QHY Polemaster HELP

[p14b]

Hi all

Does anyone know if its possible to use the Polemaster if Polaris is only just above the roof line of my house.

Basically i'm set up on the very edge of my patio and my house hides most things in the NW sky, luckily Polaris sits just above my roof line so at the moment i'm able to use my polar-scope to get a good polar alignment, but having starting imaging i would like to get to the next level of accurate polar alignment, looking at the Polar-Master results from others and on google, they look very good but seems it uses some of the stars around Polaris to get its true Alignment using rotation, anyone who has it will know what i mean (Hopefully  ) so with me only having half of a full view because my house cuts off all below! would it still be possible to use Polar-Master just using the stars to the sides and above.  

I hope that makes some sort of sense as any advise would be welcome, as my reply back from QHY-Support reads >

" Hello, If the polaris above your house roof line,perhaps you can not get polar aligned very well."  

Thx Paul

 

[geoflewis]

22 minutes ago, p14b said:

Does anyone know if its possible to use the Polemaster if Polaris is only just above the roof line of my house.

The Polemaster solution works by providing an overlay of the region of the sky around Polaris against which you align the actual view as seen by the Polemaster camera. The field of view (FOV) of the polemaster camera is 11° x 8° (see bullet point 3 from the QHY on line description http://www.qhyccd.com/PoleMaster.html). I would therefore suggest that you will need to be able to see at least 6° of sky between your roof top and Polaris to be sure to get all the stars necessary in the camera view to align them with the provided overlay. I hope that this helps. Geof

[gonzostar]

As Geof has explained well above. Just another question though will the heat from the house also effect the "seeing" of polaris in the green circle? if its to close to the roof?

[geoflewis]

38 minutes ago, p14b said:

looking at the Polar-Master results from others and on google, they look very good

I have the Pole Master and it is good, but I don't think that it will work for you. In addition to using Polemaster for my initial alignment I also use PHD2 drift alignment method, which in my experience gives a more accurate alignment. It is the method that I used for a number of years when I used to have to set up and break down each night and in fact I only purchased the Polemaster to allow me to get a quick initial alignment of my rig when I installed it in an observatory. I have only used the PM once for the initial set up, but will periodically check polar alignment using PHD2 drift alignment, which only takes a few minutes, maybe 10-15 at most, really not much longer than using the PM and at no cost. Given your situation that is the method that I would use. Geof

[p14b]

2 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

I have the Pole Master and it is good, but I don't think that it will work for you. In addition to using Polemaster for my initial alignment I also use PHD2 drift alignment method, which in my experience gives a more accurate alignment. It is the method that I used for a number of years when I used to have to set up and break down each night and in fact I only purchased the Polemaster to allow me to get a quick initial alignment of my rig when I installed it in an observatory. I have only used the PM once for the initial set up, but will periodically check polar alignment using PHD2 drift alignment, which only takes a few minutes, maybe 10-15 at most, really not much longer than using the PM and at no cost. Given your situation that is the method that I would use. Geof

Thx for all the advise, but that level has yet to be reached, only started AP this year with my DSLR for subs upto 30sec, i bought a used SXVF-M25C with added guild camera so was going to try guiding later this year, and i thought the pole master would help!

Don't get me wrong i understand exactly what you say, but i really don't wana run before i can walk.

I do have 1 more option on my setup as both my AVX and CGEM-DX have polar alignment aid on the controller, maybe this would be a better next step as just getting to around 5mins good tracking with nice stars would be more than enough for my next 12 months 

as i really want to move in small steps on this AP work.

Just for the record my roofline shows within my normal polar scope within the main ring which is used to place polaris, so i would guess i have 1 deg at most below. 

Thx Paul  

[geoflewis]

10 minutes ago, p14b said:

i really want to move in small steps on this AP work

Hi Paul, that is wise and sensible approach. Depending on the image scale of your camera + lens / scope and quality of the mount 5 minute subs might be an ambitious ask without guiding. I am not familar with the AVX and CGEM-DX mounts, but I think with even reasonable polar alignment maybe 2-3 minutes is a realistic expectation. You will get quite a lot of detail from a single 2 minute exposure and even more with stacking. Good luck. Geof

[alacant]

Hi. JTOL. How about investing in a conventional guidescope and camera instead? You can then use e.g. PHD2's first rate drift align routine. That way, you don't need to be able to see Polaris at all and have -if you want it- perfect polar alignment to begin imaging. HTH.

