eyepiece sets question!!

[Dark Lawton]

I have been told that the meade 4000 eye piece set is decent if not good but is it better than the celeston set., please comment your thoughts on this and also any suggestion thanks in advance

 

Mark

[faulksy]

hi mark, your quite right about the meade being quite good but might not suit your telescope. we need to know what scope you have, and idealy what your budget and interests are

[Dark Lawton]

I was told that they would suit my celestron 5se was I told wrong and budget not mater at the min tbh abut 300 give or takeor and interest are mainly observing then moving on from there at a later date tbh am just starting out

[triton1]

I would stay away from eyepiece sets because some you will not use better to buy them individually as when you think you need them.

[Dark Lawton]

what would you suggest would be the most useful eye pieces I would use the most?? 

[John]

1 hour ago, Dark Lawton said:

what would you suggest would be the most useful eye pieces I would use the most?? 

For what scope ?

The answer could vary depending what scope you will be using.

[Dark Lawton]

celeston 5se

[Louis D]

Your scope has a 1250mm focal length with an f/10 focal ratio.  You'll want a widest field eyepiece, a mid-power eyepiece, and a high power eyepiece at the very least.  If you only have a 1.25" visual back and star diagonal, I would recommend a 32mm plossl or 24mm to 28mm wide field eyepiece for your widest field eyepiece.  This yields about 40x to 50x.  Next, you'll want something between 75x and 100x.  This would equate to a 12mm to 17mm eyepiece for your mid-power eyepiece.  This is where I would spend a little more on a quality wide field eyepiece.  For your high power eyepiece, you'll want something around 0.7mm to 1mm exit pupil.  This equates to about a 7mm to 10mm eyepiece yielding between 125x and 175x.  These three eyepieces would give you a good range of powers to start with.  You could also get a 0.63x focal reducer/corrector to get wider fields of view than the lowest power eyepiece will yield by itself.  I'll let you research what's available in each focal length range as far as price and quality and come back here with questions.

[Dark Lawton]

I have a 9mm x-cell ep's at the mo that about the best ep I got so far apart from some cheaper ones and the 25 mm one that came with it, but that's not a bad quality ep, am still working on buy some more tho I just spent 800 in total for the scope and power tank and some other things, but thanks for the advice I will be looking to buy these ep you suggest on Friday my payday lol

[ronin]

At f/10 I would at least at this time leave out eyepieces below, or much below, 10mm.

As £300 is mentioned this brings to my mind the BST Starguiders, you could get 5 of them for £250. The 5mm is I guess pointless but the 8mm may me usable at times. Since you have the X-Cel 9mm then maybe a few more of them. I will say that the 5mm in those is likely too short and even the 7mm will be at what I suggest is the realistic limit in terms of magnification.

One aspect is what exactly is the X-Cel that you have? X-Cel or X-Cel LX. Both exist and the LX's are the newer and better ones. If it is an X-Cel - no LX - then I would actually suggest keeping it and getting the BST's. If it is a X-Cel LX then look to simply getting additional LX's to go with it.

Next range up seem to be the ES 8's and 82's, both similar prices, however these are around the £100-150 mark and so a fair jump in cost.

[spaceboy]

Eyepiece sets are under rated I feel. They are designed as an easy and cheap way to get you up and running and offer you marginally better quality views than telescope supplied eyepieces. Amongst more seasoned astronomers the advantages of such sets are over looked but for beginners who have limited budgets and interest in the hobby they serve many well. The Meade 4000 eyepieces are not bad at all, for a plossl that is.

For those beginners who are sure astronomy is for them and are willing to invest more hard earned £'s in the hobby there are better budget eyepieces out there though and the BST starguiders offer a 60° afov over the 52° of a standard plossl and they also offer far better eye relief making them more comfortable to use than the Meade 4000's http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Skys-the-Limit-Astro-and-Optical/BST-Starguider-ED-/_i.html?_fsub=2568750014

The good thing is the slower 5se is going to work well with most eyepieces but if you intend to go wider and deeper in the future with a larger and faster scope eyepiece selection tends to become more critical due to eyepiece aberrations and coma becoming more apparent.

[Dark Lawton]

1 hour ago, ronin said:

At f/10 I would at least at this time leave out eyepieces below, or much below, 10mm.

As £300 is mentioned this brings to my mind the BST Starguiders, you could get 5 of them for £250. The 5mm is I guess pointless but the 8mm may me usable at times. Since you have the X-Cel 9mm then maybe a few more of them. I will say that the 5mm in those is likely too short and even the 7mm will be at what I suggest is the realistic limit in terms of magnification.

One aspect is what exactly is the X-Cel that you have? X-Cel or X-Cel LX. Both exist and the LX's are the newer and better ones. If it is an X-Cel - no LX - then I would actually suggest keeping it and getting the BST's. If it is a X-Cel LX then look to simply getting additional LX's to go with it.

