Portass Lathe - Finally at home!

[SnakeyJ]

Six years ago I was offered a hobbyist lathe for not very much, though I can't recall the exact price now.    The owner had to give up due to failing eyesight, but showed me some amazing work that he had turned up over the years - during his youth he worked with Saunders Roe who made the Princess Flying Boat and SRN 1 hovercraft.    Ah those days when the Island boasted real engineers and know how - however, slight digression....

I brought the lathe to turn up graphite nozzles for micro and mini hybrid rocket engines, but never got around to using it in anger and it languished for a couple of years at my workshops before being moved over to my brother in laws.   It's sat there sadly unused for the last four years.

I don't know a great deal about it, having last used one 30 years ago in GCSE metalwork - though enough to realise it had variable speed, forward and reverse and thread cutting features.   So on collecting and dusting it off I've done a little research and believe it's a Portass PD5 having found some info online at http://www.lathes.co.uk/portass/page7.html

Whilst not as good as the Myfords, this all seems pretty usable and everything seems to be in pretty good working condition.

The covers come off after 4 years at my brother in laws:

Little by way of tools - spare chuck and cheap faced tools:

I'll need to find a few more tools and definitely a tail-stock chuck.

Vital stats are 3 5/8" centre hight and 17" between centres (92 x 430mm).

The gear ratios are published on the earlier link, assuming I have the correct model and the lead-screw is reckoned to be 8 tpi x 5/8" - though I doubt this is capable of producing fine threads in metric sizes, I am entirely ignorant on thread cutting.   It is obviously of its time with regard to safety features, though I have fitted a mounted kill switch in line with the supply and the gears have guards even if the v belts and lead screw are unprotected

If anyone has ever owned or operated one of these, I'd be very interested to hear about practical limits and particularly the thread cutting capability.    Also be keen to know any good online tutorials/books and what to lube and check for wear and tear.    A good source for spares and cutting tools would also be useful.

Sorry for such a long list of wants - though any comments, contributions or cautionary tails very gratefully received

[floppygoose]

Wow, that's a shot from the past, but if it works - so what. Looks like the variable speed is by manually adjusting the drive belt. Good luck with the thread-cutting 

Phil

[SnakeyJ]

Certainly is Phil - I would guess around 50 years old, though the motor looks rather younger!

All wired up and running and the bearings/gears seem okay - though it could all do with a strip, clean and grease which may be tomorrow evenings adventure.

On my cursary examination it appears that the gearing (f-n-r) is just related to the lead-screw.   There is a shaft lock that on the main drive, but speed is simply controlled by the three belt positions.    A little simpler than expected, but I'll need to experiment more to confirm all operation.    Quite a lot of slack/backlash on the cross and top slide wheels, though these are pretty rudimentary this ma just need some adjustment.   The apron moves quite nicely and is nice and solid, though a build up of gunge on the ways towards the tailstock makes things progressively sticky towards max travel.

Otherwise it looks like it has survived it's years in storage remarkably well - thanks mainly to my brother in law keeping it covered and out of harms way.

[DIYASTRO]

I havnt seen one of thse for over 40 years! If it has been well lubricated and not 'thrashed' by attempting work load that is beyond it then it should cut threads.

It will be imperial threads and not to BA pitch or ME pitches I suspect. but capable of BSW, BSF etc.

all depends on the gears at the left of the motor drive which drive the spindle for the saddle.

The chuck scroll will perhaps need to be looked at and a new chuch should be a concideration. The gibbs for take up on the vee ways should be taken out and checked perhaps regrinding and then you can start the proccedures of aligning the bed saddle cross slide and tail stock. your then in for fun.

The main thing is to check the bushes / bearings on the headstock, they will benifit from a good clean and lubrication, check the drive shafts for 'disscolouration' indication of a new set!

Non the less I would like one of those

Boyd

[SnakeyJ]

Boyd,

Extremely useful information here and very much appreciated - I'm learning a lot of new terminology tonight, but a few bits have come back to me and I'm starting to find my way around more confidently.    Both chucks seem to operate freely and I've changed them over so nothing seized up which is good.      I'll post some pictures of both once I've stripped and cleaned them as no other identifying marks visible.     Their doesn't seem to be any discernable play on the spindle bushes, but will draw out the shaft to check for discolouration - is this indicative of running dry and being damaged by heat?

