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Help choosing CCD (or "please spend my money!")

AndyM

By AndyM
in Discussions - Cameras

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AndyM

AndyM

Posted
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Hoping for a bit lot of advice here. :)

I’m thinking of jumping in to the money pit of CCD imaging to hopefully move up to the next level of imaging, but what would be the most suitable camera to get? For various reasons I’m reluctant to modify my DSLR so think this is the way to go.

My main imaging scope at the moment is the ED80 coupled with the Canon 350d with the 8” Newt being called into play occasionally.

I want to image DSOs mainly (and am lucky enough to live in a superb dark site,) and also try solar imaging via the PST. Budget will be limited to £7-800 according to my financial directors instructions!

I see that the dedicated astro cameras have less pixels than my Canon, so how does this affect the image scale? For example, if M31 fills the chip on the Canon using the ED80 how would it compare to a chip of say 1300x1000 pixels? Does it mean that a CCD will give “tunnel vision” or would the same image just be spread over a smaller number of pixels?

What are the advantages /drawbacks of a one shot colour over a monochrome camera with filter wheel? Would a colour camera be a purchase I may regret a few months down the line?

That brings me to another point - this will be a purchase that I will want to be be happy with for a long time to come, I don’t want to buy something that will be just OK, I’d sooner get something now that won’t leave me wishing I’d got a better model. (I'm not afraid of huge learning curves :) )

Finally - is there anything else I would need to get me up and running that I may not have thought about?

Hope some of you with CCD expertise can help.

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steppenwolf

steppenwolf

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My main imaging scope at the moment is the ED80 coupled with the Canon 350d with the 8” Newt being called into play occasionally.

Both these 'scopes can be used to good effect in CCD imaging so no particular problem there although coma will be an issue with a larger sensor on the Newtonian. - resolveable but at an additional cost

I see that the dedicated astro cameras have less pixels than my Canon, so how does this affect the image scale? For example, if M31 fills the chip on the Canon using the ED80 how would it compare to a chip of say 1300x1000 pixels? Does it mean that a CCD will give “tunnel vision” or would the same image just be spread over a smaller number of pixels?

Not only dies the 1300 x 1000 pixel CCD have less pixels but it will be much smaller than the sensor in your DSLR so the images will show a much smaller field of view.

What are the advantages /drawbacks of a one shot colour over a monochrome camera with filter wheel? Would a colour camera be a purchase I may regret a few months down the line?

I am almost frightened to tell you how big a question that is!! There are pros and cons to both. I guess the bottom line is that a mono camera is more sensitive and versatile (better for narrowband imaging for example) than a one shot colour camera but then you have to factor in the cost of buying the RGB filters (assuming you want colour images at the end of the session!) and the additional grief in using them. I only have one shot CCDs and love them but this is an argument that will run and run!

Finally - is there anything else I would need to get me up and running that I may not have thought about?

If you really want to do DSO imaging, sooner of later (usually sooner) you will need to consider guiding to allow you to take longer exposure images to colect the detail from the dimmer DSOs.

You know, for your budget, I'd be really tempted to buy a filter modified DSLR just for astro work (thus leaving your existing DSLR well alone) and putting the rest of the budget towards autoguiding and a good Hutech IDAS Light Pollution filter.

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George

George

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I have Togo along with Steve and Billy on this one. The DSLR is more versatile than a CCD especially if its modded. If I had your budget this is what I'd do.

Modify existing 350D you can get a WB filter for just over 100 quid if you need it for daylight use, either get the CLS or IDAS filter to deal with LP etc

That will cost you less than half your budget at a guess.

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iancandler

iancandler

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Theres 3 choices there really and its going to be up to you which route to go down.

1: Modify the 350D and with whats left go out and by a new 450D body for your photography.

2: Buy a new dedicated B&W CCD cam + filters/wheel.. such as one of the atik's

3: Hunt around for a secondhand QHY8 6.3 MP one shot colour cam or save a few more pennies and get a new one ( I think Berns doing them for £1099 at present) The QHY8 is capable of producing stunning images check out the QHY web site for examples.

If money wasnt an issue and I wasnt an ardent photographer I would go for option 3 myself.. if I was, option 1, if money was a little tight then option 2 as I could buy bits and pieces as and when I had the cash.

The only other thing I would budget for initially would be a guide cam and ST4 cable for your mount, thats assuming you already have software such as photoshop or another image editor to do final adjustments with.

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narrowbandpaul

narrowbandpaul

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if you can stretch to around 900 the Orion Starshoot Pro...has an 8MP sony chip...one shot colour and sensitive and low noise. Could be the perfect starter camera.

Same size sensor as DSLR, but cooled, so less noise, more sensitive...if you can save for a month or two more perhaps.

should check it out.

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narrowbandpaul

narrowbandpaul

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the QHY 8 features almost an identical chip..I dont know what the subtle difference is?...perhaps microlensing...who has the QHY 8.

looks like a good camera, but I cant see it being radically better than the orion starshoot pro offering...I would seiouisly consider these.

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Whippy

Whippy

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the QHY 8 features almost an identical chip..I dont know what the subtle difference is?...perhaps microlensing...who has the QHY 8.

looks like a good camera, but I cant see it being radically better than the orion starshoot pro offering...I would seiouisly consider these.

IIRC, the QHY8 has a progessive scan chip over the Orion's interlaced and the cooling is better on the QHY too. Only what I've read mind, not through personal experience. Also,if you're looking at cameras with the bigger chips then you'd need 2" filters which are considerably more expensive than the 1.25" equivalents.

Another alternative if you want to go the astro CCD router rather than a DSLR would be to look out for a second hand camera with the Sony 285 chip in it such as the Atik 16hr, Starlight Xpress H9, QHY2 pro. I picked up my Atik for less than £700 and it's a marvel :) .

Tony..

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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The 350D's are so cheap though that you would have money left over for the essential accessories..

I know i'm sticking with mine for a while yet before going down the specialist astro CCD route.

If you use a Hutech IDAS and you can dedicate the 350D to astro work then you can just remove the filter from the 350D and dont repalce it with anything at all... The IDAS takes care of the UV/IR filterign as well :)

Billy...

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AndyM

AndyM

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Thanks for all the advice. Really helpful as always.

After reading through your opinions I am tempted now to get a modded 350d. Billy, must admit browsing some of your images with the Canon is swaying the decision a little. 8)

With regard to solar imaging and guiding would using this http://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/qhy5-guider-amp-imaging-camera_d3159.html do what is wanted?

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MartinB

MartinB

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DSLR, one shot colour CCD, mono CCD, the quality of the kit available now means you can't go wrong really, it's just that different cameras lend themselves to different sorts of imaging. If you do go down the CCD route and want to make sure you don't want to update after a year then the mono solution is something containing the Sony 285 chip. For OSC a QHY8 will also be capable of keeping you happy for ever. Might be £300 over budget. If that is the case you are better off waiting and saving rather than going for something that you aren't ultimately going to be happy with

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AndyM

AndyM

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Thanks for all the input guys, you've all helped me reach a decision on this.

I've decided to get the guiding sorted first (a QHY5 ordered from Bern today :) ) and then I'm going down the modded DSLR route, leaving my existing Canon alone and buying a modded 350 body - just need to find a supplier now!

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