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CCD camera choices

VikN46

By VikN46
in Getting Started With Imaging

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VikN46

VikN46

Posted
Posted

Hi Everyone,

I was looking for recommendations for a good all round CCD camera for DSO's, I will not be buying for a while however if I had a camera in mind I am hoping I could slowly persuade hubby :)

Thanks in advance.

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swag72

swag72

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There's a few considerations before I think any suggestions can be made

1) Chip size - What scope will you be using it with? What sort of field of view do you want to achieve? Look at a fov calculator such as this one http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

2) Mono camera or Colour (OSC)? - WIth mono you will need filters and a filter wheel, it's more sensitive and versatile. A OSC will give you a colour image from the off.

Just a couple of things that I think we need to know before any suggestions are made.

I like the Sony chipped Atik 460 camera's, but would that suit your circumstances? Do you see what I'm getting at?

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nmoushon

nmoushon

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You havent mentioned anything about guiding. I would suggest getting guiding up and working first before you jump to CCD. You already have a pretty decent Canon and will be able to take some great images with it once you get guiding. There are plenty of pics on here with images taken with lesser DSLRs and they are fantastic!

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Leveye

Leveye

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Remember also that mono cameras will need filters and more time to image the objects.Makes a color version more desirable for my purposes but the results will be better in the end with a mono version.

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Uranium235

Uranium235

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Atik 314L+ mono, thats what you need as a minimum spec, no ifs, no buts. Its a camera still capable of world class images.

Colour can be obtained with just two filters and a mono camera opens up the glorious world of narrowband imaging where you can image any time of the month (well... in Ha anyway!). But with your 150pds you will still need a coma corrector to get round stars across the sony 285 chip that it has.

Edit: But yes, as mentioned before - you need to get you guiding sorted out before getting a CCD. That will cost about 200 quid for a QHY5 and a 9x50 finder, unless you already have the finderscope - which you can then convert to carry the guide cam using an adapter from modern astronomy.

http://www.modernastronomy.com/accessories.html   (its first at the top of the page)

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VikN46

VikN46

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Hi thanks all,

Sorry if I sound a bit dense :smiley: , but what is meant by guiding? my mount is heq5 synscan pro GOTO,  please feel free to explain I am very open to help and guidance, no newbie to visual but its been a while, equipment has changed so much since my first 6 inch scope aged 8 in 1988! and imaging is an exciting new experience and a very steep learning curve.  been into photography for a while and my 4 year old with the 130p  heritage has got me excited again with it all.  

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swag72

swag72

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I think one of the best recommendations that could be made at this stage is the book 'Making Every Photon Count' available from the FLO website in the book section. This book is something of an imagers bible for DSO's and explains everything you need and why. Read it ..... twice, then you'll know what you need and why.

As for guiding, it is a separate camera / scope that connects to the mount and ensures that you stay targeted on your image all night without star trails etc. Your mount is capable of guiding, yes, but it needs the camera to tell it where to move to keep in the same place.

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Twisted Lip

Twisted Lip

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There's a few considerations before I think any suggestions can be made

1) Chip size - What scope will you be using it with? What sort of field of view do you want to achieve? Look at a fov calculator such as this one http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fovcalc.php

2) Mono camera or Colour (OSC)? - WIth mono you will need filters and a filter wheel, it's more sensitive and versatile. A OSC will give you a colour image from the off.

Just a couple of things that I think we need to know before any suggestions are made.

I like the Sony chipped Atik 460 camera's, but would that suit your circumstances? Do you see what I'm getting at?

Hi Sara, at the risk of slightly hijacking this thread (!) I've seen some of the fantastic images you have got with the 460EX - out of interest, when you upgraded did you consider any other times such as a QSI within inbuilt FW?

Will

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lensman57

lensman57

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Hi Everyone,

I was looking for recommendations for a good all round CCD camera for DSO's, I will not be buying for a while however if I had a camera in mind I am hoping I could slowly persuade hubby :)

Thanks in advance.

Given the choice of your  scope and its focal length unless you wish to image small DSOs or medium size glaxies, then a CCD that is capable of taking the larger DSOs will have to have a large chip and these are quite expensive, something like an Atik 460 or Atik 383L+ , so it really depends on what you'd  like to image. On the Mono V OSC front and given the present state of our weather I guess anyone with an OSC camera is on a winner. I have both Mono and OSC and at the moment there is very little window of opportunity to use a Mono camera where I live, I am talking about 30~40 minutes of clear spells and for an RGB image with a Mono  camera I would need more than couple of hours at a minimum.

