200P - EQ5 or Dob ? - First Scope Choice

[BRUN]

Ive never owned a telescope, and ive been slowly saving up to get one. I have about £400 to spend and ive pretty much settled on a Skywatcher 200P, but i cant decide which mount to get.

I dont really care about the price difference, I just want to get the best one for me, i dont come across £400 easily so i need this to be the right purchase first time around, and not wish id bought the other one.

Im worried the EQ5 will take too much setting up every time i want to use it, though i was hoping i could keep it set up in my garage and bring it out when needed, so hopefully setup would be minimal ? Ive seen a video on YouTube and it seems to take ages ? Thats why i was looking at the dobsonian, everyone says its really easy and quick to get going, but im worried im going to have to 'chase' things around to keep viewing them.

How quickly do objects move through the field of view, thats what worries me about getting the dobsonian mount version that it will be harder to track things

I am open to other suggestions on choice of scope aswell, and any suggestions anyone wants to make please do, im new to all this

[kev100]

Hiya,

You need to decide whether you want to get involved with astrophotography. If yes, then you'll need the EQ mount, and yes, setup time is an issue (tho not a major one). If you're not into photography just yet get the dob. I've got the 250PX, and it's so easy to use. Setup time is minimal, and tracking objects across the sky is easy (you just have to get used to nudging the scope slightly (not an issue).

Kev

[kev100]

Hi again,

Of course, if you're not into astrophotography, you would be able to spend more of your budget on the optics, rather than the mount. You would even have enough for a larger dob; a 10 inch, for example.  Telescope house is doing a deal on 10 inch Revelation dobs including eyepieces and a barlow for 399!

Kev

[BRUN]

thanks for the reply, if tracking things is easy i might get the dob, how much setting up is involved in using an EQ mount, i dont have a lot of spare time really id like to be able to get up and running as quickly as possible

whats actually involved with photography, its not something im immediately interested in to be honest, its something ive thought of, but i think ill be more of a visual observer, photography seems like it would take up too much time, that i dont have

on the other hand though i may visit darker areas every so often and the size of the dob mount looks huge, ive only got a Skoda Fabia, is the mount likely to fit in the boot ?

[bish]

The dob is far easier and quicker to set up. It's also easier to use. I do miss not tracking at high powers a little, but  not much really. As already said, if you want to move into photography then you need to use a driven EQ mount.  My 250px sees more sky than my 200p EQ5 did, but I still had many good hours out with the EQ5. I'm a bit on the fence as I have enjoyed both, but the dob has had more use.

[BRUN]

if i do go for the dobsonian i might go to the 250 instead, what exactly is the 'flextube' version

[kev100]

Setting up an EQ mount isn't too time consuming. The optical tube needs to be balanced correctly, and then polar aligned (have a look on youtube, there's lots of tutorials on the subject). As for the truss tube dob, well, again, if you look on Telescope House or FLO's websites you'll soon see the difference between them and standard dobs. The truss tube dob will need to be collimated each and every time you set up, and so might not be the best for a beginner. I'd go for the standard dob to start with.

Kev

[BRUN]

the truss tube is out the question then, hmmmmmmmm choices choices

how much do i usually need to spend on eye pieces etc when i first get a scope, what extras are actually needed to get up and running properly

[kev100]

I wouldn't worry about spending anything over and above the scope at first. Just use the eyepieces that come with the scope, you'll soon discover their limitations and get a feel for what you'd like to get next - i.e. higher power for planetary viewing, low-power wide angle for taking in larger objects, etc). The list of things you might get once you get going will probably include (in no particular order):

red light torch

comfortable observing stool

star atlas/guide book (tho I'd start with some of the apps for smartphones

a pair of binoculars (even a cheap pair will help you find your way around the sky)

hip flask 

some foam camping mat to make a dew shield

perhaps an OIII or UHC filter

observation diary/note pad

But really, just use the scope as it comes to begin with. You'll soon come up with a list of things to get next ...

Kev

[BRUN]

hmmm it sounds like a 250px might be on the cards then

[kev100]

Or the Revelation one from Telescope House ...

[BRUN]

yup very true, though ive seen a lot of places sell SkyWatcher and ive seen them mentioned a lot, id never heard of Revelation before you mentioned them, are they a highly regarded brand, how would they compare to SW on quality

[kev100]

Hiya. Yes, they're highly regarded. There's a post on here comparing the two. As far as I'm aware they're made in the same factory, the optics are the same, build quality is the same (though the post I linked says the Revelation is F5, so will be more forgiving on eyepieces). I think the Revelation dob base uses roller bearings rather than plastic, and so are supposed to be easier to move/adjust, etc.

I posted this post a while back on the same subject. You might find it useful.

Kev

[SpoonyPizzas]

Hi Brun and welcome,

I'm fairly new too - 9 months and I'll try and answer your questions.

I have a 250px SW Dob (10") and the base fits in my Renault Clio Extreme and the tube lies nicely across the back seats.  I tried to fit the base in a Merc A180 and it didn't fit :-( as it's too sleek (no company car for me then!).  I'm sure there are some measurements online that you'll be able to find to see how it'll fit.

