NB filters (historical query)

[Demonperformer]

A recent off-forum discussion has got me wondering ....

Does anyone have any idea how much a normal Ha narrowband filter cost when they first hit the amateur market? Or indeed when that was? I've looked through some old BCF catalogues from the mid-1990s and can find no mention of such items, so I would guess it would be in the last 20 years that they have arrived. Google has not turned up anything useful, so over to you ...

Thanks.

[Merlin66]

Definitely after 1995. I've gone through my collection of S&T......

Only the Lumicon deep red Ha - for film was around.

Probably came in when the CCD's started to be popular?

Need to check further.....

 

[Merlin66]

Murnaghan Instruments advertise 1999 Jan having CCD filters including Ha.

No prices......

[Demonperformer]

Was it a case of 'If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it'

[Dave In Vermont]

The first time I became aware of these was around 2,000. And they came from Orion - the US one. They were sold as 'Light-Pollution Filters.' It was only later that we became aware of what these were. The more serious one from Orion was sold for the more terrible LP. For medium LP, you were directed to look at their 'Skyglow Filters.' We know these were what we call today - Medium-Band filters. But their more powerful (and more money) we know today as a narrowband UHC filter. Still sold today, these were very good UHC-filters. And they still are.

The medium-band is still sold by Orion-USA under their name: Skyglow. I can't tell you much more. I never bought the Skyglow, but I did get their UHC narrowband. It's a very nice filter.

Have Fun,

Dave

[Demonperformer]

But are these actually Ha filters?

[Merlin66]

No, they were available as visual filters in the late 1990’s.

I’ll keep looking but I’m pretty sure the driver was the introduction of the early CCD cameras.

 

[Demonperformer]

That would certainly make sense.  I have a Meade catalogue from somewhen in the 1990s that had some ccd cameras in it and a so-called narrowband filter that included Hb,  Ha,  OIII & another peak above the Ha line. I will try to get a scan of it later on.

[Demonperformer]

Basically, where my original question comes from is that I was suggesting that the humble Ha filters that we now pick up for a couple of hundred quid would have been well into 4 figures when it first came out.

However reasonable  (I say!) that assertion may be, it would be nice to have some facts to back it up.

Thanks. 

[John]

1 hour ago, Dave In Vermont said:

The first time I became aware of these was around 2,000. And they came from Orion - the US one. They were sold as 'Light-Pollution Filters.' It was only later that we became aware of what these were. The more serious one from Orion was sold for the more terrible LP. For medium LP, you were directed to look at their 'Skyglow Filters.' We know these were what we call today - Medium-Band filters. But their more powerful (and more money) we know today as a narrowband UHC filter. Still sold today, these were very good UHC-filters. And they still are.

The medium-band is still sold by Orion-USA under their name: Skyglow. I can't tell you much more. I never bought the Skyglow, but I did get their UHC narrowband. It's a very nice filter.

Have Fun,

Dave

I think Dave is referring here to broadband and narrowband filters for nighttime use which have been available since the 1980's at least (judging by the adverts in my old copies of Sky & Telescope magazine etc)

I suspect HA filters that the amateur community could afford came along somewhat later.

[The Admiral]

My guess, and it is just that, is that as they rely on multi-coating technologies, this would have needed to have been perfected for them to be generally available. I have a recollection of Asahi Pentax using multi-coatings on their camera lenses in the late 60's, so by then the technology must have been around for large scale use. Prior to that I would guess professionals would have used expensive etalons to achieve the same end. Like all technology, mass production brings economy of scale, but even here the needs of the amateur astronomer is small fry really.

Ian

[Astrobits]

I listed a Miralux broadband filter in early 1998 for a retail price of £59, so they must have come in before then.

Nigel

 

[Dave In Vermont]

Midband, broadband - They are still claiming they work for LP - which is dubious. Especially now when an ever-increasing number of communities are switching over to the much less expensive LED lighting. These you simply can't block as they put out every wavelength of light under-the-Sun<koff!> and for these, you need to make sure your town or city uses one's with a baffle built-in to direct their light onto the ground, and not upwards into the night-sky.

To my knowledge, it was the Orion-USA UHC that first caught on over here. Then new varieties like the OIII started to be seen on the market. Here's the Orion that first appeared - but for the wrong reason:

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Accessories/Telescope-Eyepiece-Filters/Orion-UltraBlock-Narrowband-Filters/rc/2160/pc/-1/c/3/sc/48/e/71.uts

And the current one's as well:

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Accessories/Telescope-Eyepiece-Filters/rc/2160/pc/3/48.uts

Happy Hunting,

Dave

 

[John]

8 minutes ago, Dave In Vermont said:

Midband, broadband - They are still claiming they work for LP - which is dubious. Especially now when an ever-increasing number of communities are switching over to the much less expensive LED lighting. These you simply can't block as they put out every wavelength of light under-the-Sun<koff!> and for these, you need to make sure your town or city uses one's with a baffle built-in to direct their light onto the ground, and not upwards into the night-sky.

To my knowledge, it was the Orion-USA UHC that first caught on over here. Then new varieties like the OIII started to be seen on the market. Here's the Orion that first appeared - but for the wrong reason:

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Accessories/Telescope-Eyepiece-Filters/Orion-UltraBlock-Narrowband-Filters/rc/2160/pc/-1/c/3/sc/48/e/71.uts

And the current one's as well:

https://www.telescope.com/Orion/Accessories/Telescope-Eyepiece-Filters/rc/2160/pc/3/48.uts

Happy Hunting,

Dave

 

I think the OP's question was specifically on HA narrowband filters Dave.

 

[Dave In Vermont]

Over here, at least, around 2002 was when these came into their own. Along with inexpensive video-AP cameras - though unrelated to each other. They were rare, at first, and cost even more than they do today.

Dave

[Stub Mandrel]

On 31/10/2017 at 09:10, Demonperformer said:

Basically, where my original question comes from is that I was suggesting that the humble Ha filters that we now pick up for a couple of hundred quid would have been well into 4 figures when it first came out.

However reasonable  (I say!) that assertion may be, it would be nice to have some facts to back it up.

Thanks. 

You sound like someone trying to convince the domestic authorities that £180 for a scrap of glass is good value....

[Merlin66]

Well I'm now at Dec 2006 S&T and there's still no adverts for Ha narrow band filters....some CCD cameras being to appear and RGB filter sets.....

I'll keep looking.

 

[Demonperformer]

Someone has suggested that it may be difficult to come to any real conclusions about this, because I will not be comparing like with like. Apparently, a lot of the early ones had bandwidths of upto 10* those of today and also they tended to have soft coatings that were liable to easy damage. He went on to say that 7 years ago the 7nm Baader Ha filter was about 80% of today's price and that quality is the greater driving force than demand.

This leads me to suspect that I am not going to be able to arrive at any sensible answer (along the lines of comparing prices of computer hard drives across the years).