[p14b]

2 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

Hi Paul, that is wise and sensible approach. Depending on the image scale of your camera + lens / scope and quality of the mount 5 minute subs might be an ambitious ask without guiding. I am not familar with the AVX and CGEM-DX mounts, but I think with even reasonable polar alignment maybe 2-3 minutes is a realistic expectation. You will get quite a lot of detail from a single 2 minute exposure and even more with stacking. Good luck. Geof

Hi 

30sec is my limit without guiding on both my mounts i just won't go above this whilst learning, but i would like to get 5mins with guiding. This would now have to be done without the aid of Polar-Master.    

[geoflewis]

2 minutes ago, p14b said:

30sec is my limit without guiding on both my mounts i just won't go above this whilst learning, but i would like to get 5mins with guiding. This would now have to be done without the aid of Polar-Master.

 

8 minutes ago, alacant said:

How about investing in a conventional guidescope and camera instead? You can then use e.g. PHD2's first rate drift align routine. That way, you don't need to be able to see Polaris at all and have -if you want it- perfect polar alignment to begin imaging.

Paul, I agree your approach, but also agree with alacant that the route you should take once you are ready is to use PHD2 for guiding and use its excellent drift align tool for polar alignment. It is a remarkably straightforward procedure and extemely accurate. It will definitely get you to your goal of 5 minute subs with round stars, if not even longer sub exposures. Take your time and enjoy the ride... . Geof

[knobby]

+1 for guiding.

[p14b]

8 minutes ago, alacant said:

Hi. JTOL. How about investing in a conventional guidescope and camera instead? You can then use e.g. PHD2's first rate drift align routine. That way, you don't need to be able to see Polaris at all and have -if you want it- perfect polar alignment to begin imaging. HTH.

JTOL  ?  , Thx for the post, Yes i already bought a 60mm guide scope and its already mounted ready, But i have been sticking to 30sec subs with my DSLR to learn for the past 7months, i have now bought a SXVF-M25C camera and this has a smaller extra guide camera so later this year i will use this with the 60mm scope to guide.  i will look into the PHD2 in more depth as i now no Polar Master wont work for me, but thats to say i wouldn't use Drift align at some point anyway, its just not yet.

Thx Paul

 

[alacant]

4 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

It will definitely get you to your goal of 5 minute subs with round stars

+1. Also remember that a guide camera and a guidescope (the latter you probably already have) is gonna cost you a lot less than Polamaster and IMHO be just as if not more accurate:

This and this will get you there. HTH

[p14b]

7 minutes ago, geoflewis said:

 

Paul, I agree your approach, but also agree with alacant that the route you should take once you are ready is to use PHD2 for guiding and use its excellent drift align tool for polar alignment. It is a remarkably straightforward procedure and extemely accurate. It will definitely get you to your goal of 5 minute subs with round stars, if not even longer sub exposures. Take your time and enjoy the ride... . Geof

Well there is my answer then!!, as i'm fine with software so that's no problem, Plus i save £300 on not buying a Polar Master.

I will use my new SXVF-M25C and Guide camera in my 60mm guild/scope with PHD2 and aim for 5 min subs.

That's my next 12 months sorted.

BIG Thx Paul

[p14b]

7 minutes ago, alacant said:

+1. Also remember that a guide camera and a guidescope (the latter you probably already have) is gonna cost you a lot less than Polamaster and IMHO be just as if not more accurate:

This and this will get you there. HTH

LOL that's the 60mm i bought already, Plus i have a GP-Cam,  But having just bought the SXVF-M25C with the added guide camera i was hoping that camera would be ok to use. but if not the Altair GP-Cam will work fine in PHD2 i'm sure.

Thx Paul

 

[alacant]

3 minutes ago, p14b said:

SXVF-M25C

<envy>

Wow, you're in for a real treat!