Many thanks for such a great response - I thought there was a good chance someone here had at least seen or heard of these!

Probably not much call for the BSW/BSF Threads on modern gear, but I have a few friends who may want to play for bike, car restoration purposes and it would be nice to learn the machining process.

[DIYASTRO]

Jake,

look after it! its nice. Good solid engineering not like a lot of modern imports etc.

Have a good look at the gearing at headstock... that will tell you what the lead screw is capable of doing. Yes.... have a look at the bushes at head stock discolouration usually means no lubricant and can be a problem but some TLC iron whool and oil can be a wonder.

Dont be fooled by the idea that BSW/ BSF is all over.... Meade (across the water) still use these threads!

We .. in Europe where told some 40 years ago that we had to go metric.. I was at the 'school' at that time and we learnt both systems including grads where 360 deg is 100 units. When you try and convert that into rotory table / indexing head equations it became a nightmare.

Look after that M/c.. its done it's  job now it wants to simply please!

Boyd

[skybadger]

Tail stock chuck? Where are you going to find one of those. I have a myford from the 50's and it does good work still

Mike

[coulthamst]

Note that the lathe is back-geared, which will give another (lower) range of cutting speeds when engaged and the appropriate drive pin transferred/inserted. Lathes of this period will all cut metric threads when a particular gear is inserted in the drive train- but I'm afraid after so long I can't remember the number of teeth! I think it was a high prime number, but should be researchable..

Jim.

[Bizibilder]

Hi Jake - That's a good lathe you have there.  Whatever you do don't take the main bearings apart!!  They are shimmed in the factory and you won't get them back together again.  It is highly unlikely they are badly worn as the lathe looks to be in exellent condition - the paint is not chipped or missing for a start.  The general surface rust will come off with a bit of wire wool (a kitchen scouring pad will work too) and some thin oil.  Just a general clean up should see the lathe ready to go!  Clean it carefully first and oil it well - Not engine oil please, it goes sticky in no time.  You can buy machine oil (http://www.myford.co.uk/acatalog/Oils.html ) (you can get cheaper!! but 1 litre will last a very long time).

To cut metric threads you will need a 63 tooth wheel - these can be bought but you may need to modify them - I think Myford changewheels will fit (same website), but I'm not absolutely sure (they are 20DP 20° pressure angle).

By the way - beware the "chinese copies" of lathe parts like changewheels that are available - many of them are truly rubbish!!!!! 

Don't bother with those carbide tipped tools - they will work but need a very special set-up for sharpening them (special wheel and a diamond finisher) - get yourself a set of HSS tools http://www.warco.co.uk/high-speed-steel-tool-bits/302779-8-piece-set-high-speed-steel-ground-tools.html  The 8mm size should be about right for your lathe (HSS means High speed steel - and is nothing to do with how fast you use them  .  Or you can buy some silver steel rod and make your own tools.  HSS can be sharpened on an easy to purchace bench grinder - go for one with 6" wheels at least - and get a reputable make: http://www.warco.co.uk/  have been around for many years.

I just found an advert in Model Engineer for January 1969:

Portass lathes: 3 5/8" to 5 1/2" centres, from £43 to £350.  Come direct and secure personal service.  Stamp for lists please.

Charles Portass and Son

Buttermere works

Sheffield 8

Established 1889

[SnakeyJ]

Thanks Jim & Roger - very useful info on the metric thread cutting. I will do some hunting for the right 63 tooth wheel and avoid the less reputable sources.

Roger - you just stopped me in the nick of time! Points noted on not stripping these bearings. I shall source some Myford machine oil and work this through to try and flush any old grit/gunk out. Could I use a penetrating oil first to help dissolve out any residues?

Is there any published guide/table with gear reductions, tool angles and depths for different threads - or recommended reference book?

More pics to follow tonight of motor and its rating plate.

