Televue eyepieces for Skyliner 200p?

[greglloyd]

I've decided I'd like to move up to premium eyepieces for my 200p (f6 / 1200mm). I'm currently using two Celestron X-Cel LX eyepieces (25mm and 7mm) and I'm thinking about changing to Televue to get the sharpest, most contrasty images.

The first eyepiece I'm thinking of purchasing is the Televue Delos 14mm (to give a nice 85x for medium power DSO viewing). This should suffice over the summer for star clusters and planetaries like the Dumbell as the main planets are heading out of view and it will realistically be some point in July before I can do any serious observing due to sky brightness right now. I will then look to add something like the Delos 6mm to give 200x for planets and close DSO views.

Anyone have experience with using Delos eyepieces with a Skyliner 200p? I've read through various postings and checked website reviews, etc. They seem to be amazing eyepieces but just wondering if they are too good an eyepiece for the 200p or just what I am looking for (basically the best I can get for my scope). Something to also mention is that I may eventually get a 14" Skywatcher Dob (within next two years).

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

The Delos would be fine in your F/6 dob. My 8mm is great in the little F/6 frac, so I wouldn't worry. Combining quality EPs with decent but not top of the line scopes works fine. Do not forget, the scope has just two optical surfaces to get right, and any parabola matches a flat (nobody cares whether a mirror has 1210mm focal length, or 1190mm). Besides, the optics only need to be corrected over a very small range of angles (the maximum true field of view of the scope). Thus, it is very cheap to get a pretty decent Newtonian telescope right. By contrast, even a simple EP has 8 or more optical surfaces which must be matched carefully to each other in order to work. Furthermore, the beams emerging from the eye lens must be corrected over a much wider range of angles (the maximum apparent field of view). That is much harder to get right. More than half the optical system is in the EP, in a manner of speaking.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Not to go into long debate:

Delos are superb eye pieces and will serve well on your current scope and on your future upgrade and are miles better eye piece as your humble Celestron X-cels.

End.

[Moonshane]

I have a boxful of TV eyepieces and am 'committed' to their brand, really liking pretty much everything I have bought. Personally, I will always buy Televue unless there's no option for the eyepiece I want. 

I agree your choice is a good one and logic is good but do please manage your expectations as to what sort of improvement you will get moving from good to premium eyepieces. Other than ergonomics (field size, eye relief etc) the differences will be subtle. In my opinion it's worth it but do not expect 'chalk and cheese' differences.

[greglloyd]

Hi,

Yes, I've been observing on and off for the past 25 years and used various scopes from 6" to 16". I appreciate differences in view can subtle overall and my observing skills play a large role in what I can see. Last week for example, I could see lots of details in DSO's when using a 16" scope in Gran Canaria - yet the other gets (completely novices) could not really see what I was talking about! I'm mainly looking for increased sharpness across the field of view and good eye relief for glasses as I have astigmatism. I'm also looking for eyepieces that give maximum light transmission for a given aperture and will serve me as long term good investment.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I also have astigmatism, so always select long eye relief EPs. TV Delos (or Radians)  and Pentax XWs are outstanding in this, and every other respect.

[John]

Everything I hear about the Delos range is very positive. When I had a 200P dob I used Tele Vue Nagler eyepieces from 31mm down to 3.5mm and the scope seemed to benefit from them just as all scopes do. I think premium eyepieces benefit any scope

My current set is a mix of Tele Vue Naglers, Ethos, Radians and Pentax XW's. All excellent in my view 

[greglloyd]

Looks like I'll be selling my Celestron X-Cel LX's then! 

Delos, here I come! 

[russ.will]

It might be better to buy a Delos that compliments your existing EPs, to give you a bit more of a range to play with.

A 12mm Delos would give you a very handy 100x magnification (for globs etc) that would Barlow to 6mm for those 200x moments when seeing allows.

Russell

[greglloyd]

Well, I got the TeleVue Delos eyepiece this week. I decided to stick to buying the 14mm (rather than a shorter focal length that was suggested) as I had other plans in play - I also bought a second hand Skywatcher 300p on an Orion Optics UK dobsonian mount. 