Next range up seem to be the ES 8's and 82's, both similar prices, however these are around the £100-150 mark and so a fair jump in cost.

its the x-cell lx, and what mm ep's would you suggest for observing planets and some dpo's in the lx range ???

[Dark Lawton]

37 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

Eyepiece sets are under rated I feel. They are designed as an easy and cheap way to get you up and running and offer you marginally better quality views than telescope supplied eyepieces. Amongst more seasoned astronomers the advantages of such sets are over looked but for beginners who have limited budgets and interest in the hobby they serve many well. The Meade 4000 eyepieces are not bad at all, for a plossl that is.

For those beginners who are sure astronomy is for them and are willing to invest more hard earned £'s in the hobby there are better budget eyepieces out there though and the BST starguiders offer a 60° afov over the 52° of a standard plossl and they also offer far better eye relief making them more comfortable to use than the Meade 4000's http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Skys-the-Limit-Astro-and-Optical/BST-Starguider-ED-/_i.html?_fsub=2568750014

The good thing is the slower 5se is going to work well with most eyepieces but if you intend to go wider and deeper in the future with a larger and faster scope eyepiece selection tends to become more critical due to eyepiece aberrations and coma becoming more apparent.

Hi, I got a 25mm plossl ep with my scope and it don't seem too bad tho I do know its not the best out there and what if any set would you suggest to get me started for viewing planets and some dpo's also I looked at the link you sent on ebay and if I was to buy them separate like they are shown on there which would you suggest for the same reason I stated above

thanks

Mark

[spaceboy]

To start off with use this useful app (thanks to FLO) http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ This will give you an idea of magnifications, FOV and exit pupil.

For planets the UK skies tend to limit the magnification to around x200 which can be stretched to x300 on the moon. I personally find that on most nights a magnification of x166 works best for me but this depends a lot on your skies and location.

DSO's often require wider FOV but this all depends on what you like looking at. Larger open clusters and nebulas require a much wider FOV or less magnification depending of the AFOV of the eyepiece. Where as if your interest in planetary nebulas and globular clusters then FOV is less important. It has been noted that almost all DSO are at their best when you have an exit pupil of 2-3mm so also take this in to consideration.

 

HTH

[Dark Lawton]

2 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

To start off with use this useful app (thanks to FLO) http://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ This will give you an idea of magnifications, FOV and exit pupil.

For planets the UK skies tend to limit the magnification to around x200 which can be stretched to x300 on the moon. I personally find that on most nights a magnification of x166 works best for me but this depends a lot on your skies and location.

DSO's often require wider FOV but this all depends on what you like looking at. Larger open clusters require a much wider FOV or less magnification depending of the AFOV of the eyepiece. It has been noted that DSO are best when you have an exit pupil of 2-3mm so also take this in to consideration.

 

HTH

its worth mentioning that am a noob to all astronomy tho am eager to learn that's why I asked for suggestions, I did want to start this hobby a long time ago but only just been able to afford a decent scope the 5se I was going to go for a more expensive one but baring in mind this is my first real scope with I am enjoying very much

 

thanks

 

Mark

[spaceboy]

I have always tried my hardest to remain neutral and realistic when it comes to offering advice to beginners in astronomy. We all have hobbies we want to give a go, some we do enjoy and others that we give up on. Astronomy is hard. It requires you to stay out late at night in the cold and damp often looking at tiny smudges that are barely visible. I'm not trying to put you off in anyway more so suggesting you take your time and make sure the hobby is for you before you go out spending copious amounts of cash. This is where eyepiece sets come in to their own. You get a selection of magnifications along with filters (again also under rated IMO) and often a barlow. Sure they are not top quality but they offer you a chance to decide roughly what focal lengths work for you and don't cost an arm and a leg.

The trouble is when you ask advice on an astronomy forum your going to get advice back from astronomers. We are already hooked on the hobby and think nothing of spending £100-£300 on a single eyepiece. When you say the 5se is your first real scope what other experience do you have? I may come across as offering you all the negatives of the hobby but then this is often what breaks enthusiasm in people not the positives. I started off with a collection of TAL plossl that cost me a total of £150 and they served me well for several years. As my interest grew in the hobby I invested more money in astro kit and sold my old kit to help funds. On another note I also took up golf. In the years I spent smacking balls around I spent a fortune on golf clubs thinking it would improve my game to only find I wasted my money. Soon after I sold up at a huge loss. I am aware that some beginners think that buying new eyepieces is going to significantly improve the views or reveal something that was not already there. Just as I thought better clubs was going to improve my chances of getting a birdie.

