Change of Choice on First Scope

[DanLXIX]

I was going to get the Skywatcher 130M, however I have held off because of concerns about using a DSLR on it. I could well now have the opportunity to spend more money than I first thought, so I am now thinking about the Skywatcher 150PDS, however that leaves me with a few questions:

1. Is this a good choice as a starter for a keen photographer? I suspect I will do 50/50 viewing and photography, so I'm thinking I need to be able to satisfy both things as well as possible without spending a fortune.

2. Which mount? I've seen it bundled with the EQ3-2, is that okay or on the limit for weight with a DSLR? I wouldn't mind the GOTO on this as well if it's worth having.

3. Which eyepieces? Again, as a newbie to this I have no idea what I need here. Is the OVL eyepiece offer worth considering (should it still be available when I buy)?

This purchase is not confirmed yet, but I'm trying to get my options sorted now so I know what to do when and if the time comes, and any help on picking would be most welcome.

[Owmuchonomy]

What are you most keen to photograph?  The answer will drive the thread I suspect. I use a DSLR now because it is used for astro and non-astro.

[RikM]

When I started, I wanted a budget scope for 50:50 visual and deep sky imaging with a DSLR and I purchased exactly that. A 150P on an EQ3-2 with the dual axis motor drives. It is a compromise all round but was exactly the right choice for me. Any EQ mount can be a pain for visual use, but not too bad with a 6" scope. The EQ3-2 is a bit small for top-flight astrophotography but with a good polar alignment and if you make sure all the bolts are correctly tightened, it will do to get your started at least. It was hugely satisfying and I made it through about 2 years before upgrading the mount. I still use the 150P.

It is entry level equipment so if you match your expectations to that you will be okay. There will be loads of recommendations to get a 200P Skyliner Dobsonian for visual use and an HEQ5 for imaging using your camera and lenses and they are perfectly valid suggestions, they are better but do cost a lot more.

[Tinker1947]

For astro photography you will need a GoTo as finding objects to image could well take all night to get them in the right place a accurate GoTo will mean sync on a nearby star, focus, the slew to the object, the mount is the important bit a HEQ5 would be top of the list for a 6" scope.......

[RikM]

I am not sure I agree 100%. The EQ3 isn't stable enough to allow the long exposures needed for imaging extremely faint objects. If you are limited to the brighter objects, these are easy to find manually. Rather than a GoTo EQ3, the extra couple of hundred pounds would be better put towards a more suitable mount like the HEQ5.

[sologuitarist61]

I guess it comes down to what you can afford. The rule of thumb is always the same, get the best you can for the amount of money that you have available. If money is tight then do all your learning with the EQ3-2 and progress to something bigger (?HEQ5) later when funds allow. Good luck with your purchase!

[DanLXIX]

What are you most keen to photograph?  The answer will drive the thread I suspect. I use a DSLR now because it is used for astro and non-astro.

I'd like to photograph as much as I possibly can, so I imagine I'll start with the obvious ones like Andromeda and the Orion Nebula, as well as some wide field stuff, probably taken with the DSLR piggybacked.

I'm open to much suggestion on this

[Scott]

In your opening post you state you are a keen photographer. I'm curious as to which lenses you have with your dslr? I only ask because with the eq2-3 you might find mounting your camera/lens will get you some pretty good results. I've seen some absolute blinders taken with only an 18mm lens. using camera/lens will take some of the strain of the tracking required. with a short fl you can get away with longer subs. As previously mentioned,get what you feel comfortable spending on and don't get hung up on producing huble quality images off the bat. 

Don't let your quest for the perfect image get in the way of your enjoyment.

Scott

[DanLXIX]

I guess it comes down to what you can afford. The rule of thumb is always the same, get the best you can for the amount of money that you have available. If money is tight then do all your learning with the EQ3-2 and progress to something bigger (?HEQ5) later when funds allow. Good luck with your purchase!

