Do I buy a new telescope ?

[joecoyle]

Hi guys

New to astrophotography. I've taken a couple of great (IMO) images with my unmodded Eos 100D which seem clear for the absolute beginner.

I have a Celestron NexStar 6SE which is f/10 mounted on a Celestron Advanced VX mount.

If I'm seriously considering astrophotography, and buying mono CCDs and a guidescope and auto guiders... Do I first need to stop and ask myself the question ...

1) Do I need a better telescope?

Or:

2) Do I buy a mono CCD and guidescope and autoguider and experiment with my 6SE?

Has anyone fitted guidescopes to a 6SE? I don't know where to start attaching things.

If it's 1) buy a new scope: What would a good telescope be for beginning astrophotography ?

If it's 2) buy CCD and guider: I'm looking at an Atik 414EX and Orion starshoot autoguider. Thoughts??

Many thanks - I know there's like 5 questions in one

Joe

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[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Much depends on what you want to image. Given your use of a DSLR, I assume you are looking at DSOs. A short, fast refractor like the SW80ED is a lot better for this kind of work than an SCT at F/10 (a reducer does of course help a lot). I have done some attempts at unguided DSO AP last winter, and my 80mm F/6 triplet with 0.8x reducer gave some nice first results (nothing great, however, as I did not manage to gather enough data). For guided imaging I plan to attach a Skywatcher ST-80 as guide scope using a side-by side mounting bar, in the same way I mounted the two solar scopes in the image below

I intend to use a modded DSLR first, together with my planetary camera as guider, before considering a (very expensive) mono CCD

[joecoyle]

Thanks Michael for the prompt reply.

Yes. Should have said intention is to image DSO.

I assume the Skywatcher 80 ED is a goto ?

I'm relying on computer guided accuracy go tos.

So your recommendation is a fast refractor. I shall do some investigating.

I can't mod the dslr because it's not mine! I'm "borrowing" my brothers!

Joe

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[ronin]

The "basic" requirements for imaging DSO's are an equitorial mount with motors but preferably goto.

A short fast scope - something like the ED80 refractor of a 130PDS reflector.

Camera capable of long exposures - DSLR or CCD usually although ZWO make some CMOS devices.

Mount as a minimum needs to be around the EQ5 area, HEQ5 is better (more stable), iOptron ZEQ25 is another - they come in around the £800 mark

Scope, the ED80 is a refractor, doublet with ED glass, it is not fully apo and on bright things you may get CA showing through. The 130PDS is a reflector that has small modifications making it more suitable for imaging.

For goto you need power, add that in, for a DSLR you need a remote timer or intervalometer (same thing I think). You also need a few decent sized memory cards, the images are stored as RAW files not jpeg - they are BIGGER.

One thing is learn the camera, and find out what you need to do with it. It is not point and shoot, in general the camera will not allow you to do what you want which is to it take a 120 second exposure of a black patch of almost black something.

Do not worry about modifing a DSLR, just get some experience at first.

[kalasinman]

+1 What Ronin said. An inexpensive 50mm guider like Orion sells is good for FL up to 1 meter. Dual mount rigs are nice, but expensive.

With today's high sensitivity CMOS guiders, such as the QHY5L-II mono, or others with the same chip, on a wide FOV frac, an OAG is the cheapest, lightest, and most accurate guiding solution. The days of pain with OAGs , especially at wide FOV, are over if one uses the right guide cam.

If you get a Canon or Nikon DSLR, avail yourself of BackyardEOS or BackyardNikon. Best bang for the buck and easiest to integrate imaging solutions around. With them you can write subs to camera card, flash drive or direct to laptop HDD.

[joecoyle]

Thank you for the input - very useful.

An 80ED DS PRO is around £465, whereas the 130PDS is £159. Bit of a difference in price. Is there a reason for this if the 130PDS is better suited for imaging? The description of the 80ED says its apochromatic...

Regarding OAG, Celestron have said to me that the 6SE won't let enough light in for the prism to redirect to the OAG so while its do-able - it's not recommended.

I've just spent 30 mins talking to a very friendly telescope retailer and he recommends the following:

• 80ED 
• Celestron StarSense Auto Aligner
• f6.3 reducer for the SCT

To begin with, mount each telescope separately on the AVX depending on what I'm imaging, learn which exposures work with which scope and practise post processing.