[coulthamst]

Hi Jake

Google  www.lathes.co.uk. Lots of stuff under "screwcutting"

Jim

[Bizibilder]

Get yourself a copy of this little book  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Screw-cutting-Workshop-Practice-Martin-Cleeve/dp/0852428383  it is the "bible" on screwcutting for the amateur (all the books in this series are exellent (usual disclaimer).  These two:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amateurs-Lathe-Lawrence-H-Sparey/dp/0852422881/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380480661&sr=1-1&keywords=the+amateurs+lathe

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Using-Small-Lathe-Leonard-Charlish/dp/1857611187/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380480705&sr=1-1&keywords=using+the+small+lathe

(you can get them elsewhere -  I just used Amazon 'cos its easy)  are both exellent, even though they were written over 60 years ago they still contain exellent advice.

As to oil?  I would flush out with the machine oil itself - it is, I believe, a form of hydraulic oil and is of very low viscosity (it's runny!) so it will get into all the nooks and corners.  There seem to be oil holes on the headstock bearings - these should really have oil cups added.  This will be a "total loss" oiling system that was common at the time of manufacture - the oil goes once through the bearings and then into the drip tray, very wasteful by todays standards.  http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Lubrication-Accessories  find "drip feed oilers - Brass" for the ones you need - you may have to make a little adapter for them.

[SnakeyJ]

Hi Jake

Google  www.lathes.co.uk. Lots of stuff under "screwcutting"

Jim

Thanks Jim - this is the site I found the original info on the Portass PD5 Lathe - great resource, I shall investigate further!

Get yourself a copy of this little book  http://www.amazon.co.uk/Screw-cutting-Workshop-Practice-Martin-Cleeve/dp/0852428383  it is the "bible" on screwcutting for the amateur (all the books in this series are exellent (usual disclaimer).  These two:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Amateurs-Lathe-Lawrence-H-Sparey/dp/0852422881/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380480661&sr=1-1&keywords=the+amateurs+lathe

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Using-Small-Lathe-Leonard-Charlish/dp/1857611187/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1380480705&sr=1-1&keywords=using+the+small+lathe

(you can get them elsewhere -  I just used Amazon 'cos its easy)  are both exellent, even though they were written over 60 years ago they still contain exellent advice.

As to oil?  I would flush out with the machine oil itself - it is, I believe, a form of hydraulic oil and is of very low viscosity (it's runny!) so it will get into all the nooks and corners.  There seem to be oil holes on the headstock bearings - these should really have oil cups added.  This will be a "total loss" oiling system that was common at the time of manufacture - the oil goes once through the bearings and then into the drip tray, very wasteful by todays standards.  http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Lubrication-Accessories  find "drip feed oilers - Brass" for the ones you need - you may have to make a little adapter for them.

Roger - I do seem to owe you an awful lot of thanks, firstly for the observatory, but latterly for your considerable assistance on this thread - I very much like the idea of the 60 year old lathe bible to accompany my almost 60 year old lathe and have ordered the first two books, the VG32 machine oil and drip feeders.     I shall have make up a little drip tray, but this should double up for cutting oil as well and collecting the swarf - simple but messy.

I've spent a fair bit of time cleaning up the lathe today and pretty happy with general condition - though it does show its age in a few places, it is certainly a solid piece of British engineering and Sheffield history which I will enjoy working with.    I do have a reasonable bench grinder so will have a go at making some cutting tools for the basic stuff, though suspect any thread cutting may require higher levels of precision      Will have to hunt around for spares and new parts as budgets look tight through Christmas, but possibly work might sponsor a few of the more expensive bits if I can engineer a few bits up for some of the jobs.

Thanks once again - Jake

[SnakeyJ]

Time for a few smutty pics of the old girl...

Here's the back of the lathe showing the motor mount and drive arrangements:

I'm starting to think this is probably the original electric motor - close up of the cover plate:

Perhaps more of a sturdy pony than the full stallion!

Brook Compton are still trading and making AC electric motors in Huddersfield, so perhaps Gryphon is the model or range name?

