 hours ago, F15Rules said:

So, for me, a choice between Morpheus 12.5mm and LVW 13. And I would take the extra 11 Deg fov (76 Vs 65) of the Morpheus and it's superior light transmission (more modern coatings).

Exactly what I've decided in the end. Thank you all for sharing your experience

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I had the Meade 14mm Series 5000, and liked it a lot, except the lack of eye relief. I now have a Nagler 12T4, which in my view is the weakest of the three T4 Naglers, but still a good EP. I have also got a Delos 14mm which is outstanding