Which planetary camera

[Naemeth]

I'm looking at starting an AP rig later this year, and will be doing some planetary imaging too. I was wondering, what are the options for cameras for planetary AP? I already have a DSLR, but a DSLR is not the best instrument for planetary imaging, or so I've heard.

I'll eventually be using a SW Mak 180 Pro, and then a C14 once I've saved all the pennies.

[Rihard]

I'm looking at starting an AP rig later this year, and will be doing some planetary imaging too. I was wondering, what are the options for cameras for planetary AP? I already have a DSLR, but a DSLR is not the best instrument for planetary imaging, or so I've heard.

I'll eventually be using a SW Mak 180 Pro, and then a C14 once I've saved all the pennies.

What is your budget?

If you can grab a second hand SPC900, that will be a great camera for planetary. Other webcams might do the job as well.

Or else you might go for a high FPS camera, either mono or colour.  There are several brands out there, Imaging Source seem to be very popular but I have no experience with them.

[Naemeth]

What is your budget?

If you can grab a second hand SPC900, that will be a great camera for planetary. Other webcams might do the job as well.

Or else you might go for a high FPS camera, either mono or colour.  There are several brands out there, Imaging Source seem to be very popular but I have no experience with them.

Budget is probably going to be about £200, if I can make gains in image quality by going higher I probably would, but an absolute limit of about £500.

[Grotemobile]

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/imaging-source-cameras/dfk-21au04as-colour.html

A lot of people use theses, with good results.

S/Hand ones come up on Astro Buy & sell. 

Steve

[SnakeyJ]

Undoubtedly something more sensitive and faster is always just around the corner. However, at the current time the ZWO ASI120MM/MC or QHY5Ĺ-IIM/C seem to be most popular. The 618 chipped image source cameras are also excellent, but many seem to be sold on at the moment.

typed on my mobile with Tapatalk

[Naemeth]

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/imaging-source-cameras/dfk-21au04as-colour.html

A lot of people use theses, with good results.

S/Hand ones come up on Astro Buy & sell. 

Steve

Which brings up another point, Mono or Colour? I suppose it doesn't make as much difference with planetary as deep sky because you can still image the Planets in Moonlight, and AFAIK you don't need narrowband filters for them.

[Rihard]

Which brings up another point, Mono or Colour? I suppose it doesn't make as much difference with planetary as deep sky because you can still image the Planets in Moonlight, and AFAIK you don't need narrowband filters for them.

The advantage of mono should sharper images and the possibility of doing some RGB imaging in the future.

I read somewhere that mono is also necessary when imaging the atmospheric features of Venus (with an appropriate UV-Pass filter or a #47  filter), since the bayer of a regular colour sensor would not let in the UV wavelenghts. With the colour sensor instead you will obtain colour images of all planets without having to mess with RGB.

[Naemeth]

The advantage of mono should sharper images and the possibility of doing some RGB imaging in the future.

I read somewhere that mono is also necessary when imaging the atmospheric features of Venus (with an appropriate UV-Pass filter or a #47  filter), since the bayer of a regular colour sensor would not let in the UV wavelenghts. With the colour sensor instead you will obtain colour images of all planets without having to mess with RGB.

That's 1 all. Is colour easier to process for a beginner like myself?

[Space Cowboy]

Colour cams are much easier and under UK variable seeing conditions will produce more consistent results. In an ideal world mono RGB will produce the best images but unless you plan moving to Spain or Greece a colour cam will be easier.

For £200 its got to be the QHY5L-II or ZWO ASI120 MC.

[riklaunim]

Colour cams are much easier and under UK variable seeing conditions will produce more consistent results. In an ideal world mono RGB will produce the best images but unless you plan moving to Spain or Greece a colour cam will be easier.

For £200 its got to be the QHY5L-II or ZWO ASI120 MC.

That's not actually true. Color camera is limited to shooting color only. Like for example low altitude Saturn will never be in perfect focused due to atmospheric dispersion (unless expensive corrector used, then it rocks). Also if the seeing is not so best you can't aid the RGB with luminance channel. Mono camera can shoot luminance through various filter - from L to more infrared filters (limiting bad seeing, dispersion, but altering colors a bit) and it can refocus each channel on Saturn making it sharper in the end. If you want high resolution planetary imaging on average European sky then such mono + a lot of filters is the way to go for maximum efficiency. You don't have to start with all of that, but that's the solution for average seeing and planetary imaging. Plus special imaging of Venus (UV and IR), Jupiter (CH4), or filtered lunar/solar imaging is specific to mono cameras.

[Space Cowboy]

Not strictly true Rik you can use a IR 742 filter with a colour cam which I did on Saturn last year but yes a mono cam does have an advantage at that low alt and as you say Venus clouds can be imaged using mono cam and UV filter which you can't do with a colour cam.

There is a 3rd way which I use. Rather than using RGB filters I combine the colour and mono cams which is a simpler method than using an RGB filter wheel. This worked very well for me on Saturn but so far I've not seen any real advantage over using just the colour cam on Jupiter.

Personally I would say spend as much as you can on a really good scope i.e at least 10" if you can afford it and  use a colour cam. For a beginner that is the easiest way of starting.