Here's the gearing at the head (usually covered by cast iron casing):

  

Just to the right of the big belt pulley is a steel shaft, which is held in the normal clockwise drive position.    Pulling it out changes reverses the spindle (slow reverse) - though this actually locks the spindle at the moment unless another bolt is released, not sure if this is a bit of a later cobble (see adjacent picture), though a small alignment mark at the can be seen to the right of the drive belt.

below the spindle gear is the tumble reverse (currently disengaged), pulling and shifting the lever up looks like forward - this looks incorrectly assembled to me and possibly there are bits missing (change wheels?).   Here's a slightly different angle of an assembled Portass PD5 from Lathes.co.uk:

On the swing arm, I think the double gear I have centred should swap out to the left hand (empty spigot), leaving the centre free for various sized change wheels.   I also seem to be diffy a collar on the end of the lead-screw shaft.   As there's no spring on the swing arm, I'm thinking that the change gear itself supports the arm in its engaged position.

Both of the drive belts look a little worse for wear, but have id marks on them - so I hope to source replacements without too much trouble.

The motor drive is a straight hinge tension that looks a doddle to swap out (and is the most badly worn):

The Gear Belt is also straightforward to relax and swap speed/pulleys - though unless I'm being really dim, it looks like both of the shafts need to be lifted to do this - so looks like disturbing the bearings is unavoidable:

Belt Refs:  Powertrain PCFB671, Masterparts MDB806HC (10mm V belts).

[Ibbo!]

very nice

plenty of toys here http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/

if I can move it I can have one  like this  http://www.lathes.co.uk/karger/page3.html

only the one I can have is dirty

Steve

[coulthamst]

Hi Jake

If the steel shaft you refer to "just to the right of the big pulley" is that with a ball end next to the pulley, then it is the back gear mechanism I was referring to. As shown in the picture you posted, the back gear is engaged (the gears are meshed) and if the shafts are locked, it means that the drive between the triple vee pulley and the large gear immediately left of the right hand bearing is still connected. The hexagon bolt head to the right of the register mark you noticed is what  you need to deal with. Some bolts here need just slackening, others need removal. Go carefully, removal of a  bolt that only requires slackening will result in the need to dismantle the entire drive mechanism to refit it!. If things still won't rotate after slackening the bolt and well and truly rocking the drive then the bolt will need to come out.

Back gears usually allow speeds of c20 - 60 rpm or thereabouts to be obtained for screw cutting or for turning larger diameters. The section of the "lathes" website on "how lathes work" deals with the subject more completely.

Jim.

[Bizibilder]

Brook Motors - 1904 to 1960 - so your "Gryphon" is likely to be the original.

As Jim says the back gear needs to be unlocked via the bolt in the Bull Wheel (the big gear on the main spindle of the lathe) - watch out there may be two bolts (at 180°) to undo!

You should be able to change the drive belt easily (the one to the lathe spindle from the countershaft).  There is a piece of steel strip going from the headstock to the countershaft.  This has a large green and red handwheel at the countershaft end.  Undo this and the whole motor/countershaft should lift allowing you to swap the belt to a different pulley.  It will be heavy to lift but in those days engineers had muscles!!

The tumbler reverse looks OK - the two little gears are idlers and are simply there to reverse the direction of the leadscrew.  Lever down is forward and lever up is reverse (ie cuts a left hand thread).  In your picture there are some changewheels missing - did you get any with the lathe?  If not then count the teeth of the gears you have - if they are all divisible by five you have a "Set in fives" and should have 20, 25, ......, 60, 65, 70 and 80 tooth wheels (also a 38 tooth for cutting 19tpi threads)  They may be a "Set in fours" where you will have 20 24 28 etc all the way to 72 teeth usually.

[SnakeyJ]

very nice

plenty of toys here http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/

if I can move it I can have one  like this  http://www.lathes.co.uk/karger/page3.html

only the one I can have is dirty

Steve

Steve,

The rgdtools site looks vast and extremely useful - think they may be receiving a significant chunk of my now meagre spending allowance

Re your prospective Lathe - what an absolute beauty, it looks an absolute beast of a machine and I find it's 50's modern lines irresistible.    You should certainly get it and I'll donate a box of rags to the cleaning effort, though may need a shed extension to accommodate

[SnakeyJ]

Brook Motors - 1904 to 1960 - so your "Gryphon" is likely to be the original.

As Jim says the back gear needs to be unlocked via the bolt in the Bull Wheel (the big gear on the main spindle of the lathe) - watch out there may be two bolts (at 180°) to undo!