17 hours ago, Dark Lawton said:

I have been told that the meade 4000 eye piece set is decent if not good but is it better than the celeston set., please comment your thoughts on this and also any suggestion thanks in advance

 

Mark

In answer to your original question. Yes the Meade set is good and will work well in your scope. Is it better than the Celestron set is questionable as they are both at the end of the day budget plossl. Your choice should be based on what focal lengths they offer. In the case of the 5se longer focal length eyepieces will generally see more use. Using the FOV calculator will give you an idea of what FL will and won't work.

[Dark Lawton]

12 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

I have always tried my hardest to remain neutral and realistic when it comes to offering advice to beginners in astronomy. We all have hobbies we want to give a go, some we do enjoy and others that we give up on. Astronomy is hard. It requires you to stay out late at night in the cold and damp often looking at tiny smudges that are barely visible. I'm not trying to put you off in anyway more so suggesting you take your time and make sure the hobby is for you before you go out spending copious amounts of cash. This is where eyepiece sets come in to their own. You get a selection of magnifications along with filters (again also under rated IMO) and often a barlow. Sure they are not top quality but they offer you a chance to decide roughly what focal lengths work for you and don't cost an arm and a leg.

The trouble is when you ask advice on an astronomy forum your going to get advice back from astronomers. We are already hooked on the hobby and think nothing of spending £100-£300 on a single eyepiece. When you say the 5se is your first real scope what other experience do you have? I may come across as offering you all the negatives of the hobby but then this is often what breaks enthusiasm in people not the positives. I started off with a collection of TAL plossl that cost me a total of £150 and they served me well for several years. As my interest grew in the hobby I invested more money in astro kit and sold my old kit to help funds. On another note I also took up golf. In the years I spent smacking balls around I spent a fortune on golf clubs thinking it would improve my game to only find I wasted my money. Soon after I sold up at a huge loss. I am aware that some beginners think that buying new eyepieces is going to significantly improve the views or reveal something that was not already there. Just as I thought better clubs was going to improve my chances of getting a birdie.

In answer to your original question. Yes the Meade set is good and will work well in your scope. Is it better than the Celestron set is questionable as they are both at the end of the day budget plossl. Your choice should be based on what focal lengths they offer. In the case of the 5se longer focal length eyepieces will generally see more use. Using the FOV calculator will give you an idea of what FL will and won't work.

tbh it is an hobby I am sticking with that's is why I torn between the meade set or buying a few x-cell xl starting with a 3 mm but am also considering these that was link earlier http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-12mm-BST-Explorer-Dual-ED-eyepiece-Branded-Starguider-/381664565469

Mark

[spaceboy]

The 3mm will give you x416 and be a total waste of money. As mentioned above UK seeing rarely permits useable magnifications above x200. The moon is big and bright an for this reason allows for much higher magnifications but even so the 3mm again would fall short of expectations due to the 0.3mm exit pupil making the views very dim and prone to floaters. Ideally you don't want to go below 6mm and even then clarity will depend on seeing conditions.

[Dark Lawton]

I may go for the meade kit just to start off with then replace cirtain ep's with more expensive ones, I mean the ones I tend to use the most, think that would make sense in the long run or the celestron kit not sure which would be best if there is any difference in them

[Dark Lawton]

what do we think about this one https://www.firstlightoptics.com/eyepiece-sets/baader-classic-eyepiece-set-with-turret.html

[spaceboy]

3 hours ago, ronin said:

At f/10 I would at least at this time leave out eyepieces below, or much below, 10mm.

As £300 is mentioned this brings to my mind the BST Starguiders, you could get 5 of them for £250. The 5mm is I guess pointless but the 8mm may me usable at times.

If as you say you already intend to stick at the hobby then I'd go with Ronin's advice. The BST Starguiders are a good performer but will not cost a great deal more than the Meade set. I agree with Ronin in that the 5mm would be pointless but you could get the 8,12,15,18 & 25 mm. I believe there is also a 32mm but under a different brand.

[Dark Lawton]

11 minutes ago, spaceboy said:

If as you say you already intend to stick at the hobby then I'd go with Ronin's advice. The BST Starguiders are a good performer but will not cost a great deal more than the Meade set. I agree with Ronin in that the 5mm would be pointless but you could get the 8,12,15,18 & 25 mm. I believe there is also a 32mm but under a different brand.

ya right it would be around 250 off ebay, so may buy those but I still wanted ya opinion on these because I was told they are also decent brand ep's https://www.firstlightoptics.com/eyepiece-sets/baader-classic-eyepiece-set-with-turret.html

[spaceboy]

BCO's are very good value for money. They are with the exception of the 32mm orthoscopic eyepieces as apposed to plossl but offer a similar size FOV 50° to the 52° plossl over most ortho which only have 40°-42°. They do show some distortion around the outer edges but the contrast and clarity is in keeping with most orthoscopic eyepieces. The turret will add some extension and so push the focus point back a little ways but this should not be a problem in the 5se. The turret can by it's own design also introduce it's own alignment issues so this is something to bear in mind if you were to consider the kit.

