looking for the most simple refractor telescope

[jestar]

Hi Dweller25 

I really like the look of the Skywatcher Evostar that your link sent me to.

I've been looking at what people are selling second hand also but quite often the asking price is as much, or sometimes more than new. There is an Orion 102 ED premium refractor OTA (not sure what all that means) out there for £550, is this a good price for this telescope ? Apparently it is in mint condition.

[John]

As a guide, used equipment usually sells for around 60%-70% of the new price, assuming it's in very good condition.

OTA means Optical Tube Assembly and means that it's the scope and no mount. You would need to buy a suitable mount separately.

The Orion 102mm ED costs around £800 new I think. A TAL 100, which is not an ED but a good achromat refractor showing modest but not excessive chromatic aberration, costs around £250 new I believe. Both these prices are for the optical tube only.

[ollypenrice]

OTA means Optical Tube Assembly. This usually means just the scope with no tube rings, star diagonal for comfortable viewing, eyepieces, finderscope or mount.

If you put this on a tracking German equatorial you are going to be nicely over budget! (We all like it when this happens to someone else since it always happens to us!)

There are also good tracking altazimuth mounts which in my view are far better for visual observing because setup is faster and the eyepiece remains in a logical position. iOptron make a range of these.

One final thought on a long refractor, though. The height of the eyeiece does vary a great deal as you slew around the sky. The short Maksutov varies less. This might be an issue with adults and children sharing.

Olly

Overlapped with John, there. Sorry.

[toxic]

Or....

Consider this OTA.....

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/maksutov/skywatcher-skymax-127-ota.html

And this mount.......

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq3-pro-synscan-goto.html

is'nt the dovetail bar on upside down on the 127 mac in the picture or is it my old eyes  - but good scope to start with its the one that got me hooked when i looked through it and found saturn for the first time wow.

[happy-kat]

In the spirit of

Complicated technologies like go to computers worry me a little, I really am looking for something as simple as possible.

I don't think an equatorial mount fits in.

It was mentioned earlier a altazimuth mount, which can have a goto package with it, would be easier to get out side and use and perhaps cheaper.

[jestar]

Of course I'm going to go over budget, budgets were made to be broken ! or is that rules? The secret is squeezing  the greatest value out of the least excess.

What I don't want to do is stick rigidly to a budge now and regret it later

Vincent is going to be over the moon whatever I buy. He is a three year old boy whose obsession with all things stellar deserves tp be encouraged. I can't wait to see his reaction when he finds out how real all those  amaizing planets are. I think when he sees them for the first time it should be the right way up.

The difference in our hight  wont matter, we're about the same size when I kneel down.

Paul said it all when he described plonking his scope on the tripod and looking at the skies.

[szymon]

Indeed, a long refractor can be a pain with children.  I'm using a 900mm long 80mm (f/11) refractor, and the eyepiece being all over the place is irritating.  A shorter scope would certainly make it easier to show the kids!

[jestar]

Dweller25, hi

I've looked at a good many scopes now and keep coming back to the one you suggested. Indeed, many people  have pointed me towards sky watcher scopes.

I just wandered what the advantages of this scope were over the black diamond ED100 which appears to the novice to be very similar yet less expensive . 

[dweller25]

Dweller25, hi

I've looked at a good many scopes now and keep coming back to the one you suggested. Indeed, many people  have pointed me towards sky watcher scopes.

I just wandered what the advantages of this scope were over the black diamond ED100 which appears to the novice to be very similar yet less expensive . 

Hello JetStar,

The Black diamond is the forerunner of 1the 100ED DS Pro - they are essentially the same.

If you definitely want a new 4" refractor then nothing will beat this in terms of performance/cost.

[jestar]

Hi Happy kat,

Thank you so much for the link to what you will see, it was trully helpfull.

Then one thing i was really worried about was how good the images from a refractor would be.

I realized they would be small, this doesn't worry me, Indeed, an image of jupiter the size of a small saucer could possibley traumatize a child.

I imagine it will take quite a bit of practice to make everything clear, but I have a couple of months before it gets dark before vincents bed time

Cheers.

teresa j

[ollypenrice]

Beware of 'small and large' in discussing images from different scopes. The ED100 refractor will usually allow you to view the moon and planets at the same maximum magnification as anything else. These are bright objects and the ED100 will easily allow 200x. Only rarely does the atmospheric turbulence ( the 'seeing' ) allow more than that. I was recently observing Jupiter in a 6 million Euro professional grade giant telescope. We didn't magnify it more than we do at home. What was chiefly impressive was that this was in broad daylight on a bright sunny day...)