You should be able to change the drive belt easily (the one to the lathe spindle from the countershaft).  There is a piece of steel strip going from the headstock to the countershaft.  This has a large green and red handwheel at the countershaft end.  Undo this and the whole motor/countershaft should lift allowing you to swap the belt to a different pulley.  It will be heavy to lift but in those days engineers had muscles!!

The tumbler reverse looks OK - the two little gears are idlers and are simply there to reverse the direction of the leadscrew.  Lever down is forward and lever up is reverse (ie cuts a left hand thread).  In your picture there are some changewheels missing - did you get any with the lathe?  If not then count the teeth of the gears you have - if they are all divisible by five you have a "Set in fives" and should have 20, 25, ......, 60, 65, 70 and 80 tooth wheels (also a 38 tooth for cutting 19tpi threads)  They may be a "Set in fours" where you will have 20 24 28 etc all the way to 72 teeth usually.

Thanks again Roger - really pleased on the motor, very nice its original and appears to be in good working order.    It seems these were quite a common unit in there day and it should be possible to source spares as needed, though even in the worst case it would be quite simple to replace if needed (though I shall try and keep it as original).

I've found the adjustment for both of the V Belts and changing speeds is simple and quick - my ageing muscles coped without resorting to a jemmy bar!    It was the belt replacement I was unsure of - to my eye it looks like you will have to release the counter shaft, back gear shaft and spindle to fit a new belt.    The old belt just needs a quick snip to remove.   Does this sound correct or have I missed something more obvious?

According to the lathes.co.uk page on this model the standard set of change wheels were in multiples of 5 teeth and comprised; two 20t, and one each of: 25t, 30t, 35t, 40t, 45t, 50t, 55t, 60t and 65t.    Though I believe Mr Portass was quite flexible and offered the option to buy without to save a few shillings and there was even an option to buy it without the cast gear guard/cover - unbelievable in this day and age and still quite shocking 50 yrs ago, what were they thinking?   I think it's unlikely that this one was brought without change wheels as it has quite a few of the optional extras, micrometer engraved top and cross slide controls, guard and looks like it may have had a thread dial indicator fitted to the right of the apron.    More likely they were either passed on separately at some point or are still languishing in a shed long forgotten - I will have to look out the address and see if the original owner is still around to check this out.

All may not be lost as it seems that the Myford change wheels may be the same pitch and bore - though I have the Verniers in front to take some measurements and confirm.    I'll also have a quick check to see if there is an unseen hole for a shaft concealed behind the banjo - as I'm struggling to match the picture of the gear arrangement on my lathe with the fully equipped change wheel drive in the previously posted photos.    Now I have the motor rpm I should be able to work out the belt drive reductions and get a fair idea of the spindle speeds.

Looking forward to my books arriving in a day or so and can hopefully scrounge up some bits of aluminium bar and HSS tool blanks to start playing this weekend.

[SnakeyJ]

Drive Speeds:

Motor 1420 RPM @ 0.3HP to counter shaft 6:1 reduction.

Counter Shaft 237 RPM @ 1.8HP less loss

V Drive Pos A - 1:1.75 - 415 RPM @ Spindle

V Drive Pos B - 1:1 - 237 RPM @ Spindle

V Drive Pos C - 1.75:1 - 135 RPM @ Spindle

Gears Wheels:

The change gear wheels are machined cast iron, with a keyed bore of 5/8". Thickness at the teeth is 0.445" (15/32" ish), the central boss is a little thicker at 0.53" (17/32" ish). Difficult to get an accurate depth on the thread, but I reckon around 0.14" (9/64" ish).

On a 30T wheel I have the outer diameter at 2.03", giving a circumference of 6.38", or a tooth a distance of approx 0.21" (7/32" is about 0.22").

If I ignore the gears fitted to the spindle and tumble reverse, I have one 20T, one 30T and one 45T mounted to the 8 tpi leadscrew, or 8 change wheels short of the standard set!  Will have to look up if I can turn anything useful with these three for practice.

I've discovered that the change wheels are fitted to 3 movable shafts, which can be positioned within two slots cut in the banjo. Once the desired gearing is achieved there is a bolt to the left hand side of the case that allows the banjo to be rotated and secured to engage with the tumble gear output.