[riklaunim]

The difference may be like this (RGB vs LRGB where L turned out good and RGB channels not that much):

[Space Cowboy]

That certainly shows how vulnerable RGB imaging is to fluctuating seeing and the L channel has salvaged some detail (though rather noisy). The beauty of colour cams is that you only need say 1 min of good seeing to get a sharp colour image where as with RGB if the seeing dips for one or two channels you have to use them to produce a colour image even if they are poor.

[riklaunim]

With luminance channel only the L channel must be sharp and clear - and it can be shot with various filters depending on seeing (I use the standard L filter, yellow, orange and red visual filters which work as a very bright VIS+IR filters cutting blue/green more prone to bad seeing while being brighter than ProPlanet and friends). With smaller apertures it's easier, but with bigger, like those I used - 11 and 14" there is always a limit on detail each band can provide. Like green may look nice when recording, there may be a lot of "good" frames but the stack won't sharpen as nicely as the luminance channel. Luminance channels are much brighter so the gain can be lower and/or camera can work faster (huge difference for Saturn) - but they too need at least decent seeing. L best, dark red less perfect and so on. Barbados, Australia, Philippines would help, but not everybody can go there

There will be big difference between 180 mm and 355mm apertures in planetary imaging. As of prices - good condition used C14 on the USA market is around $2000 (for a 30-40 years old OTA ).

[Naemeth]

Not strictly true Rik you can use a IR 742 filter with a colour cam which I did on Saturn last year but yes a mono cam does have an advantage at that low alt and as you say Venus clouds can be imaged using mono cam and UV filter which you can't do with a colour cam.

There is a 3rd way which I use. Rather than using RGB filters I combine the colour and mono cams which is a simpler method than using an RGB filter wheel. This worked very well for me on Saturn but so far I've not seen any real advantage over using just the colour cam on Jupiter.

Personally I would say spend as much as you can on a really good scope i.e at least 10" if you can afford it and  use a colour cam. For a beginner that is the easiest way of starting.

It will be a SW Mak 180, good optics and reasonable aperture before the C14 - but I think I may go for a mono cam - perhaps a DFK, but I'm really not sure (still!).

At least I'm set on Mono now .

[coppernob]

The debate as to whether LRGB filters and mono cameras versus colour cameras  is confusing me. I worry about the cost of the colour filters as well as the extra time involved in using them. Can anyone recommend the minimum in quality of LRGB filters and wheel and their rough cost on top of the mono camera cost of course? At the moment I am thinking of upgrading to a colour ZWO ASI120 for £240 which is the limit of my budget from my neximage 1.

[riklaunim]

The debate as to whether LRGB filters and mono cameras versus colour cameras  is confusing me. I worry about the cost of the colour filters as well as the extra time involved in using them. Can anyone recommend the minimum in quality of LRGB filters and wheel and their rough cost on top of the mono camera cost of course? At the moment I am thinking of upgrading to a colour ZWO ASI120 for £240 which is the limit of my budget from my neximage 1.

Cheapest LRGB set is 90 GBP for QHY (or ASI) set, and you can get a filter wheel below 100. But you don't have to take the mono camera path if you don't want to. Color cameras can work too. That all depends on how much you want to specialize in Solar System imaging

[Space Cowboy]

For the same price you could buy mono & colour cams plus a IR 742 filter for the mono cam. Best of both worlds without the hassle of RGB filters.

Here is one of my Jupiter images using a colour cam and a Saturn captured by combining the mono & colour cams :

[riklaunim]

I used ProPlanet a lot, but I found it to be bit to dark/aggressive on planets (IrRGB of Jupiter will have different colors than RGB or LRGB). I switched to yellow/orange/red visual filters for IR imaging. They pass the whole IR and a part of the visual spectrum. And they are very bright.

[Space Cowboy]

Yep IR 742 does effect the colour balance. The Saturn image above was taken using a red filter on the mono cam and then added to a colour cam shot as the Luminance channel.

[ArmyAirForce]

Sky conditions play a large part in the final image. This was the best I managed with the SPC900 webcam. Max 10 frames per second. Cost inc nose piece about £65 plus shipping.

I recently borrowed an ASI120MC and got this last night/this morning. Max I've got so far is 213 frames per second. Cost about £190 plus shipping.

The fast frame rate really makes a difference in UK sky.

[lensman57]

For the same price you could buy mono & colour cams plus a IR 742 filter for the mono cam. Best of both worlds without the hassle of RGB filters.

Here is one of my Jupiter images using a colour cam and a Saturn captured by combining the mono & colour cams :

those are great images mate, well done.

A.G

[Naemeth]

I'm still feeling confused over this question. The scope I will use has now changed (Orion Optics OMC200), and I think I've narrowed it down to a few options, bear with me on this one:

QHY5-II Mono Planetary Camera, DMK21AU04.AS Mono Camera, ZWO ASI120MM/MC. Which would be best?

[riklaunim]

- DMK21AU04.AS is old, very old, avoid it.

- QHY5-IIL (not QHY5-II) has the same sensor as ASI120. Both supported by FireCapture, but I picked ASI (bigger userbase, no issues reported), QHY5-II is less efficient.

[Naemeth]

- DMK21AU04.AS is old, very old, avoid it.

- QHY5-IIL (not QHY5-II) has the same sensor as ASI120. Both supported by FireCapture, but I picked ASI (bigger userbase, no issues reported), QHY5-II is less efficient.

Thank you, I guess I know which I'm going for then .