Building highland observatory - Hardware advice!!

[mylatestwhim]

As title, my father and I have decided to build an observatory into one of his outbuildings in the highlands of Scotland. We are working through goooogle for info on the structure and design which my Dad is dealing with but I'm on the lookout for the best scope for the job. The skies are very very dark around there with literally zero light pollution and the scope will not move from the plinth therefore size is not an issue.

In a past life I owned an orion XT10" goto (i think) and it was fantastic if not a little big to move around but this is now not a factor.

I'm thinking about a used 14" or maybe 16" Dob should fit the bill nicely but I am open to advice. My budget will be £1,000 - £1,500 used but I would like a selection of eyepieces too ideally. Not worried about motors but a goto type feature is a must.

Am I asking too much? What would be the best bang for buck for this money for a fixed scope?

We will incorporate the sliding roof section into the corner of this barn and the inside will be dry lined.(see attached image)

I am open to suggestions guys!

Many thanks,

[nmoushon]

You might be able to get one with goto of that size second hand and have a little bit left over for a nice eye piece or two but not if you buy new. Not sure how big the aperture there is that has goto for the more common brands, ie skywatcher, but I know that there are some add on kits that can be fit to pretty much any size scope. As most large aperture scopes dont come with goto and the common brands dont make the very large aperture. So pick as large an aperture as your budget can afford, don't forget to budget for the EPs. Also if your building a obsy make sure to build it big enough to allow for you to upgrade in the future. You will no doubt be bit by the aperture bug and you will want to shoot yourself in the foot if you build the obsy just big enough for a 16" and thus when you want the 20" or 24" it wont fit in your obsy. Plus you'll want to have comfortable room all around the scope anyways.

[mylatestwhim]

You might be able to get one with goto of that size second hand and have a little bit left over for a nice eye piece or two but not if you buy new. Not sure how big the aperture there is that has goto for the more common brands, ie skywatcher, but I know that there are some add on kits that can be fit to pretty much any size scope. As most large aperture scopes dont come with goto and the common brands dont make the very large aperture. So pick as large an aperture as your budget can afford, don't forget to budget for the EPs. Also if your building a obsy make sure to build it big enough to allow for you to upgrade in the future. You will no doubt be bit by the aperture bug and you will want to shoot yourself in the foot if you build the obsy just big enough for a 16" and thus when you want the 20" or 24" it wont fit in your obsy. Plus you'll want to have comfortable room all around the scope anyways.

Good call there. We are super aware about making it future proof so there needs to be plenty of room for expansion. We are checking out all of the horizons too as the place is quite hilly so this may have a bearing on the scope?

I am happy with the idea of a big dob so it all boils down to what is available in the classies I guess..

[Steve Ward]

Bear in mind that a Dobsonian will be virtually useless unless you mount it atop a mound in the middle of the observatory , the view will be severely restricted by the walls methinks .... !

[mylatestwhim]

Bear in mind that a Dobsonian will be virtually useless unless you mount it atop a mound in the middle of the observatory , the view will be severely restricted by the walls methinks .... !

Yeah this is our consideration. We will build a floating floor and elevate the position of the scope so all of the horizons can be viewed. We will mock up a scope before buying one to check for restrictions of view. We are hoping to design the space around the scope

[Laurie61]

What a great spot  If you are considering a used dob have a look at this http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=76051 a little smaller than you have been looking at but a super all rounder. Looks like you would need to find a dob mount for it.   

[nmoushon]

Unless you are on the side of a hill. So there's really no way around them cutting into your horizon. You can move it to another location to open up one view but it will more than likely cut into another. I personally would find the best location to put the scope based on ease of access and ease to build. Then I would look to see if this spot has anything obstructing any views. ie trees, house, ect. If there are obstructions then I would see if moving it will completey clear these obstructions, if not I would try to see what the obstruct and then how much of the sky. Remember stars move so they will clear the obstructions either later in the night or on another date. The only views that this would be the most difficult to get is for the South. As those have the shortest window both above the horizon in a single night and above the horizon for the season. So that would be my most import views to considers. Especially for you as you are very far North. Not sure how much you can view the Milky Way during the summer but for me at about 40 degrees N lat. I only have about 1 month of optimal imagin time for objects that are near the center of the Milky Way core. ie. M20. Even then its only gets about 15-20 degrees above the horizon.

