Help with processing M42

[abodee2]

Hi,

I'm having a go at processing with no lucky really and i'm not sure if its my frames or processing skills, or its position in the sky when i took it (very low) or a mix of all.

This is the DSS file with no post processing in photoshop if anyone wants to have a go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/x0y9f8j7fflx02b/DSS-M42.TIF?dl=0 , I always have a hard time bringing out the colour in photoshop - not really sure what to do i just play about with all the settings and see what happens really! 

It's 30 x 30s and 20 x 20s + 10 darks, ISO 800

I wanted to take longer exposure times but i didn't bring my shutter release cable as I wasn't expecting to see Orion, was just planning on imaging the eclipse

And this is all i'm getting out of it in photoshop: 

[Purplehayze104]

nice image, but would suggest maybe a bit more tweeking with levels & curves in Photoshop or more subs, also most of the time I play with the levels in DSS itself before I save image as if I don't it comes into PS very dark indeed, i'm by no means the best person to give advise, but sure someone will be along with a lot more help.

regards

john

[Astroboffin]

Hi,

I think when you finish in DSS, you should click the box that says "Embedd but do not apply"

Then when you move the file to photoshop all the image data will still be there and you can manipulate it.

What you are doing by the look of it, is applying the results from DSS, and as DSS is not a very good processing you are losing a hell of a lot of the original data, and hence not much to work with.

Try doing as I say above, then move the output to PS and then just do some basic levels and curves, and you may be very very surprised at the difference it will make.

The setting I mention above should always be checked, I don't think there are any circumstances that I know of where you will want to apply the results from DSS, all you want DSS to do is stack the images, and nothing else.

Hope that helps

AB

[abodee2]

Hi,

I think when you finish in DSS, you should click the box that says "Embedd but do not apply"

Then when you move the file to photoshop all the image data will still be there and you can manipulate it.

What you are doing by the look of it, is applying the results from DSS, and as DSS is not a very good processing you are losing a hell of a lot of the original data, and hence not much to work with.

Try doing as I say above, then move the output to PS and then just do some basic levels and curves, and you may be very very surprised at the difference it will make.

The setting I mention above should always be checked, I don't think there are any circumstances that I know of where you will want to apply the results from DSS, all you want DSS to do is stack the images, and nothing else.

Hope that helps

AB

Hi AB,

I've just done that but the problem is that when I now open it in photoshop it's so dark that adjusting any of the levels dont do much! When i open the saved file from DSS now, it looks as it did straight after stacking before any adjustments. Am i missing something? 

Ali

[Purplehayze104]

Hi AB,

I've just done that but the problem is that when I now open it in photoshop it's so dark that adjusting any of the levels dont do much! When i open the saved file from DSS now, it looks as it did straight after stacking before any adjustments. Am i missing something? 

Ali

that's wot I get, even embedding but do not apply gives me same results, only if I save the embedded mods do I get anything appearing brighter in PS, maybe im just a bit to timid with the mods in PS as still sorta learning processing.

[Astroboffin]

Hi,

That is correct the image you take into PS should look like the stacked image before any adjustments, because you did not apply them, that is how it should be, you don't want DSS to do any adjustments because it is not good at photo editing, leave that to PS.

All you want DSS to do is stack the images and nothing else.

The setting I talked about earlier should alway be checked, as you don't want the the changes applied,,as it will clip all the data

Post a link to the new output file with the settings embedded but not applied, and let me have a go, as it just might be a total lack of data in the first place, but you must stick with the setting I mention, I can't stress that enough, it just may not be working in this instance.

AB

[Astroboffin]

Here is one of my very early attempts the first image was straight from DSS 10 x 3 min subs just stacked

The second image, although not very good at all, was the result when manipulated in PS

AB

[Owmuchonomy]

Re-run it in DSS and make sure it saves it as a 32 bit TIFF file.  You need to set this up in the Save preferences in DSS.  Don't do anything else to it in DSS.  Export it to PS and using Mode options to convert it to a 16 bit.  Also, load the 32 bit file directly to dropbox, let me know, and I'll have a look at it to see if it is your DSS settings or otherwise that are the problem.

[Astroboffin]

Hi again

This is what I got from your tif file you posted earlier, the centre is blown out, but that will always happens unless you take some very short exposures of around 25 to 35 seconds and add to the stacked file, this will enable some detail to be kept in the centre regions.