</envy>

[p14b]

12 minutes ago, alacant said:

<envy>

Wow, you're in for a real treat!

</envy>

I really hope so, i was a little worried as these are quite old now but i got it for £700 and everyone else seems to be asking well over a grand for a used SXVF-M25C, and i really like the size of my APC-s DSLR and its the same size chip.

Not sure about software though!! i will try the SX bungled software as cant really justify PIXSIGHT or what ever its called at £300, but i here Nebulosity is good at around £75, (any views/help here would be welcome as i'm new to software)

And just as i'm typing this my camera has been delivered so i'm gona have a play make sure all works ok

Thx for your help  Paul

[alacant]

28 minutes ago, p14b said:

Not sure about software though

There's an ascom driver. Try APT? HTH.

[rwg]

3 hours ago, p14b said:

Hi all

Does anyone know if its possible to use the Polemaster if Polaris is only just above the roof line of my house.

Basically i'm set up on the very edge of my patio and my house hides most things in the NW sky, luckily Polaris sits just above my roof line so at the moment i'm able to use my polar-scope to get a good polar alignment, but having starting imaging i would like to get to the next level of accurate polar alignment, looking at the Polar-Master results from others and on google, they look very good but seems it uses some of the stars around Polaris to get its true Alignment using rotation, anyone who has it will know what i mean (Hopefully  ) so with me only having half of a full view because my house cuts off all below! would it still be possible to use Polar-Master just using the stars to the sides and above.  

I hope that makes some sort of sense as any advise would be welcome, as my reply back from QHY-Support reads >

" Hello, If the polaris above your house roof line,perhaps you can not get polar aligned very well."  

Thx Paul

 

Sounds like SharpCap polar alignment might do the trick for you - it works through your guide scope which is going to be physically higher up than the polar scope by 30-50cm so the line of sight should clear the roof nicely. It sounds like you already have a guide scope and guide camera, which is basically all he hardware needed. See http://www.sharpcap.co.uk/sharpcap/polar-alignment for more details.

cheers,

Robin

[michael8554]

Would a 16" extension for your mount raise your scope enough to get that  6 degrees of clearance?

Michael

[p14b]

Just now, michael8554 said:

Would a 16" extension for your mount raise your scope enough to get that  6 degrees of clearance?

Michael

Maybe but then i would need a step ladder when using some of my scopes, and i'm only 9 stone when wet so putting the CGEM-DX mount on top of a pier with a extension would make it too heavy for me, in truth michael i'm really glad i asked the question, as i'm only aiming for guiding of about 5mins, and having listened to the help on here i think i already have more than enough gear or tools to achieve this goal, Plus i save £300, i'm going to see what results i get without Polar master and take it from there. 

Thx Paul

[michael8554]

4 minutes ago, p14b said:

Maybe but then i would need a step ladder when using some of my scopes

Ah, hadn't thought of that - doh !

Michael

[p14b]

1 minute ago, michael8554 said:

Ah, hadn't thought of that - doh !

Michael

The weight is more the problem for me, your idea is valid "its an option" and what i asked for so thx 

[michael8554]

You're welcome.

One extra slab on the south edge of your patio isn't an option?

Michael

 

 

[p14b]

Just now, michael8554 said:

You're welcome.

One extra slab on the south edge of your patio isn't an option?

Michael

 

 

Already gone back 2 more flags worth before i put in the pier, any more and i get the full glare of a LED street lamp.

I'm in the prime spot, and i have my pier at the perfect height so i can carry the CGEM-DX mount and drop it in place safely.

It all sounds bad!! but its not in truth as i get a nice view from NE to SW, between 7 100ft Popular trees LOL!!, there is always something of interest to view.

I think if i was 180deg facing the other way i wouldn't be on here asking questions, the only thing after 10 years looking up i know about the north side of the sky is Polaris lives there.

Thx paul  

[michael8554]

4 minutes ago, p14b said:

and i have my pier at the perfect height so i can carry the CGEM-DX mount and drop it in place safely.

You have a pier?

Once you've carried out a good drift align to the Northeast and South, doesn't the mount drop in next time ready to go?

Michael