Last Nights Session

[Ed in UK]

Hi Everyone,

Managed to get out again last night for a couple of hours, not everything went quite to plan which is great as it means hopefully I will learn something.

Conditions seemed quite good may be even slightly better/clearer than previous attempts.

Started off by having a look at M42 again and taking another look at the Trapezium, seems to be a common starting point for me now.

After that I moved across to  Alnitak on Orions belt before dropping down slightly to look at the horse head nebula. I didn't expect to see the "Horse Head" as I believe it's beyond the scope of my equipment, but I was hoping to at least see the cloudy gas/space of the nebula. However nothing, no cloudy misty area just the usual black with stars. So hoping for a little guidance from you more experienced guys, should I be able to see this ? Looking at my start chart it shows a Magnitude of 2.1 so I would have expected to see it.

After that I then battled again with my Setting Circles to look for the Cone Nebula. I chose this target because A, its big and B, with a magnitude of 4.1 I again expected it to be fairly easy to find.

My After aligning the Scope & Circles with Alnitak I move the scope across to Dec +10, RA 6H 40 mins which seemed to land me on a star cluster but scanning around again no Nebula.

I reset the scope & circles back to Alnitak and this time used the circles to move to Pleiades, as I know I can find that constellation. I must say that I got pretty damn close as only a slight shift in Dec & RA was required before Pleiades popped into view.

After looking at Pleiades for a while it was back to Alnitak again and retry the move to the Cone Nebula. It landed me back in exactly the same spot as before, recognizing the star cluster. Again after a search of the surrounding area no Nebula was found. I dropped down looking for the Rosette Nebula but again nothing.

Today after Googling both Cone and Rosette Nebula I discovered that Rosette can only be seen with an Ultra High Contrast (UHC) filter, would that be correct ?. Would this also be the reason why I couldn't find the Horse Head and Cone nebula ?

Looking at the images/charts that I can find of the Cone Nebula I seem to recognize the start layout so I'm pretty sure that by chance the setting rings landed me on it twice.

Eyepiece used for the searching was the 25mm kit EP that came with the scope.

Any advice gratefully received.

Many thanks  

Ed

[Victor Boesen]

The nebulas maybe seem easy to find because of their stated magnitude, but because of their size, you can’t rely on the magnitude and you should instead focus on the surface brightness.

out of the three object you mention, then you should only expect to see them if you are under very dark skies. Objects like these require dark skies and aperture, however the rosette and Horsehead could be seen in 15x70 binoculars, and they would be enhanced by the use of filters as you mentioned yourself.

I personally think the rosette is the “easiest” and I have seen this at a fairly dark sky where the milky way’s brightest parts could be seen, with my Helios Apollo and my Olll and UHC filters in place. It wasn’t clear, but it was not like I had to struggle to find it. The same night I couldn’t see any of the flame or Horsehead nebula.

Victor

[Stu]

Good session Ed. The only thing you are doing wrong is starting off with the hardest targets! Don't be fooled by the brightness of large nebulae. The brightness is spread out over a large area (imagine defocussing a star of equivalent brightness over the same area) so the resultant surface brightness is very low. These objects are hard to see unless you are under a very dark sky, and yes, a UHC filter helps with many of them.

The Cone is notoriously difficult, needing a large scope and dark skies (or NV gear as Gavin has demonstrated), but when I try for it with my scopes under suburban skies is can see the cluster and perhaps the faintest hint of nebulosity, itching more. Likewise the nebulosity around the HorseHead is extremely faint and needs very dark skies to see it well.

I would try for others object types to start, globular clusters, planetary nebulae and even some of the brighter galaxies are easier as they have higher surface brightness.

[Stu]

3 minutes ago, Victor Boesen said:

Horsehead could be seen in 15x70 binoculars, and they would be enhanced by the use of filters as you mentioned yourself.

Have you seen the HorseHead in 15x70 binoculars Victor? Seems very challenging to me?

[Victor Boesen]

26 minutes ago, Stu said:

Have you seen the HorseHead in 15x70 binoculars Victor? Seems very challenging to me?

No... I have only seen the rosette.

[Stu]

13 minutes ago, Victor Boesen said:

No... I have only seen the rosette.

Ok, you seemed to be suggesting that HH could be seen in binos which I suspect is unlikely, have you heard of this being done?

[Victor Boesen]

13 minutes ago, Stu said:

Ok, you seemed to be suggesting that HH could be seen in binos which I suspect is unlikely, have you heard of this being done?

Not the horehead itself, but I have heard people seeing the nebulosity with larger bins, however it's a difficult target. Would be easier if you had a 20" dob

[Stu]

1 minute ago, Victor Boesen said:

Not the horehead itself, but I have heard people seeing the nebulosity with larger bins, however it's a difficult target. Would be easier if you had a 20" dob

Ah yes, the nebulosity from a very dark site I could believe.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations for the OP, this is not likely to be a target which is doable from a suburban sky.

[Victor Boesen]

12 minutes ago, Stu said:

Ah yes, the nebulosity from a very dark site I could believe.

I'm just trying to set realistic expectations for the OP, this is not likely to be a target which is doable from a suburban sky.

Totally agree! I have seen one on here who saw it with a night vision module on the eyepiece.

 

in the same challenge he has also taken a photo of the cone, rosette and more. Really impressive.

[Stu]

Just now, Victor Boesen said:

Totally agree! I have seen one on here who saw it with a night vision module on the eyepiece.