I think the BCO's would have the slight edge regards sharpness and contrast but would loose out regards fov and comfort of use to the BST's. While comfort is not always something people consider if they are not a spectacle wearer it is something that can make the difference to how relaxed you are when taking in subtle details. If your straining and squinting with one eye open and one eye shut it can easily lead to fatigue and a nights observing cut short. To really see those details on tiny pea sized planets you have to spend a little extra time studying those details in flyting seconds of calm seeing and if your not relaxed your more likely to miss them moments. It is worth noting BCO's are more comfortable to use than plossl and this is more apparent the shorter the focal lengths.

 

[Dark Lawton]

On ‎27‎/‎08‎/‎2016 at 16:29, spaceboy said:

BCO's are very good value for money. They are with the exception of the 32mm orthoscopic eyepieces as apposed to plossl but offer a similar size FOV 50° to the 52° plossl over most ortho which only have 40°-42°. They do show some distortion around the outer edges but the contrast and clarity is in keeping with most orthoscopic eyepieces. The turret will add some extension and so push the focus point back a little ways but this should not be a problem in the 5se. The turret can by it's own design also introduce it's own alignment issues so this is something to bear in mind if you were to consider the kit.

I think the BCO's would have the slight edge regards sharpness and contrast but would loose out regards fov and comfort of use to the BST's. While comfort is not always something people consider if they are not a spectacle wearer it is something that can make the difference to how relaxed you are when taking in subtle details. If your straining and squinting with one eye open and one eye shut it can easily lead to fatigue and a nights observing cut short. To really see those details on tiny pea sized planets you have to spend a little extra time studying those details in flyting seconds of calm seeing and if your not relaxed your more likely to miss them moments. It is worth noting BCO's are more comfortable to use than plossl and this is more apparent the shorter the focal lengths.

 

I think I am going to have to got for an ep set as there are a few other things I am going to purchase for my next scope, so if you could recommend a decent ep set I would be very grateful, I did put a few links there in the above post to 3 sets so let me know what ya think please, thanks got the advice in advance   

[Putaendo Patrick]

If this i what you are thinking of, the Meade 4000 kit costs about 200 pounds and comes with 6 Plossl EPs plus a Barlow and a few filters in an aluminium box. Bought individually the EPs cost an average of 30 pounds each.

The EPs are: 6.4mm, 9.7mm, 12.4mm, 15mm, 32mm and 40mm. In theory, using the x2 Barlow will extend the range with 3.2mm, 4.8mm, 6.2mm, 7.5mm, 16mm and 20mm.

Frankly I would suggest this is too much, with considerable redundant overlap and some magnifications which will be difficult to use. The quality of the Barlow may not be particularly good, and this may be a weak link in the optical train. You will probably not have too much use for the filters (which in any case you could buy later). The Meade 4000 series are acceptable EPs for their price, but overall the kit doesn't offer a fantastic deal. With patience, you may also find these (and similar) EPs second-hand at under 20 pounds each.

However, with a budget of 200-300 pounds, I personally would assemble a collection of fewer EPs but with better quality, possibly thinking of a better Barlow either now or in the future. As you say, you already have a good 9mm as well as a 25mm which should be good enough for the moment.

As you gain experience in this hobby, you will begin to find out what type of targets most interest you, for example, Moon and planets, double stars, DSOs etc. and this will determine the magnifications and field of views that you need. You may also find some types of EP are more comfortable than others, high magnification Plossls for example have very limited eye relief meaning your eyeball has to be very close to the glass.

About a year ago Mark Lawton started an astronomy group in Barnsley, I don't know how it's worked out. But, if they have observing evenings that you can attend, you will have the opportunity to see and look through different EPs and discuss their merits with their owners: https://www.facebook.com/groups/Barnsley.Astronomy/

Perhaps your cheapest option for now would be to buy a decent x2 Barlow, for example the X-Cel. This would extend your 9mm (x138) to give a magnification of x276, really an absolute maximum in the UK and really only for the Moon. The 25mm (x50) with the Barlow would give x100. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/barlows/celestron-x-cel-barlow.html

Then I might add a 15mm EP which would give x83 and x165 with the Barlow, for example: https://www.firstlightoptics.com/vixen-eyepieces/vixen-npl-eyepieces.html

Another option you might consider is the Baader 8-24mm zoom, possibly packaged with the Baader Barlow which will give 3.5mm to 10.5mm, which should work very well in your telescope and give you an almost complete range of magnifications. https://www.firstlightoptics.com/baader-planetarium/baader-hyperion-zoom-eyepiece.html