Regarding chasing objects around the sky - it depends what you're viewing really... take for example a 5mm eyepiece and you're viewing Jupiter with a 10" Dob... from corner to corner when viewing you'll probably have about 10 seconds if you don't follow it by nudging your telescope.  I find it very easy to nudge and track objects and I've not even been doing it that long.  However, if you're viewing Jupiter through 14mm it'll be in the eyepiece for longer but it'll be smaller :-)

I love my Dobsonian, I've learnt a lot about the night sky already. A book that has certainly helped and that I'd recommend picking up is Turn Left at Orion.  A good easy read with lots of useful information.  I've seen Jupiter in pictures.... but seeing it through my eyepieces just blew me away. :-)

Just remember without astrophotography, you won't see the spectacular colours of nebulae/nebula you see in some of the pictures on the web or posted by members of the forum here through an eyepiece.  I'm sure there is a sticky thread on the forum about this :-)

When buying - don't forget to check AstroBuy&Sell.... certainly get a good deal on there sometimes!

Just a reminder with a Dob... you'll need to collimate it... and whilst the instructions look confusing... it's really not that difficult.  Just make sure you have a Premium Cheshire Collimator - can be found on First Light Optics.

If you do get a Dob... I'd highly recommend a Telrad finder with a dew shield, this makes finding things so much easier!  (without a dew shield, I found it to be a nightmare lol - 'fogging' up - although some people hand-make their dew shields :-)) - I wouldn't worry about having the mirror with a dew shield - barely use it.

and lastly... a nice addition is the right angled finderscope - not a necessity! :-) but will save your back! :-) (you'll see what I mean when you do your first couple of viewing sessions).

A chair is a nice addition but I would perhaps go against what people say.... I bought one and find most of the time I'm standing to view anyway :-)

Just remember - these recommendations above are for a 10" Dob... :-)

Good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever you decide.

[Owmuchonomy]

Setting up an EQ mount isn't too time consuming. The optical tube needs to be balanced correctly, and then polar aligned (have a look on youtube, there's lots of tutorials on the subject). As for the truss tube dob, well, again, if you look on Telescope House or FLO's websites you'll soon see the difference between them and standard dobs. The truss tube dob will need to be collimated each and every time you set up, and so might not be the best for a beginner. I'd go for the standard dob to start with.

Kev

I haven't had this experience. With my 300P Flextube Dob I have only had to collimate it twice in 9 months of use. It holds collimation extremely well. The design also makes it (and other flex tubes) easier to transport to dark sites.

[kev100]

Hi Owmuchonomy, That's interesting, and I'm happy to stand corrected. I'd heard (and I can't remember where), that collimation was an issue with flextubes. You learn something new everyday!

[SpoonyPizzas]

Wish I could edit posts.... 

I forgot to mention my Dob is solid tube (not flex) and I've had it for 13 months (not 9 months as previously stated... time flies!) and has only been collimated (prior to first use) which is quite remarkable I think considering all those bumpy roads I've taken it across (est. 600 miles)!

[BRUN]

this forum is really good, loads of replies and information in such a short space of time

thanks a lot everyone, i think im now leaning towards a dob, probably 10" now

[BRUN]

I haven't had this experience. With my 300P Flextube Dob I have only had to collimate it twice in 9 months of use. It holds collimation extremely well. The design also makes it (and other flex tubes) easier to transport to dark sites.

having only recently seen this type of scope, how exactly does it work, does the front end slide in and out for easier transportation ?

how easy is it to set up when moving it around ? id be worried i wouldnt have it all aligned properly

[John]

Hiya. Yes, they're highly regarded. There's a post on here comparing the two. As far as I'm aware they're made in the same factory, the optics are the same, build quality is the same (though the post I linked says the Revelation is F5, so will be more forgiving on eyepieces). I think the Revelation dob base uses roller bearings rather than plastic, and so are supposed to be easier to move/adjust, etc.

I posted this post a while back on the same subject. You might find it useful.

Kev

Revelation are made by GSO. Skywatcher are made by Synta. Different manufacturers. Optical quality about the same. Both popular on this forum.

I check the collimation each time I use my 12" dob. It never needs more than minor adjustment but it's something that the newtonian scope owner should know how to check and adjust in the same way that a guitar player tunes his / her instrument before playing it.

Setup time for my 12" dob is about 1 minute. I then usually give it 20-30 minutes to cool down (it's kept in the house) although low power views can be had almost immediately.

Tracking through nudging is something that is quickly learned. The dobsonian mount is remarkably stable at high magnification despite it's simplicity.

[BRUN]

I like the idea of the flex tube because it will be easier to transport, but I'm worried I'll have to fiddle with it loads to get it aligned properly

Am I worrying over nothing ?

[kev100]

Hiya,

Because it's a newtonian, you're going to have to get used to collimating the scope from time to time anyway. It might seem tricky to begin with, but once you get your head round the procedure, it's really straightforward. Truss tube dobs are easier to transport, and are very popular, and so it's unlikely there's much to put people off. Telescope House and First Light Optics would be happy to discuss your concerns with you, and I'm sure will be able to put your mind at ease. 

Alternatively, why not visit your local telescope retailer and/or a local astronomy club, I'm pretty sure there's a couple in your area.

Cheers,

Kev

[ollypenrice]

Be careful over astrophotography. It requires not just an equatorial mount but a good equatorial mount and if you got into it then you would very soon outgrow the basic EQ5, especically with an 8 inch Dob on board.

I'm not a fan of German equatorials for visual use and particularly not with Newtonians. The eyepiece can end up in odd places meaning you have to rotate the tube.

There are also motorized tracking dobs which are great for visual but they don't track in a manner which suits photography. For me tracking is a minor negative at high powers with a Dob but at low powers it's a non issue.

Olly

[BRUN]

yea i think astro photography is going to require too much time that i dont have, another reason im leaning towards a dobsonian now

guess i best have a read about collimating, and more about the flextube setup see if they are ok

[BRUN]

ive spoke to FLO, who have been very helpful, and they said the flextubes shouldnt need collimating anymore than a normal one, so im not as worried about that now