Then, when the time comes that i'm ready to progress to guiding, buy a guider like NexGuide (purely because it doesn't need power) and use either the 6SE or 80ED as a guidescope for it (mount side-by-side).

Seems like a solid route and advice to me.

Thoughts?

Cheers

Joe

[richdigiulio]

Hi Everyone,

 

 I have been using a Celestron Nexstar 8 SE for just over two years. I have done some minor astro- photography with it via my Nikon 5200.

I would like to take better photos. The main problems with this set up are numerous.

 

1) Non EQ mount.

2)Single arm Go to

3) Nikon doesn't shoot in true RAW format as well as the IR filter.

 

 

I would like advice on  what I can do in order  to capture primarily deep space images along with some planetary imaging.

I don't mind buying a few more bits but would rather not change everything. 

 

Thanks   

[kalasinman]

Advice given re. OAG and 6SE is useless if you aren't going to use a 6SE the 80mm aperture will be fine. Be wary of friendly salesmen. Better to listen to a grumpy old guy who has no product to sell, yes? With few exceptions salesman advice can be discounted.

Celestron Star Sense...no, definitely not.

The 6SE..keep for observing. That's all. A single arm fork mount in Az-El is as near to useless for serious imaging as one could conceive of.

A 130 PDS would be a great start. Collimating a Newtonian is just simple after the 1st or even 2nd time. Mirrors are free from CA by nature. You will need a Coma Corrector after you get going in imaging. Many fracs need field flatteners so that's a trade off.

All in one guiders are a compromise most serious imagers avoid. A dedicated guide cam uses USB power and you'll need a laptop anyway.

[joecoyle]

Fair point - I'm happy to take advice from wherever I can get it

is the 130PDS suitable for an OAG then... 

My 6SE is on a Advanced VX mount, the fork arm has been retired to the garage - can't see much use for it.

I never really considered the NexGuide anyway - I'm more than happy to use a laptop with a guide cam - especially since I will be using Nebulosity / BackyardEOS / PHD guiding eventually to capture my light frames.

Is using the 130PDS with a mono CCD like Atik's 414EX a fair end-game? In a year or so when my skills are up to scratch? Or would i need to upgrade the scope again? Im looking to future proof as much as I can now ...

Cheers

Joe 

[kalasinman]

Hi Everyone,

 

 I have been using a Celestron Nexstar 8 SE for just over two years. I have done some minor astro- photography with it via my Nikon 5200.

I would like to take better photos. The main problems with this set up are numerous.

 

1) Non EQ mount.

2)Single arm Go to

3) Nikon doesn't shoot in true RAW format as well as the IR filter.

 

 

I would like advice on  what I can do in order  to capture primarily deep space images along with some planetary imaging.

I don't mind buying a few more bits but would rather not change everything. 

 

Thanks   

1. buy a better mount like an HEQ5 for so many reasons.

2.see #1

3 upgrade your firmware with Nikonhacker for true RAW, lossles compression, and generic batteries. BTW Canon cooks their "RAW" too.

For astro you'd be advised to:

sell the d3200 body, keep what lenses you have, buy a D5100 body (cheaper). A much better sensor. The D7000, or D5300 also better.

When it comes to the 8SE, I won't tell you to buy a decent imaging scope, even a cheap reflector (but I'll be thinking it     )

To get the big picture, sell the whole 8SE or keep it for observing. Use the money to buy an HEQ5 and an 80ED or a 150PDS

[kalasinman]

Fair point - I'm happy to take advice from wherever I can get it

is the 130PDS suitable for an OAG then... 

My 6SE is on a Advanced VX mount, the fork arm has been retired to the garage - can't see much use for it.

I never really considered the NexGuide anyway - I'm more than happy to use a laptop with a guide cam - especially since I will be using Nebulosity / BackyardEOS / PHD guiding eventually to capture my light frames.

Is using the 130PDS with a mono CCD like Atik's 414EX a fair end-game? In a year or so when my skills are up to scratch? Or would i need to upgrade the scope again? Im looking to future proof as much as I can now ...

Cheers

Joe 

AVX not my first choice, but good enough. The PDS versions will work with an OAG.

I've been doing a lot of thinking and discussing about starter CCD's and recently switched from some sort of Sony chipped one to the QHY9 with the big Kodak chip and filter wheel together.

Since you have the AVX I'd go for the 150PDS, I have  6" aperture and it's fine for imaging.