First light with the eyepiece was on Friday night (the day I bought the scope no less - how often do you get a clear sky on the day you get a new scope LOL?)

First impressions of this eyepiece are that it is superb! Unfortunately June evenings are just not the best to give it a real good test drive due to the sky remaining bright well after midnight here unfortunately!

I rigged up both of the scopes since I still have the 8" dob at the moment so that I could compare images. I was also test driving the 300p after all!

I first of all did some star tests and trained both scopes at bright stars such as Vega and Arcturus. In both scopes the stars looked pin sharp with very clean diffraction spikes. Every star in the field right out to the edge of the FOV was pin sharp. Even in the f4.9 12". Bright stars like Vega looked awesome in the 300p. Very bright and pin sharp with bright and perfect diffraction spikes (I personally love seeing the spikes as it gives that astro photo look!).

I then decided to train both scopes on Saturn as the first target. The eyepiece delivered some of the sharpest views I've seen of this planet. It's always a tricky target from my back garden as it's relatively low to the south and I have houses in the way. However, the planet looked crisp sharp at 86x in the 8" with the cassini division showing well at times along with the equatorial cloud band. Contrast was excellent and the FOV meant I could watch for ages without having to pan the scope.

In the 12" at 106x Saturn looked awesome. Very sharp view with high contrast cassini division, very clear equatorial cloud band and many moons visible. I was very pleased with the view. It was tack sharp! I was unable to try higher powers with the 12" as I sold a few eyepieces to get my first Delos. I only have the one eyepiece right now but will be adding some more Delos eyepieces to give some other powers very soon.

Now it was time for the DSO's...

In the 8" M13 looked excellent at 86x. The cluster was bright despite not ideal conditions (a slight haze at times high up and sky not totally dark). Cluster was partially resolved with direct vision and well resolved (though not to core) with adverted vision. FOV was excellent. All stars across the view were pin sharp.

In the 12" M13 looked awesome. Very bright and stars well resolved right across the core at 107x. All stars in the FOV were pin sharp. I was impressed and relieved that the view was so crisp in the faster scope! 

Next object was the Ring Nebula. The 8" showed the neb at approx 86x with great contrast and sharp stars across the field. This eyepiece is awesome at giving a nice flat and pin sharp view. In the 12" the view was again, pin sharp and flat at 106x - but the power of the bigger scope bringing more stars into view, showing the central area of the ring filled with greyish colour rather than clear, and giving great detail. I was extremely please both with the eyepiece and scope!

I carried out some tests on M10 and M12 in Ophiucius. The 8" showed these globs well with partial resolution using adverted vision and pin sharp high contrast view. The 12" did a great job at resolving these clusters! Both could be viewed with direct vision with lots of resolution.

I finished up with M15 in Pegasus at around 2am. The 8" should this as a bright condensed glob with a nebulous patch with partial resolution around the edges at 86x. The field of view was excellent and pin sharp. In the 12" the glob showed as very bright and dense with very good resolution for 107x. Many stars were resolved. 

In summary, this eyepiece is awesome! Everything is tack sharp and of the highest quality. I cannot wait to get a few other powers to use with the 12" :-) 

If you are thinking about buying one of these eyepieces - just do it!

Finally on a different topic, the Orion Optics Dob Mount that came with the scope I bought is excellent! It's the all metal base and is extremely smooth to pan around. Very please with that and the mount supplied suits a 14" scope as well. They are very expensive mounts to buy seperately so quite pleased to have acquired one with this scope.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

good to hear Delos worked out for you.It is a superb eye piece and will serve and show you beautiful images very well.

Clear skies.

[rwilkey]

Hi Greg, getting away from your eyepiece question, one of which I have no experience in.  I would not have thought a telescope upgrade from a 12" to a 14" would give you much benefit in real terms.  To appreciate any difference you need to go 16" or higher (an 'Obsession' would be nice haha).  Just my 2p's worth.  Best wishes for the future!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Great first light and first light report. Glad you got to use the scope immediately (I had that will all three scopes I currently use: the C8, the APM80, and the LS35).