[Steve Ward]

The "floating" floor doesn't sound too clever to me , the mounting of the telescope needs to very solid and more importantly completely independent of the part you will be viewing from .

If you go down the big dob route I would suggest making a small appropriately sized concrete pad for the scope to stand on in a position near the barn that gives good all round views , and use the barn simply for storage not observing.

The money saved from the barn roll-off roof conversion could then be used to boost the optics pot ... 

[nmoushon]

The "floating" floor doesn't sound too clever to me , the mounting of the telescope needs to very solid and more importantly completely independent of the part you will be viewing from .

If you go down the big dob route I would suggest making a small appropriately sized concrete pad for the scope to stand on in a position near the barn that gives good all round views , and use the barn simply for storage not observing.

The money saved from the barn roll-off roof conversion could then be used to boost the optics pot ... 

I would agree with this. Dont do a floating floor. I would be making it of solid concrete. Or design an obsy that has a roll off roof and fold down walls. Or something similar to that. Would have to play with the design to meet your needs.

[Steve Ward]

The barn has thick stone walls so fold-downs would be fun ... 

Surely making a raised floor big and solid enough to view from , a roll off roof , access to the raised floor etc , etc would eat into precious funds that would be much better spent on the Dob.

After all a Go-to Dob is between £2000-£2500 new ,  depending in 350mm or 400mm .

S/H they would be about right budget-wise , but with the savings from construction the new price would be in reach ... 

[mylatestwhim]

Unless you are on the side of a hill. So there's really no way around them cutting into your horizon. You can move it to another location to open up one view but it will more than likely cut into another. I personally would find the best location to put the scope based on ease of access and ease to build. Then I would look to see if this spot has anything obstructing any views. ie trees, house, ect. If there are obstructions then I would see if moving it will completey clear these obstructions, if not I would try to see what the obstruct and then how much of the sky. Remember stars move so they will clear the obstructions either later in the night or on another date. The only views that this would be the most difficult to get is for the South. As those have the shortest window both above the horizon in a single night and above the horizon for the season. So that would be my most import views to considers. Especially for you as you are very far North. Not sure how much you can view the Milky Way during the summer but for me at about 40 degrees N lat. I only have about 1 month of optimal imagin time for objects that are near the center of the Milky Way core. ie. M20. Even then its only gets about 15-20 degrees above the horizon.

Very valid point thanks I looked at this project a few years ago and the agreement was the corner of the barn being th best vantage point. He is on the side of a hill. This pic gives a better view. The shed has power and water and it would be easy to dry line a section

  

The "floating" floor doesn't sound too clever to me , the mounting of the telescope needs to very solid and more importantly completely independent of the part you will be viewing from .

If you go down the big dob route I would suggest making a small appropriately sized concrete pad for the scope to stand on in a position near the barn that gives good all round views , and use the barn simply for storage not observing.

The money saved from the barn roll-off roof conversion could then be used to boost the optics pot ... 

  noted and agreed. The scope will sit on a concrete plinth and it will be fully independent so no flexing or vibration will get to the optics. Budget not too much of an issue for pops but it is for me and I'm buying the scope :-/

The barn has thick stone walls so fold-downs would be fun ... 

Surely making a raised floor big and solid enough to view from , a roll off roof , access to the raised floor etc , etc would eat into precious funds that would be much better spent on the Dob.

After all a Go-to Dob is between £2000-£2500 new ,  depending in 350mm or 400mm .

S/H they would be about right budget-wise , but with the savings from construction the new price would be in reach ... 

Argh I guess we are getting aperture fever already :-)

Thanks for all the advice. I will hopefully get some pencil scetches up soon ;-)

[nightfisher]

I would second the above, in steve wards post maybe turn the room that would be an obsy into a warm room/storage area, and make a solid pad to put the dob on for viewing from

[mylatestwhim]

I would second the above, in steve wards post maybe turn the room that would be an obsy into a warm room/storage area, and make a solid pad to put the dob on for viewing from

Thanks, the best, most elevated place is the roof of the cow barn but as you can imagine, a crinkly tin roof deflects (a lot) and is a mare for viewing.