But as you can see there is some detail there, albeit a bit faint, so,let me have the new file and I will have ago with that.

AB

[toxic]

good first go - i had a go at your stacked image and here it is.

 it looks like it was misty or high thin cloud when it was taken or dew on the lens.

your core was fine you need longer exposures to get the outer detail, and 1 tip rotate your camera by 1 quarter to the left or right and it will get more outer structure in the frame.

[ollypenrice]

Do you know about stretching in Levels and Curves? Rob covers this very nicely here.

http://www.middlehillobservatory.co.uk/articles-primers/Levels%20and%20curves.htm

If you go for longer subs you could start to get clever and use layer masks to blend them with short ones! Don't under any circumstances just throw all your sub lengths into one stack. Here's a tutorial. http://www.astropix.com/HTML/J_DIGIT/LAYMASK.HTM

Olly

[abodee2]

Re-run it in DSS and make sure it saves it as a 32 bit TIFF file.  You need to set this up in the Save preferences in DSS.  Don't do anything else to it in DSS.  Export it to PS and using Mode options to convert it to a 16 bit.  Also, load the 32 bit file directly to dropbox, let me know, and I'll have a look at it to see if it is your DSS settings or otherwise that are the problem.

Hi again

This is what I got from your tif file you posted earlier, the centre is blown out, but that will always happens unless you take some very short exposures of around 25 to 35 seconds and add to the stacked file, this will enable some detail to be kept in the centre regions.

But as you can see there is some detail there, albeit a bit faint, so,let me have the new file and I will have ago with that.

File 29-09-2015, 13 28 55.jpg

AB

Ok, i've re-run the stack in DSS, saved with the setting 'embedded but not applied' and uploaded this to dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/jvdm6m84s0aoqz4/DSS-M42.TIF?dl=0

Do you know about stretching in Levels and Curves? Rob covers this very nicely here.

http://www.middlehillobservatory.co.uk/articles-primers/Levels%20and%20curves.htm

If you go for longer subs you could start to get clever and use layer masks to blend them with short ones! Don't under any circumstances just throw all your sub lengths into one stack. Here's a tutorial. http://www.astropix.com/HTML/J_DIGIT/LAYMASK.HTM

Olly

Thanks Olly, I'll have a read of that just now and have a go! You said dont throw all my sub lengths into one stack - now the ones i've used here are 30 x 30s and 20 x 20s, so would this apply to my subs or is that really for much longer subs > 1min?

good first go - i had a go at your stacked image and here it is.

 it looks like it was misty or high thin cloud when it was taken or dew on the lens.

your M-42.jpg

your core was fine you need longer exposures to get the outer detail, and 1 tip rotate your camera by 1 quarter to the left or right and it will get more outer structure in the frame.

Thank you!

[Owmuchonomy]

That version is the same as the last one, 16 bit.  I can get much out of that at all. Sorry.

[abodee2]

That version is the same as the last one, 16 bit.  I can get much out of that at all. Sorry.

There are two version of 32 bit that I can save it as: integer or rational? 

[Astrosurf]

You can group your separate stacks in separate File Groups in DSS. See the tabs on the bottom of the screen. I've not done it so please ask on here.

Yes, the file from DSS will be very dark. Do short iterations of Levels and only use the left and central sliders to start with. Then, when you get a thin flat line to the right of the curve (mostly caused by stars), bring the right hand slider to roughly where it stops. Don't go in too far or you'll blow out the stars.

I always anchor the white point in Curves (top right hand side) with two adjustment points. I also do that for the bottom, dark point to avoid clipping the black point, later in the processing. When you get the colour coming out, copy the layer, then change the copy's Blending Mode to Colour.

Then have a go with Hue and Saturation and other adjustments. It just changes the colour as an overlay. I also use Gaussian Blur on it a little, to reduce colour noise.

A starter for 10!

Alexxx

[Owmuchonomy]

The file that the poster provided is already clipped at the black point.

[Astroboffin]

The file that the poster provided is already clipped at the black point.

Yes totally agree, as the changes in DSS were applied instead of just embedded, makes a big difference.

AB

[Astrosurf]

The file that the poster provided is already clipped at the black point.

Yep, my advice is for when he re-stacks the subs with the advice he has here.