[greglloyd]

Hi Greg, getting away from your eyepiece question, one of which I have no experience in. I would not have thought a telescope upgrade from a 12" to a 14" would give you much benefit in real terms. To appreciate any difference you need to go 16" or higher (an 'Obsession' would be nice haha). Just my 2p's worth. Best wishes for the future!

Hi,

I went from 8" to 12".

The 12" / 14" was just the two different options I was considering.

[rwilkey]

OK Greg, no problems.  Good luck with your future choices, there is so much good stuff out there isn't there!

[greglloyd]

Certainly is! Clear skies to you :-)

[Reeny]

Hi,

I went from 8" to 12".

The 12" / 14" was just the two different options I was considering.

Hi Greg - is the 8-12 inch jump a significant advantage for observing.

The next step for me would be a 12-inch ES foldaway truss dob to use as a more powerful / more portable scope (keeping the 8-inch set up at home as a grab and go for the back garden)

I'm nowhere near ready to commit yet.

But wondered if a 200p Skywatcher Dob and a 300mm ES truss dob would be too much of the same.

My calculations came out at 2.25x extra surface area on the mirror = 2.25x more light.

For £680 to £750 new they are a bargain.

Cheers

[greglloyd]

Hi Reeney,

I've found it to be a big upgrade. For example, I've found that any globs I've pointed the scope to are resolved right across the core and are bright and sharp. Whereas with the 8" scope tested on the same night for comparison, I found the same globs partially resolved, much dimmer, and requiring averted vision. With the 12" it was direct vision! This is on a relatively bright June sky too (stays bright here in June until around 2am).

The M13 image comparison on the Obsession Telescopes website gives exactly the difference I am seeing between the 8" and 12" :-

http://www.obsessiontelescopes.com/m13/index.php

Saturn looked the most detailed and sharp I've ever seen it at only 107x in the new Delos 14mm eyepiece. I'm sure the eyepiece is coming into play here, but even when I put the good eyepiece in the 8 inch it was far more impressive in the 12 inch. Razor sharp views and surprisingly steady. Even at 107x I could see crisp Cassini division, sharp shadows from rings on planet, and equatorial cloud belt very clear. Lots of moons visible around Saturn too.

I also compared the ring nebula and there was more detail in the 12", brighter image, and more stars in the field. Dumbbell Neb looked large, bright, and detailed at 107x. The best view I've seen of it despite the skies still being a tone of blue when I viewed two nights ago at midnight.

So far I've been totally delighted with the difference and the 8" has stayed well put in the shed! I was in Gran Canaria two weeks ago and went on a short Astro tour there run by AstroGC and they were using a 16" dob. The view of M13 through the 12" is not a million miles away from what I saw in the 16". Very similar indeed. When I came back from that night I decided I wanted to get myself a big scope. I thought about what size I wanted to go to and wondered if the 12" would be enough. I'm very glad to have got it now because views are definitely comparable and the size and weight are at the limit of what I would want to deal with. 

[greglloyd]

I guess another way of putting it would be that to see a similar gain going up from 12" would require a scope of 18". So it's a noticeable upgrade for sure!

[Reeny]

Thanks Greg,

Richard at the Northumberland astro club allowed us to look through his 10" dob at a local event.

I knew I wanted a 10 or 8-inch, and we finally went for the 8"

Partly because of the price,

Partly because the 8" is easier to lift into the back garden by one person,

and partly because the base will fit through the motohome door if we need to travel to dark skys.

The 200p is a good match for our usage.

However - the 12inch ES would tick many more boxes.

It will be a more difficult and longer job to set it up - but it would be a truely portable scope.

I'm going to check down the back of the settee to find that extra £700.

PS - I have the Maxvision 24mm + 16mm / ES 82^o 11mm / and the 6mm Delos

The Maxvisons are good - about 90-95% perfect.

The ES is excellent - about 95% perfect, with the additional 82-degrees to play with.

But the 6mm Delos is superb - 99% perfect

By perfect I mean you drop it in, focus, and the image comes to you - no fiddling about or adjusting your eye position to optimise the view.