Regards,

A.G

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swag72

swag72

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Hi Sara, at the risk of slightly hijacking this thread (!) I've seen some of the fantastic images you have got with the 460EX - out of interest, when you upgraded did you consider any other times such as a QSI within inbuilt FW?

Will

Hi Will - At the time I just went with Atik as I'd used them before and already had a filter wheel and all connections. All I had to decide between then was the chip as I was happy with the manufacturer.

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IanL

IanL

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Sorry if I sound a bit dense :smiley: , but what is meant by guiding?

Read this for the low down on guiding, which is pretty essential for all but the most basic of DSO imaging.  I'd agree with the others, start with your existing DSLR, get a guiding rig and crack that problem first, otherwise you are going to miss out on most of the potential of a CCD camera:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/188777-phd-guiding-basic-use-and-troubleshooting/

Secondly, it is not true to say that imaging with a one-shot-colour (OSC) camera is faster than a mono CCD and filters.  It is actually quicker to get an image of the same quality shooting LRGB than it is shooting OSC.  With OSC you have to shoot the detail (luminance) at the same time as the colour, and each pixel will only ever receive 1/3rd of the incoming light.  With LRGB you shoot the luminance with no filter (or just an IR blocker) and get all the light = much quicker, and then the RGB filter at a lower resolution by binning the camera pixels 2x2, which is also quicker.  Intuitively it may seem that shooting four sets of different light frames will take longer than shooting one set of OSC lights, but the maths proves otherwise (which is why LRGB was invented in the first place).

Finally, you can use the tool linked below in my signature to try out different combinations of camera and scope to see what you can fit in the field of view.  (Hundreds of cameras and scopes in the database, plus you have a full interactive sky survey so you can try it out on any target you like, adjust the framing, rotate the camera, compare multiple cameras side by side, etc.)

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VikN46

VikN46

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Hi, thanks for the replies everyone, took it all on board.

I am definitely going to take a step back and sort a guide scope and camera out first ( I think I now understand that part!) and continue with my DSLR for imaging for the time being. if the weather EVER changes!! :).

I was looking at the SW Startravel 80 for a guide scope and maybe a SW synguider or something like a QHY5 OR QHY6.

 Or any other cost effective equipment recommended which would be  suitable for my scope and mount? As a newbie its still all a little confusing so if I have listed stuff not compatible/useless for guiding, equipment recommendations would be great around £500 or preferably less if at all possible!

Thanks all.

Vicky :)

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RikM

RikM

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I use a QHY5 finder guider with a 150P and it works very nicely and cost about £250 new. As others have said, guiding is more important at this stage than a more sensitive camera. In fact, a more sensitive camera will show up tracking errors / wind wobbles more than your DSLR!

I went for a Mono camera and filters because I liked the idea of being able to get some Ha data when the moon is about. Have you noticed that clear skies seem to coincide with full moon? :D I bought a second hand Starlight Xpress SXV-H9 because I got a crazy deal on it. I was saving for an Atik 314L+ at the time and both cameras use the same Sony chip. I have been very happy with it, but you need to decide on the field you want to cover before choosing a camera.

Finally, you can use the tool linked below in my signature to try out different combinations of camera and scope to see what you can fit in the field of view.  (Hundreds of cameras and scopes in the database, plus you have a full interactive sky survey so you can try it out on any target you like, adjust the framing, rotate the camera, compare multiple cameras side by side, etc.)

Fantastic site that I have added to my favourites. Thanks :D

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ollypenrice

ollypenrice

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Remember also that mono cameras will need filters and more time to image the objects.Makes a color version more desirable for my purposes but the results will be better in the end with a mono version.

This isn't correct, the reverse is true. An OSC camera has a coloured filter in front of every pixel all of the time. They cannot be removed. An R, G or B filter eliminates two of the colours and passes only one, so it eliminates about 2/3 of the incoming light all of the time.

In mono imaging you typically shoot for three quarters of the time through a colour filter (red, green or blue) and at this time you are no more efficient than an OSC. But then for the remaining quarter of the time you shoot all three colours at once, without discriminating between them. This is the luminance layer.

Do a quick sum and it is clear that an LRGB system is about 6 to 4 faster than an OSC. (Take four hours. OSC gets four hours at a third of full light. Mono gets three hours at a third of full light and one hour at full light.)

You can further speed up colour capture by binning the colours 2x2 with a mono and you can shoot Ha in the moolight when OSC cameras are out of action.

Monochrome CCD is the fastest imaging system there is. This is precisely why it was invented. The downside is not finishing a set if the clouds get you, but if you capture LRGB, LRGB, etc you can reduce the risk.

Olly (Penrice.)

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