The smaller apertures are less impressive than the large on the small faint targets like galaxies and nebulae. For these aperture does matter a great deal.

Olly

[szymon]

Broad daylight on a sunny day?  Just how big was this giant telescope?  Are you sure it wasn't actually in space? :-)

[dweller25]

Jetstar - check this mount out......

http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=86423

[jestar]

Checked it out dweller25 and not being one to put the cart before the horse I have emailed my interest to the seller, so now I need to know if I want it !

As it is you who have drawn my attention  to it i'm assuming it is compatible with the equinox ed 100 (don't tell anyone but that's the one I want).

At that price I don't expect it to be go to, are conversions possible ?

I've pretty much used up my budget and an inexpensive mount would be a god send for now so I think I might go for it anyway.

[jestar]

Hi dweller25, Just been told that the polar scope part is missing, should I be worried?

[John]

As you are planning ahead it would be worth checking to see what the visibility of the planets is during the Autumn and Winter. They are not always visible and can be awkwardly placed for a few months at a time. Fortunately the Moon is on view much more frequently and I'm sure Vincent will be captivated by that through any scope.

[rwilkey]

Hi dweller25, Just been told that the polar scope part is missing, should I be worried?

A polar scope is not usually needed for visual work, usually for astrophotography.  You only need to be roughly polar aligned for visual (ie. the mount pointing to Polaris by eye judgement).

[jestar]

Something to bare in mind John, thanks . The moon is pretty cool though.  I'm sure the sky has something to offer most of the year round (probably clouds more often than not). 

Thanks Robin, a bit of a bargin then as long as nothing else is missing ?

[John]

Why are you thinking of an EQ mount by the way ?. Alt-azimuth is simpler to setup and use, lighter overall (no counterweights), and keeps the eyepiece and finder scope in an accessible position.

The old Vixen GP mounts are great but it can be difficult to find drives to retro-fit to them if that is your plan. The Vixen GOTO system is even harder to locate and pretty expensive.

There are things to look at all the time of course but a 4" scope is not going to blow anyones mind on 90% of deep sky objects really as has been mentioned before.

[John]

Indeed, a long refractor can be a pain with children.  I'm using a 900mm long 80mm (f/11) refractor, and the eyepiece being all over the place is irritating.  A shorter scope would certainly make it easier to show the kids!

Good point made here - I've experience of showing young observers (6-10 yrs) the sky and it's not easy by any means. Even closing one eye and peering into an eyepiece poses a challenge and when the eyepiece is at the end of a long tube that will shake if it's touched things can get quite frustrating !

[John]

Sorry to go on by the way - I'm just sharing these thoughts to try and help you get a solution that does a great job for you and Vincent

[dweller25]

Checked it out dweller25 and not being one to put the cart before the horse I have emailed my interest to the seller, so now I need to know if I want it !

As it is you who have drawn my attention  to it i'm assuming it is compatible with the equinox ed 100 (don't tell anyone but that's the one I want).

At that price I don't expect it to be go to, are conversions possible ?

I've pretty much used up my budget and an inexpensive mount would be a god send for now so I think I might go for it anyway.

Hello Jetstar,

This mount is fitted with manual slow motion controls and can be fitted with a motorised tracking system from Vixen (quite expensive) but I think GOTO would not be possible.

If you want GOTO there are better options than this but at £100 it's a very good starter for 10.

It is compatible witht the Equinox 100 - which is a really nice scope

The missing Polar scope is not a major issue for visual only use (ie non astrophotography)

[dweller25]

Jetstar  - I have had a re-think.

The manually controlled Vixen GP on astrobuysell is not ideal for the Equinox 100, You will have a very long reach from the eyepiece to manually track the object you are looking at.

The Equinox 100ED is a very good scope, so If you are set on buying a refractor and removing all budget constraints then the mount I would suggest is this one (because it tracks) .....

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-eq5-pro-synscan-goto.html

[happy-kat]

Could consider this and see if the interest is there and build up on it and as your grandchild matures you could get another one for you and Vincent can use his own scope on his own that you had both being using. Great hands on review here.

[jestar]

Thanks John for your concern, the truth is I don't know which mount I want. Not really true, I would like the skywatcher EQ5 pro but at £499 I really feel I should at least try to find a cheaper alternative, especially  if  I'm going to ignore a great deal of good adivice and   blow most of my budget on the a telescope which i'm told is going to be very disappointing.

Any Ideas?