Future proof? Got 10,000+USD? hehehe. Seriously though, the above setup would take you far. Maybe bigger scope and mount together one day. You could easily get 5 years of fun out of this one.

[joecoyle]

My mistake for listening to a saleswoman in Blackpool this time then who told me the AVX was the best CGEM mount available in the UK! I've only had it 3 months!

I think CCDs are a long way off for me... just thinking about what to do to future proof. Definitely mono over OSC? Is it possible to use narrowband filters with a OSC CCD - never actually thought about that... but narrowband is eventually where I want to end up.

I'm not quite at the $10,000 stage, but could drop £1000 or 2, with my birthday and Christmas coming up -- treating myself of course!

J

[MarsG76]

Hi guys

New to astrophotography. I've taken a couple of great (IMO) images with my unmodded Eos 100D which seem clear for the absolute beginner.

I have a Celestron NexStar 6SE which is f/10 mounted on a Celestron Advanced VX mount.

If I'm seriously considering astrophotography, and buying mono CCDs and a guidescope and auto guiders... Do I first need to stop and ask myself the question ...

1) Do I need a better telescope?

Or:

2) Do I buy a mono CCD and guidescope and autoguider and experiment with my 6SE?

Has anyone fitted guidescopes to a 6SE? I don't know where to start attaching things.

If it's 1) buy a new scope: What would a good telescope be for beginning astrophotography ?

If it's 2) buy CCD and guider: I'm looking at an Atik 414EX and Orion starshoot autoguider. Thoughts??

Many thanks - I know there's like 5 questions in one

Joe

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with ronin that a stable mount is critial to goo deep sky astrophotography. I also think that having the best of both worlds is beneficial. I personally I find that imaging at F10 and F6.3 on my 8" SCT is great for galaxies and the close ups into nebulae, where as a 80mm f6.25 refractor allows me to make great wide field shots of large nebulae such as the Carina or Running Chicken Nebulae.... Also you can never have too many toys right.... it's the name of the game, the one who dies with the most toys wins?

Hi Everyone,

 

 I have been using a Celestron Nexstar 8 SE for just over two years. I have done some minor astro- photography with it via my Nikon 5200.

I would like to take better photos. The main problems with this set up are numerous.

 

1) Non EQ mount.

2)Single arm Go to

3) Nikon doesn't shoot in true RAW format as well as the IR filter.

 

 

I would like advice on  what I can do in order  to capture primarily deep space images along with some planetary imaging.

I don't mind buying a few more bits but would rather not change everything. 

 

Thanks   

Your NexStar 8SE is capable of some great images, as you already know, the single arm mount is really only good for observing and solar system imaging. I use a NexStar 8SE and a modded Canon 40D dslr and I put mu OTA on a CGEM mount. I used a adapter plate to attach the 8SE to the CGEM and it works great.

With autoguiding the mount is awesome with the 8SE, I get longer than 30 minute subs with perfectly round stars, (longest I tested it with was a hour and still guided tracking was spot on) and that was at F10!!! 

I think that all you need to do is put your 8SE onto a good EQ mount and get a f6.3 focal reducer. A modded DSLR is not crucial when just starting out, but when you decide you want more sensitivity to your red spectrum (and/or do some Narrowband imaging) , you can get a Canon 40D on ebay very cheap ad they are not hard to astro mod.. I did mine my self and is perfect. The 40D seems to be a good balance between features like live view, large pixel size on the sensor and low noise levels.

I know that there are people who say that a color DSLR is useless for narrowband imaging because of the bayer filter and noise etc etc but I disagree. NB is very much possible with a modded DSLR even through the bayer filter. I managed to get some great images in NB using the my 40D. Granted that the 40D is less sensitive because of the bayer even when modded compared to a cooled CCD of similar sensor size & resolution but not as bad as it is made out to be. I found Halpha to be very bright, OIII is with in even an unmodded spectral range and SII needs to be pushed a bit harder but still DSLR visible. Noise is not a problem either. I Image all of my subs in no higher then ISO400 (except SII, that I do ISO800) and do 30 minute subs for NB and upto 10 minute RGB subs (10 min limit due to the sky glow). and at ISO400 or lower even at 30 minute subs the noise is there but not that bad... you can take dark frames if you want but I dont even do that, just load the RAW files into RAW reader in PS and it does an amazing job at removing nothing but the noise from the subs as I convert to TIFF.