I'm a little wiser, but struggling with digital caliper to fractional imperial conversion - but hopefully I can use some of this info tomorrow to check if the Myford ML7 change wheels are interchangeable.

[skybadger]

It looks to me to be completely interchangable with the Myford gearing. The photo could be my lathe. I recomgmend a 127 tooth final drive gear to achieve metric threads.

[SnakeyJ]

It looks to me to be completely interchangable with the Myford gearing. The photo could be my lathe. I recomgmend a 127 tooth final drive gear to achieve metric threads.

Thanks Mike - They do look identical, and to be honest this lathe appears to be almost a straight rip of the ML7!    So far I can find lots of pictures of the Myford change wheels, but no hard details on dimensions/pitch.   Though as they are not too expensive, I'll probably buy one and do a straight comparison.

The 127 tooth is going to be a beast, using the measurements from my 30T gear I calculate around 8 5/8" diameter!   Guessing this may be too big to sit on the end of the lead screw and certainly not with the guard on.    Perhaps this could fit in somewhere in the middle of the gear chain, keyed/paired with a smaller gear?    From the little I've read thus far though it seems like the 63T is probably going to be close enough for the coarser metric threads, though I shall wait for "Screw cutting in the Lathe" book to arrive before getting too carried away with buying bits.

So much to learn at this stage - just about to see if I can do anything as a practice run using the three change gears I have (45T, 30T and 20T)!

[Bizibilder]

The belt replacement is not such a problem (you are right that you would have to remove the main spindle and bearings) because you can buy these: http://www.fennerdrives.com/nutlink/ (lots of Model Engineering suppliers sell them) and you don't have to dismantle anything.  I don't think the lathe is a rip off of Myfords products - Myfords have always been very protective of their design copyrights and patents!  That's the trouble with Lathes is they all look roughly the same!

A 127 wheel won't fit and will be too big (if you use the same 20dp gears). Thats why the slightly different gear selections incorporating the 63 tooth wheel have been devised.  A 127 tooth wheel gives you a precise conversion, the 63 tooth is "better" than the overall errors you will get with an amateur machine (if you see what I mean).  If you really want to you can machine a perfect micrometer screw on your lathe but you will have to buy some pretty fancy change wheels to eliminate all the errors (which will mainly come from the leadscrew that is itself built to "tolerences" and will have a pitch error that may or may not repeat along its length)!!

[SnakeyJ]

I've used Fenner belts before for my boat, which were really good - the Nutlink ones look very convenient but are quite expensive, though a 5m pack will probably give me a three complete changes.    Luckily its only the motor belt that looks bad at present and this is a straight swap - I'll hold off with the gear belt which does not look too worn and should last a bit.

Agree on the 127 being too big and issues with tolerances and looking at the ML7 guides 63T is going to take you very close - apart from the imperfections in the lead screw and gear chain, I suspect my practical skills will need much honing before I consider anything exceeding this level of precision.

I got the toolsteel, some 3/16 and 1/8 3" HSS tools, machine oil and cups from rdgtools - which I hope will arrive tomorrow.   With luck the books will also arrive from Amazon.   My only problem now is sourcing some small bits of scrap mild steel and aluminium stock to play with.   Two of the local suppliers seem to have closed recently and two local fabricators are proving impossible to catch in (including the chap who's cutting the parts for my pier).      I've a few little bits of copper, brass and bronze bar but would rather hang on to these - so may have to resort to a little skip rummaging to find some suitable bits for conversion to swarf!

[SnakeyJ]

Everything arrived in the post today, including excellent next day service from RGDtools, for the very reasonable P&P surcharge of £ 6.95 to the Isle of Wight.    I even brought my bench grinder back from work, but no work this evening as read first three chapters of the Amateur Lathe in the bath - extremely useful recommendation from Mr Bizibuilder and I enjoyed the the style of prose, though reading glasses essential for the small typeface.     My lathe actually looks quite up to date compared to some of the example plates     One tip on getting the lathe setup looks to be shimming the base so that the ways are true - the base mine is on looks rather flimsy, so will need to find some decent timber

Will also need to make some adapters for the oil cups from female1/8" BSP to 13/64" tube for the oil drip cups - think this could be my first bit of machining!