I think we could make a solid concrete plinth that is reinforced by a steel frame underneath and perhaps just an access hatch from inside. The underside of the roof is around 8' so would need a lot of building up to make the space suitable

[Tinker1947]

If you want the views of a Dob go for a Reflector on a EQ mount its raised off the floor has Goto and if its just viewing a i think a 12" reflector would work on a EQ6 mount, if you may want to image some time a 10" Reflector and a NEQ6 would work out around £1500....

[mylatestwhim]

What a great spot  If you are considering a used dob have a look at this http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=76051 a little smaller than you have been looking at but a super all rounder. Looks like you would need to find a dob mount for it.

Thanks for this I was looking at it last night. Pity it's not got the mount. Lovely bit of kit

[mylatestwhim]

If you want the views of a Dob go for a Reflector on a EQ mount its raised off the floor has Goto and if its just viewing a i think a 12" reflector would work on a EQ6 mount, if you may want to image some time a 10" Reflector and a NEQ6 would work out around £1500....

Just having a wee look at reflectors. I'm just wanting the best setup for under £1500 but the imaging option does catch my attention for the future. Will this scope adjust itself on an NEQ6?

[Tinker1947]

This is a Skywatcher S250P-DS on a NEQ6 with some imagine gear attached...

FLO do this.... http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-300p-ds-neq6-pro.html

[mylatestwhim]

This is a Skywatcher S250P-DS on a NEQ6 with some imagine gear attached...

FLO do this.... http://www.firstlightoptics.com/reflectors/skywatcher-explorer-300p-ds-neq6-pro.html

That looks a belter. I'm going to do some reading!

[laser_jock99]

Looks like a great potential location for a dark sky observatory.

Be warned about large Newtonians on permanent piers though- the eyepiece can get very high off the ground.

You might need a stepladder to get to the eyepiece! Not a problem for me as I mainly only do imaging.

It's a fine balance between:

1) Having enough pier height to adequately see over the observatory walls.

2) Being able to close the observatory roof with the scope still mounted.

3) Being able to access the 'business end' at high elevations.

I didn't really design my pier with a 12" Newtonian in mind (I was all refractors at on point!) but it still just about works for me.

[mylatestwhim]

Looks like a great potential location for a dark sky observatory.Be warned about large Newtonians on permanent piers though- the eyepiece can get very high off the ground.You might need a stepladder to get to the eyepiece! Not a problem for me as I mainly only do imaging.It's a fine balance between:1) Having enough pier height to adequately see over the observatory walls.2) Being able to close the observatory roof with the scope still mounted.3) Being able to access the 'business end' at high elevations.I didn't really design my pier with a 12" Newtonian in mind (I was all refractors at on point!) but it still just about works for me.

Heloooo! Now that is fantastic! It looks like Arizona! You know your scope is big enough when you need steps

3 valid points. I'm hoping my dad at nearly 80 will make some use of it so if it could be left in a ready state then all the better

[Tinker1947]

With any GoTo EQ mounted scope, run it under EQMOD and use the  defined "PARK" option this will then allow the scope to auto park sideways and flat so the roof if its a roll off can close without having to take the scope off the mount, when its fired up with the roof open the "UNPARK" option will have the scope auto slew to the home position still aligned and ready to be used, this will of course need a PC or Laptop but there not required to be all sing dancing type, cheap and cheerful will do the job....

[mylatestwhim]

Thanks for the advice. After much thought I've decided to ditch the dob and keep my options open by going for a light and portable scope so I can use it elsewhere in the future. I think I have settled on the celestronn c9.25 on an equatorial mount with go to. For the little time I'll be getting I may as well use an easy device with the option of photography maybe in the future. http://www.firstlightoptics.com/advanced-vx-goto/celestron-c925-sct-vx-goto.html

Celestron C9.25 SCT VX GOTO is what is in stock but a similar package is out and I'm not sure the difference? I'm guessing the mount but how? Celestron C9.25-SGT XLT GOTO

Sensible or a bad move do you think?

[Tinker1947]

Sensible.....