I'd looked at the EQ5, but one factor in this would be the eyepieces - no point in getting the EQ5 if I'm not left with enough to get the eyepieces I need is there?

I have no budget as yet, so I need to work out if that OTA is most suitable what else is essential (ie eyepieces, T-mounts, etc), then see if I can go for the EQ5, or have to make do with the EQ3-2.

Does that make sense?

[DanLXIX]

In your opening post you state you are a keen photographer. I'm curious as to which lenses you have with your dslr? I only ask because with the eq2-3 you might find mounting your camera/lens will get you some pretty good results. I've seen some absolute blinders taken with only an 18mm lens. using camera/lens will take some of the strain of the tracking required. with a short fl you can get away with longer subs. As previously mentioned,get what you feel comfortable spending on and don't get hung up on producing huble quality images off the bat. 

Don't let your quest for the perfect image get in the way of your enjoyment.

Scott

At the moment I have 18-55mm and 55-200mm Nikkor, and a 120-400mm Sigma.

I know I'm not going to get amazing shots, but I want to push myself to get the best I can with the kit I've got. I've only done a couple of Lunar shots so far (in the beginners forum) so I have a long way to go.

[sologuitarist61]

I'd looked at the EQ5, but one factor in this would be the eyepieces - no point in getting the EQ5 if I'm not left with enough to get the eyepieces I need is there?

I have no budget as yet, so I need to work out if that OTA is most suitable what else is essential (ie eyepieces, T-mounts, etc), then see if I can go for the EQ5, or have to make do with the EQ3-2.

Does that make sense?

That brings us to the second rule of thumb - an instrument is only as good as the glass you are looking through, so you are right in your assumption that you need good eyepieces as well. You will see some ridiculous prices for eyepieces which are great if you are mad keen and have the money but most of us don't and so there are plenty available that don't cost a fortune. Think second-hand as well where some bargains can be had.

[Scott]

At the moment I have 18-55mm and 55-200mm Nikkor, and a 120-400mm Sigma.

I know I'm not going to get amazing shots, but I want to push myself to get the best I can with the kit I've got. I've only done a couple of Lunar shots so far (in the beginners forum) so I have a long way to go.

I get what you're saying Dan69, My point is that with the weight restrictions and lack of guiding associated with an eq3-2, a camera with lens mounted straight on the puck might just give the best you can get with the kit you've got .

[jonathan]

Can I just chirp in here with Celestron Omni CG-4 mount and Skywatcher 150P?  Great visual setup and a good start for some photography.  People will say 'oh, you should get a fast apochromatic refractor on an NEQ6', but that is a steep learning curve and not good for a beginner who wants to do visual as well.

For about £500 the CG-4 and 150P are a good combo, that includes dual-axis tracking upgrade for the mount.  Throw in a polar scope and you're set for accurate polar alignment and some fun!

The CG-4 should easily manage the 150P with a light DSLR body attached (such as the Canon 1000D or whatever the latest version of that model line is, I find Nikons to be very heavy by comparison).

Oh, and get Every Photon Counts, I intend to buy this myself as it's reputed to be THE book to have for getting into astrophotography.

PS The Omni CG-4 is similar to the EQ3-2 but has thicker tripod legs, better for reducing vibration.

[Scott]

Can I just chirp in here with Celestron Omni CG-4 mount and Skywatcher 150P?  Great visual setup and a good start for some photography.  People will say 'oh, you should get a fast apochromatic refractor on an NEQ6', but that is a steep learning curve and not good for a beginner who wants to do visual as well.

For about £500 the CG-4 and 150P are a good combo, that includes dual-axis tracking upgrade for the mount.  Throw in a polar scope and you're set for accurate polar alignment and some fun!

The CG-4 should easily manage the 150P with a light DSLR body attached (such as the Canon 1000D or whatever the latest version of that model line is, I find Nikons to be very heavy by comparison).

Oh, and get Every Photon Counts, I intend to buy this myself as it's reputed to be THE book to have for getting into astrophotography.

