Guiding

[emyliano2000]

Hello. I have a question about a LVI smartguider 2. I recently purchased a canon 700d that I'm planning to modify for astrogphotography and i wanna get the LVI smartguider 2. Would it work with my skywatcher enchanced dual axis motordrives? The hand controler has a st4 port so I presume it should work but I just wanna be sure before I buy it. And I was thinking of converting my 9x50 finder scope into a guide scope. I found something on ebay but I'm not sure if they would work with my finderscope.  Could you please help me out. 

Emil

[cjdawson]

Looks like it should be ok from a mechanical front as the picture looked like there was an st4 port on the blue box.

however, I'd be more interested in the sensitivity of the camera.    If you check out my recent posts, you'll see that I've just ditched a synguider Ii because the camera wasn't sensitive enough to be able the see enough guide stars to be useful or reliable.   I just spent out on a Starlight Xpress Superstar and have see that it is in a completely different league when it comes to sensitivity.   Check out that the camera will be able to see enough to make the guider useful. After all, can't guide if you can't get a lock.

[emyliano2000]

Starlight express looks very good indeed but I'm after an autoguider that doesn't require a connection to a laptop just because I'm planning to have most of my imaging sessions out in the field.

Thanks

[wxsatuser]

The Lacerta MGEN does'nt need a pc.
It has camera control, dithers and has a nice Sony sensored camera that works nicely with a 50 or 60mm finder.

It's a bit more expensive but imo worth it.

[alacant]

On 12/11/2016 at 01:26, emyliano2000 said:

a LVI smartguider 2

 

I couldn't get it to work but almost certainly not the fault of the kit;) HTH.

[emyliano2000]

2 hours ago, alacant said:

 

I couldn't get it to work but almost certainly not the fault of the kit;) HTH.

Did you try it with the sw enchanced dual axis drive? What was the problem?

[emyliano2000]

On Saturday, November 12, 2016 at 08:14, wxsatuser said:

The Lacerta MGEN does'nt need a pc.
It has camera control, dithers and has a nice Sony sensored camera that works nicely with a 50 or 60mm finder.

It's a bit more expensive but imo worth it.

That's a little too expensive for me. 

[alacant]

2 hours ago, emyliano2000 said:

Did you try it with the sw enchanced dual axis drive?

Hi. I used an eq6. For the same outlay you can get a good camera, but you'd need a computer. A windows tablet isn't that much of a burden compared to the lvi hardware but I can see the attraction of computer-less. 

[cjdawson]

I'm with @alacant on this. From my experience (although not with the LVI system) the key to good guiding is in the camera rather than the rest of the setup.  Before spending any money on a computer-less guiding system ask the question about how sensitive the camera is.  If you cannot lock on a guide star, the whole system fails.  I've learned the hard way that you need a sensitive camera.  Whilst I still have to prove that my current setup is good, the camera cost more than my last two guiding systems alone.

 

I can't stress how important the camera is in this setup.   For years, I've been struggling to get good guiding, every time the problem was that I couldn't find a suitable guide star.    Whilst there is advantages to being PC less, times are changing.

The problems with laptops are that the batteries do not last for long enough - my new laptop claims 10 hours battery life.  I very much doubt I'll get that, indeed I'm not going to even try.   I'm going to try and get a 12V power adapter for it if I can find one that will supply 45watts from a leister battery (my experience is they tend to cut out dew to voltage drop), so I do haven in inverter that I can use.    The other problem is the number of cables handing around, this can be mitigated to some extent, by using USB hubs at the scope, or using cable management things.

The other thing to think about is that laptops are powerful enough these days that they can easily run guiding software and do other things at the same time.  For example, I'm going to be using BackyardEOS for my camera work.  This means that I can use the laptop screen instead of the screen on the camera.  There's software helpers for things like focussing - indeed some pieces of software can even do auto-focussing if you have access to an electric focusser.

There are other advantages to having a laptop available to you in the field.

 

All I'm saying here is make sure that you are not trying to make a false economy.

[emyliano2000]

Well I think I'm gonna have to save up for the Lacerta MGEN then. Hope it will work.

[alacant]

Phew. OK. Just wondering what an asi120mm and a 6" tablet running phd2 would cost. It amounts to the same amount of hardware but less cost than the lacerta. And you'd get a much better screen output. JTOL and HTH.

[cjdawson]

@emyliano2000 in my opinion you are still left with exactly the same question that I was posing in the first place... how sensitive is the camera in the guider?  Will it be able to acquire a suitable guide star for every object that you wish to image?   In addition there is a technique that I'm learning about called dithering.   What it does is intentionally move the scope slightly so that the images stars are not all landing on the same pixels on the imaging camera sensor.  It's a technique to help with noise reduction.    So far every stand alone guider that I've seen does not offer this feature.

 

It's these questions, which I was against for the best part of 5 years, in the end I saw that it was a futile effort.   I've given up trying to fight what pretty much every successful astro photographer has been doing.   I managed to do a crude star test of my new guide camera and without trying was able to get a good image of a mag 7 star. Wasn't even trying, as the shot wasn't even tracking.  Where as with my stand alone guider I was struggling to guide on a mag 3 star.   I hope this gives some idea of the difference.  To test things out, open a planetarium program limit it to showing mag 3 stars only. And you'll see what a limited choice you get.  Then limit it to Mag 7 and see the difference.   After you do that, you'll appreciate why it's worth the extra cost and a little time spent getting a computer based system up and running with a camera that can see lower mag stars.

[emyliano2000]

1 hour ago, cjdawson said:

dithering

Looking at the specifications dithering is possible with the Lacerta MGEN II and the camera seams pretty decent. The trouble is that I own a desktop computer. My wife woud go bonkers if I would use her laptop for my astro stuff and I don't have a windows tablet, I only have an android one.

[MeyGray3833]

On 11/12/2016 at 10:56, emyliano2000 said:

The hand controler has a st4 port so I presume it should work but I just wanna be sure before I buy it.

What sort of Skywatcher mount is it? The guide port is usually on the mount, not on the hand controller. If its an EQ6 it is on the side panel or an EQ5 is on the RA behind the Dec.

[wxsatuser]

20 hours ago, alacant said:

Phew. OK. Just wondering what an asi120mm and a 6" tablet running phd2 would cost. It amounts to the same amount of hardware but less cost than the lacerta. And you'd get a much better screen output. JTOL and HTH.

The only time you need the little screen with the Lacerta is when picking your guide star.
Yes, the screen is small but quite honestly you don't want to be watching that all night.

I used to use a Starshoot guider with PHD but it was a pain as it would guide ok sometimes
but when my back was turned it would throw a big spike, or a good guide star would suddenly satuarate etc.

Once I learnt how to use the Lacerta, it takes a while but once sorted it just guides and no hissy fits.
I no longer had to worry and could leave the obsy unattended.

It is quite expensive but the camera has a Sony sensor and I could always find a star with my 60mm guidescope.
The menus take a bit getting used to but it does exactly what it's supposed to do when it's mastered.
Good thing now, only one cable to laptop for goto with CdC

[alacant]

Yes, I agree. The one cable would nail it for me too and if I could afford it, it would be the Lacerta. No contest over the spaghetti. I was merely trying to point out a possible more economical alternative.