Jupiter 29/12 Exp200P/QHY5LIIM @ 4500mm

[SnakeyJ]

Struggled with keeping the secondary clear of dew early this morning, but conditions otherwise pretty respectable.    GRS transit captured at 0020hrs @ 4500mm focal length:

Can't seem to get WinJupos to Derotate the moon properly, but otherwise seem to be heading in a better direction.   Also decided that my Baader Q Barlow x2.25 with extension gives a better image than the Revelation x5.    

Best sub of the night from IR-PASS at same focal length:

Probably still pushing conditions with too much focal length, but will try again once the weather improves.

[Christopher Davenport]

Nice large image, but does lack some clarity. How many images in the stack?

I have not been able to de-rotate with moons and transit shadows it, causes havoc.Maybe there is a setting that I have not found. 

You could expose for moons in a separate image layer and over lay it onto the derotated image in Gimp/PS.

Some others have suggested not to go over 3000mm focal length as transparency starts to affect. 

(Unless you live in the desert on a high mountain)

Keep up good work.

[SnakeyJ]

Nice large image, but does lack some clarity. How many images in the stack?

I have not been able to de-rotate with moons and transit shadows it, causes havoc.Maybe there is a setting that I have not found. 

You could expose for moons in a separate image layer and over lay it onto the derotated image in Gimp/PS.

Some others have suggested not to go over 3000mm focal length as transparency starts to affect. 

(Unless you live in the desert on a high mountain)

Keep up good work.

Chris,

I stacked 1000 of 6000 for each channel, red and green pretty fair though the blue was not great.    Difficult processing on my laptop as the display is pretty poor, though I do agree I was pushing the focal length on this.

Just playing with the data on a quite work day - though think this looks more cartoon like and over processed - trying to strike a happy median!

[Christopher Davenport]

This is looking much nicer! 

Are you stacking in AutoStakert 2? (AS!2) It will analyse your streams and rank your images. 

I find on a poor night it I only get about 30% of my images above the 50% quality threshold.

On a good evening I am getting up to 75% of my images above the threshold.

If you can I suggest you up your percentage in the stack and let AS!2 do your de-bayer and first round of sharpening.

(It sharpens each image before the stacking, this makes the trapping noise with wavelets far more effective afterwards.)

Once restacked load tif into Registax and perform wavelets, RGBautoalign and reduce brightness increase contrast.

(Watch your histogram and make  sure you don't clip the top or edges with the RGBalign and contrast adjustments.)

Just a thought on how to up the resolution.

[SnakeyJ]

Thanks Chris - I shall give this a go now as I'm enjoying some excellent peace and quiet @ work

[Christopher Davenport]

See this excellent  guide .. .thanks to James.

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/184821-beginners-guide-to-stacking-planetary-images-with-autostakkert2/?hl=+registax

[Freddie]

Don't forget that the AS!2 graph is not a measure of ultimate quality but a measure of consistency. So you may have really bad images but if they are mostly "really bad" with a couple of terrible ones the line will show most as a high % quality and then drop off just for the terrible ones. You could therefore also have a set of mostly great images with a couple of fantastic ones and the % would be mostly low and then just a few at high % for those few fantastic ones. The graph can't therefore be used to determine when it was a good or bad night.

When using Winjupos, you want to process the individual AVIs in AS!2 and then Regi before combining them in WinJupos. RGB auto align in Regi is therefore not appropriate as you wouldn't have an RGB image in Regi, just the individual mono images.

WinJupos often has issues aligning moons when the planet is aligned properly so there is nothing unusual there. Define improvements showing on your images so keep up the good work. 

[SnakeyJ]

Thanks Freddie - much appreciated and the point on the quality graph is not lost on me.     Quite a bit of improvement over the last year, but always room for a giant leap - still hoping to catch something that sings and will be cockerhoop when it all comes together.   Just need some more clear skies to keep practicing, though that said plenty of rough data that can be re-run to improve my processing skills

[Freddie]

No problem. I find for the best results you want to process (stacking, wavelets, general processing) the 3 mono images to generate the best image possible. Only then combine in WinJupos and keep the adjustments to the RGB as small as possible. The problem with leaving the adjustments until you have the RGB is that the required adjustments will be slightly different for each of the colours so best done on the individual mono files. I believe Chris uses a colour cam hence the comment about RGB align in Regi but that is not appropriate for mono as the align should be done in Winjupos as you are doing. You will probably also find that WinJupos has trouble aligning the moons when they are over the planet as well as when they are off to one side so again, not unusual if that ever happens to you.

[neil phillips]

Struggled with keeping the secondary clear of dew early this morning, but conditions otherwise pretty respectable.    GRS transit captured at 0020hrs @ 4500mm focal length:

Can't seem to get WinJupos to Derotate the moon properly, but otherwise seem to be heading in a better direction.   Also decided that my Baader Q Barlow x2.25 with extension gives a better image than the Revelation x5.    