PS The Omni CG-4 is similar to the EQ3-2 but has thicker tripod legs, better for reducing vibration.

yep... definately worth every penny .

[RikM]

That's a good shout. I use my EQ3-2 on the steel pipe legs from a the AZ4/EQ5/HEQ5 for solar imaging.

An ED80 on an NEQ6 would be 'easier' than the Newtonian but vastly more expensive.

[DanLXIX]

Can I just chirp in here with Celestron Omni CG-4 mount and Skywatcher 150P?  Great visual setup and a good start for some photography.  People will say 'oh, you should get a fast apochromatic refractor on an NEQ6', but that is a steep learning curve and not good for a beginner who wants to do visual as well.

For about £500 the CG-4 and 150P are a good combo, that includes dual-axis tracking upgrade for the mount.  Throw in a polar scope and you're set for accurate polar alignment and some fun!

The CG-4 should easily manage the 150P with a light DSLR body attached (such as the Canon 1000D or whatever the latest version of that model line is, I find Nikons to be very heavy by comparison).

Oh, and get Every Photon Counts, I intend to buy this myself as it's reputed to be THE book to have for getting into astrophotography.

PS The Omni CG-4 is similar to the EQ3-2 but has thicker tripod legs, better for reducing vibration.

My Nikon D7100 body weighs 765g apparently, so that is what I will be using, for better or worse. I suspect that might mean I need to look towards an EQ5 sized mount?

Every Photon Counts is on my purchase list already What's the difference between the 150P and the 150PDS?

[Tinker1947]

The PDS has a slightly shorter focal length more suited to AP..

[RikM]

Yep, just that.

[DanLXIX]

The PDS has a slightly shorter focal length more suited to AP..

OK, so the extra £45 for the PDS would be worth getting if the budget allows by the sounds of it.

[RikM]

Actually I better clarify. The optics are the same, it doesn't have a shorter 'focal length', it has a shorter tube length. This means the focus point has been moved further out, so easier to reach with DSLR cameras. The focusser is of course a dual speed rather than single speed.

[DanLXIX]

Actually I better clarify. The optics are the same, it doesn't have a shorter 'focal length', it has a shorter tube length. This means the focus point has been moved further out, so easier to reach with DSLR cameras. The focusser is of course a dual speed rather than single speed.

Thanks for this. From what I understand, this is even more important with Nikon because the focal plane is further back than other makes like Canon.

[RikM]

Thanks for this. From what I understand, this is even more important with Nikon because the focal plane is further back than other makes like Canon.

I think it is only a 2.5mm difference, but yes it may be important. I use both Canon and Starlight Xpress CCD cameras with my 150P single speed and can reach focus just fine but others have reported problems.

[happy-kat]

It is a PITA I get reading posts were members struggle to get their dslr to focus using their scope so yes the £45 for the PDS is worth it and it might have a better focuser as well.

[Owmuchonomy]

As you can see from the experts above there is so much to think about.  From personal experience it takes considerable time (and frustration and fun) to get proficient at any imaging.  My apprenticeship was served learning to find and observe first then move later to capturing the experiences.  So if I was starting over again I would make sure I invested the most time and money in choosing the right mount.  Then decide if you prefer DSO or solar system and choose your first scope on that basis.  If you are considering travelling to dark sites with your scope this has a large bearing on choice.  I'm intrigued by comments on eyepieces across SGL.  Some owners collect them like Russian dolls.  Me, I'm from Yorkshire so I own two eyepieces and one 2x barlow.  That covers 90% of what me and my family and neighbours look at.  My first imaging experience is very similar to your situation.  I used my lenses already in the bank and got some great results, particularly of M31.  Most of all enjoy!

[DanLXIX]

I think I'm set on the 150OPDS with EQ5, so I'm now working out what eyepieces to think about. I've read the very useful post on this which recommends a 2x Barlow, 8, 18, and 25mm, and the 150PDS comes with a 25mm, but does anyone know what type it is, and is it worth keeping.