Mariusz

[kalasinman]

Yes mono, definitely. NB with OSC is a bit like washing the feet with socks on IMO .

I think you'll enjoy the AVX . With a 150PDS, an OAG, and a QHY5L-II mono, you'll get some fine results.

[joecoyle]

Perfect thank you!

[MarsG76]

My mistake for listening to a saleswoman in Blackpool this time then who told me the AVX was the best CGEM mount available in the UK! I've only had it 3 months!

I think CCDs are a long way off for me... just thinking about what to do to future proof. Definitely mono over OSC? Is it possible to use narrowband filters with a OSC CCD - never actually thought about that... but narrowband is eventually where I want to end up.

I'm not quite at the $10,000 stage, but could drop £1000 or 2, with my birthday and Christmas coming up -- treating myself of course!

J

 Yes definitely possible... I had great success using a color modded DSLR. ** Copy and paste from posting above **

 NB is very much possible with a modded DSLR even through the bayer filter. I managed to get some great images in NB using the my 40D. Granted that the 40D is less sensitive because of the bayer even when modded compared to a cooled CCD of similar sensor size & resolution but not as bad as it is made out to be. I found Halpha to be very bright, OIII is with in even an unmodded spectral range and SII needs to be pushed a bit harder but still DSLR visible. Noise is not a problem either. I Image all of my subs in no higher then ISO400 (except SII, that I do ISO800) and do 30 minute subs for NB and upto 10 minute RGB subs (10 min limit due to the sky glow). and at ISO400 or lower even at 30 minute subs the noise is there but not that bad... you can take dark frames if you want but I dont even do that, just load the RAW files into RAW reader in PS and it does an amazing job at removing nothing but the noise from the subs as I convert to TIFF.

[kalasinman]

I agree , I've seen great results with DSLR/NB. The but comes when compared to a mono CCD and NB. Getting 1/4 the data per pixel per

 unit of time, same in blue is going to slow down the session incredibly. Add in that with a mono CCD, all the color data can be binned, the gap widens to an ocean.

Poverty rules here so no CCD any time soon. My target is next year at the earliest. Then a QHY9 with filter wheel and 36mm Baader NB filter set. Total $2500USD.

[joecoyle]

Here's a question: Can you tell me what this is for? What is it used to image? Just found it... 

Is the 0.5x focal reducer the same as a f/6.3 reducer (also attached)? Eg does the 0.5x reducer reduce my f/10 scope to f/5 automatically?

Thanks

Joe

[iapa]

Advice given re. OAG and 6SE is useless if you aren't going to use a 6SE the 80mm aperture will be fine. Be wary of friendly salesmen. Better to listen to a grumpy old guy who has no product to sell, yes? With few exceptions salesman advice can be discounted.

Celestron Star Sense...no, definitely not.

The 6SE..keep for observing. That's all. A single arm fork mount in Az-El is as near to useless for serious imaging as one could conceive of.

A 130 PDS would be a great start. Collimating a Newtonian is just simple after the 1st or even 2nd time. Mirrors are free from CA by nature. You will need a Coma Corrector after you get going in imaging. Many fracs need field flatteners so that's a trade off.

All in one guiders are a compromise most serious imagers avoid. A dedicated guide cam uses USB power and you'll need a laptop anyway.

Why definitely no for the Star sense?

I have found it takes a serious cut from the time taken to align - on my AVX. It is picking up stars I'd never see myself. I can be aligned in 5 minutes - manually it takes m at least 40-45, partly as I can't bend to see through the eye piece.... old and decrepit

[iapa]

Yes mono, definitely. NB with OSC is a bit like washing the feet with socks on IMO .

I think you'll enjoy the AVX . With a 150PDS, an OAG, and a QHY5L-II mono, you'll get some fine results.

On the above, I should be OK with

200dps, AVX mound, a coma corrector, Canon 70D for imaging, with PHD, QHY6 CCD and an 80mm for guiding?

After that it is down to me getting drift, polar alignment and PEC all sorted?

That'll take me to next winter......

Who wants a short term hobby?

[MARS1960]

Why definitely no for the Star sense?

I have found it takes a serious cut from the time taken to align - on my AVX. It is picking up stars I'd never see myself. I can be aligned in 5 minutes - manually it takes m at least 40-45, partly as I can't bend to see through the eye piece.... old and decrepit

Thats exactly what i was going to ask, i got mine last week and oh boy, what a godsend, the time and effort it saves me was worth every penny.