 

in the same challenge he has also taken a photo of the cone, rosette and more. Really impressive.

Yep, but that's a £6k piece of kit! Oh, and very nice views it gives too, I've had the please of seeing the Horsey through it. Amazing.

[Victor Boesen]

10 minutes ago, Stu said:

Yep, but that's a £6k piece of kit! Oh, and very nice views it gives too, I've had the please of seeing the Horsey through it. Amazing.

Jealous me... how are the "colors" through it? Are there any false colors from the nv device itself?

[Ed in UK]

Thanks guys for your guidance, really do appreciate it.

Trust me to start off at the wrong end of the scale....lol...

However I do recall seeing all three of these being used in "The Sky At Night" magazine sky tour

Perhaps a bit more planning required on my part ?

[Stu]

32 minutes ago, Ed in UK said:

However I do recall seeing all three of these being used in "The Sky At Night" magazine sky tour

Hmmm, that doesn't sound very helpful! Ed, I'm just trying to point you towards the targets likely to give you success in the beginning!

[Stu]

48 minutes ago, Ed in UK said:

Thanks guys for your guidance, really do appreciate it.

Trust me to start off at the wrong end of the scale....lol...

However I do recall seeing all three of these being used in "The Sky At Night" magazine sky tour

Perhaps a bit more planning required on my part ?

Have a look at the downloads on this site, quite handy for identifying easier binocular and small scope objects. One released every month, Febs available now.

http://www.skymaps.com/downloads.html

 

[Ed in UK]

Thanks Stuart, just had a quick look and have book marked it for future.

Birthday in March so maybe a copy of Turn Left at Orion would be wise as well.

[Astro Imp]

12 hours ago, Ed in UK said:

Birthday in March so maybe a copy of Turn Left at Orion would be wise as well.

As a beginner I think you will find this very useful. Make sure you get the newer edition which is spiral bound, my old copy is normal hardback, has been used so much it's falling to pieces.

Good luck and keep asking questions, you are sure of helpful answers from the folk here.

[Littleguy80]

13 hours ago, Ed in UK said:

Thanks Stuart, just had a quick look and have book marked it for future.

Birthday in March so maybe a copy of Turn Left at Orion would be wise as well.

Finding the right targets is the same issue I had! I’d look at apps on my phone and see these large nebula and then wonder why I couldn’t see see them! Turn Left at Orion was a big help. You can always ask about planned targets on here too. Plenty of very experienced astronomers who can set expectations on what is achievable  

[Ed in UK]

Thanks Littleguy80, I've downloaded and printed off the target's and star map for Feb as recommended by Stu. Plan to start by looking at the targets for Binoculars as hopefully they are brighter and bigger to get me started.

Tried to download a guide from one of the above stickies but had a few problems. Will retry again tomorrow.

Thanks for your help. ?

[F15Rules]

Hi Ed,

What scope are you using?

Which part of Lincolnshire are you located in? I'm in the southern end of the Wolds, I moved a year ago and find the skies here a good deal darker than near Leicester, where I moved from.

Welcome to SGL☺

Dave

[Ed in UK]

Hi Dave,

I'm using a Skywatcher  130 with a EQ2 mount. Just got the kit EP's. First scope and new to hobby.

I'm at the opposite end of the Wolds, just north of Market Rasen.

Oddly enough I moved here four years ago from a village in Northants.

Ed

[F15Rules]

Hi Ed,

I'm just south east of Horncastle..your skies should be at least as good as mine, on clear nights the Milky Way is very clearly visible, with some structure too, especially in the summer.

I believe your 130mm is a very capable first scope and should show you plenty of objects, including many if not most of those in Turn Left at Orion☺.

I use an equatorial mount too but don't use the setting circles. I prefer to Star Hop, ie use a star atlas to find brighter nearby objects and then "hop" gradually towards where the object should be according to the star charts, using fainter stars as well, to guide you.

I think you will find it much easier to find some of the "faint fuzziest" if and when you decide to upgrade to an 8" or 10" mirror..even then, many of the faint fuzziest will still only be slightly-less-faint-fuzzies though!?. (The clue is in the name!?)..

Whilst there is definitely something about seeing a very distant galaxy or nebula in "real time" through a modest aperture like yours or mine, there are so many other things to view that will look so much more rewarding in my opinion, such as planets (when visible, Mars and Jupiter will be next later this year), open clusters (like the Pleiades), globular clusters (like M13 in Hercules in the summer) and 100s of double stars (stars which look like single points to the naked eye, but actually are seen as two or even three stars through the scope, and often with noticeable colour shades too).

So you have many treats in store, Ed. If I could give you two other tips, firstly get to know the night sky with a star atlas and your naked eye, and when funds allow, upgrade your supplied eyepieces to better units..your scope optics are worth it!

All the best,

Dave

[Littleguy80]

44 minutes ago, Ed in UK said:

Hi Dave,

I'm using a Skywatcher  130 with a EQ2 mount. Just got the kit EP's. First scope and new to hobby.

I'm at the opposite end of the Wolds, just north of Market Rasen.

Oddly enough I moved here four years ago from a village in Northants.

Ed

That’s the same scope that I’m currently using. I do have some upgraded eyepieces and filters which help with some of the more challenging targets. There’s a lot you can see with your scope, especially under dark skies. Getting under good dark skies will make more difference than anything else.