Best sub of the night from IR-PASS at same focal length:

Probably still pushing conditions with too much focal length, but will try again once the weather improves.

Hi Jake.The Dew often does calm everything. (certainly not always though) Downside is a dim noisy image. I had a play with it. Levels needed rising. I wanted to raise levels even more. but everytime I tried noise took over. Of course noise reduction can then be used. But that does squash detail even more. So I preferred this slightly dimmer image to one that I raised levels on even more. Not sure if you like the tweaking ? If not no worries.

The moon is best to put on reg 5 ( or 6 ) do a rgb align. take to gimp. crop. and then just paste back on in the same position. Its quick fast and accurate alignment of the moon winjupos problem.

Another go

[Christopher Davenport]

Don't forget that the AS!2 graph is not a measure of ultimate quality but a measure of consistency. So you may have really bad images but if they are mostly "really bad" with a couple of terrible ones the line will show most as a high % quality and then drop off just for the terrible ones. You could therefore also have a set of mostly great images with a couple of fantastic ones and the % would be mostly low and then just a few at high % for those few fantastic ones. The graph can't therefore be used to determine when it was a good or bad night.

When using Winjupos, you want to process the individual AVIs in AS!2 and then Regi before combining them in WinJupos. RGB auto align in Regi is therefore not appropriate as you wouldn't have an RGB image in Regi, just the individual mono images.

WinJupos often has issues aligning moons when the planet is aligned properly so there is nothing unusual there. Define improvements showing on your images so keep up the good work. 

Good point on the consistency of images ... having said that consistency must be have a correlation to seeing. 

As the seeing blurs and sharpens images it is creating in-consistency, so the more it happens the worse the the seeing?

If the overall transparency is bad then the consistency will be even for bad images. (So need to keep a eye on best transparency.)

I don't do mono, but for others mono readers, why not do WinJupos and then Regi Wavelets and RGB align?

Otherwise is it not to difficult to see what affect your channels adjustments are having on the final image.

[neil phillips]

No problem. I find for the best results you want to process (stacking, wavelets, general processing) the 3 mono images to generate the best image possible. Only then combine in WinJupos and keep the adjustments to the RGB as small as possible. The problem with leaving the adjustments until you have the RGB is that the required adjustments will be slightly different for each of the colours so best done on the individual mono files. I believe Chris uses a colour cam hence the comment about RGB align in Regi but that is not appropriate for mono as the align should be done in Winjupos as you are doing. You will probably also find that WinJupos has trouble aligning the moons when they are over the planet as well as when they are off to one side so again, not unusual if that ever happens to you.

Completely correct Freddie.  Each channel does require different processing sharpening ect. Though I will add. I do both. Meaning I process each RGB to its own requirement. I then process the image as a whole. But this is something I have had to think long and hard about. for example. if one is going to do further RGB combined processing sharpening ( which I do ) if the blue for example is noisy ( it often is ) sometimes it might make sense to leave the blue slightly soft. With post RGB processing in mind. Personally I think even if processing has been done well on the individual RGBs Some amount of further work does benefit the Final RGB

The so called problem of winjupos softening the image during RGB combine ( I don't see it as a problem. But a plus )

Actually helps this idea of post Processing the final combined RGB. It gives a little bit of headroom for further work, in my opinion. Others may disagree. But that's what I tend to find with my images and camera filter setup.

[Freddie]

Chris, as Neil has said above the problem with doing processing on the combined RGB is that the same is being applied to the R,G and B image when each usually needs a slightly different process. I use similar wavelets for R and G but B is always quite different. Once combined into the RGB, as I said I try and keep my further adjustments to a minimum but some further adjustment is always needed, especially to get the colours right (though right is a subjective view) I do however go back and adjust the individual R, G or B and then recombine if I'm not happy. In terms of RGB align, WinJupos takes care of that (other than often with the moons) so there is no need for an RGB align in Regi. If you get a chance to do some mono imaging you will find that the whole process from capture to processing is completely different than for colour. It's more expensive obviously due to the need for filters and a wheel but does give better control and fine detail. hope that helps.

[SnakeyJ]

Much better now - for some reason Firecapture 2.3 Beta 15 was setting the SER file headers to be colour GRGB bayered and AS!2 was attempting to debayer my captures (I'm shooting mono @ 8 bit with QHY5L-IIM)!   Thanks to Chris Garry and PIPP, once more to the rescue, my data is rather better than I originally thought

Here's the new image, based on the same captures as before:

 

The left hand side is a straight Gimp alignment, the right hand image is the WJ RGB derotate.     OK the WJ one has a little more detail, but is very noisy in comparison.     Both images got the same post process, bar some manual fixing on IO in the first.

I was still probably pushing the focal length a little for conditions, only using 25% of my captures of 6000 frames/channel and the blue channel is still very soft - however, I think it's starting to get there for an 8" Newt at least

[neil phillips]

The top image is considerably better Jake. Just goes to show what processing can do

[SnakeyJ]

Hi Jake.The Dew often does calm everything. (certainly not always though) Downside is a dim noisy image. I had a play with it. Levels needed rising. I wanted to raise levels even more. but everytime I tried noise took over. Of course noise reduction can then be used. But that does squash detail even more. So I preferred this slightly dimmer image to one that I raised levels on even more. Not sure if you like the tweaking ? If not no worries.

The moon is best to put on reg 5 ( or 6 ) do a rgb align. take to gimp. crop. and then just paste back on in the same position. Its quick fast and accurate alignment of the moon winjupos problem.

j2 png.png

Another go

j4 png.png

Neil,

Extremely useful and much more detail eeked out even with a cautious approach - I need to man up with the wavelets!    I manually did my moon in the last image, but will re-do with R6 in future - the RGB align is very useful.

Thanks - Jake

[neil phillips]

Neil,

Extremely useful and much more detail eeked out even with a cautious approach - I need to man up with the wavelets!    I manually did my moon in the last image, but will re-do with R6 in future - the RGB align is very useful.

Thanks - Jake

The black point is a bit grey Jake on image analyser you have colour mapper just use black point. I zoom in on the grey edge then drop the blacks until the edge is gone

Example here your image black point drop

Some further colour and level adjustments on analyser here.

Its certainly showing the central spot of the GRS.  its a great program Jake. The downside is dropping blacks has clipped the moon. But the moon could be done separately

great capture with 8" Scope Jake. your improving. No question

[Space Cowboy]

These are certainly your best images yet Jake. Personally I would back off a little on the fl to get a better signal to noise ratio especially in less than good seeing.

[Christopher Davenport]

Chris, as Neil has said above the problem with doing processing on the combined RGB is that the same is being applied to the R,G and B image when each usually needs a slightly different process. I use similar wavelets for R and G but B is always quite different. Once combined into the RGB, as I said I try and keep my further adjustments to a minimum but some further adjustment is always needed, especially to get the colours right (though right is a subjective view) I do however go back and adjust the individual R, G or B and then recombine if I'm not happy. In terms of RGB align, WinJupos takes care of that (other than often with the moons) so there is no need for an RGB align in Regi. If you get a chance to do some mono imaging you will find that the whole process from capture to processing is completely different than for colour. It's more expensive obviously due to the need for filters and a wheel but does give better control and fine detail. hope that helps.

Thanks for this advice,I knew there was method to the madness.

I may split my channels in my raw data and then play with this approach.

I know it is cheating, but will give me some practice and should yield some benefit (I hope.)

[SnakeyJ]

Thanks to Stuart, Neil, Freddie and Chris on this - great strides today and will have a further play tomorrow.   I managed to get a whole 8000 frames capture in L tonight before the clouds rolled in - so looks like this may be it for a few days.   Fingers crossed for Jan 5th

[LeeWilky]

Wow those pics give me a lot of hope as to what can be achieved with my scope!

Love them.

[sologuitarist61]

Excellent!

[SnakeyJ]

Wow those pics give me a lot of hope as to what can be achieved with my scope!

Love them.

Thanks Lee - well collimated the scope can produce excellent results when conditions are good.    But If you really want to see what this scope is capable of for planetary then have a look at t_ilan_s Explorer 200P images of Saturn and Jupiter from Israel and emilf's images with 8" F6 Newt from Romania.

A nice sensitive, fast camera really helps at higher focal lengths.    I find F15 is reasonably consistent in fair to good seeing/transparancy, F20 possible in very good conditions and F25  is probably best reserved for those mythical perfect nights!    Good focus and collimation are essential, but difficult to nail at high focal lengths.     Also worth looking at/modding the focuser, mirror cell and flocking the ota.

[LeeWilky]

Thanks Lee - well collimated the scope can produce excellent results when conditions are good.    But If you really want to see what this scope is capable of for planetary then have a look at t_ilan_s Explorer 200P images of Saturn and Jupiter from Israel and emilf's images with 8" F6 Newt from Romania.

A nice sensitive, fast camera really helps at higher focal lengths.    I find F15 is reasonably consistent in fair to good seeing/transparancy, F20 possible in very good conditions and F25  is probably best reserved for those mythical perfect nights!    Good focus and collimation are essential, but difficult to nail at high focal lengths.     Also worth looking at/modding the focuser, mirror cell and flocking the ota.

Ill check them out thanks mate

these are as good as i can manage at the mo using a DSLR.  Not tried the Xbox live cam yet due to nothing but clouds for over a week now!

[SnakeyJ]

Ill check them out thanks mate

these are as good as i can manage at the mo using a DSLR. Not tried the Xbox live cam yet due to nothing but clouds for over a week now!

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Lee, these are good results for DSLR on Jupiter. Are they single exposures or stacked videos?

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