Portass Lathe - Finally at home!

[RLWP]

Being fair to Myford the ML and Speed 10 should be a decent smaller lathe. These use a dovetail bed which has it's own problems but is better than beds formed by 2 oblong bars etc providing it's not worn too much. 

John

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Lathe wars...

My Raglan has oblong slideways, both are separate bars hardened and ground, bolted to the base. No wear in sixty odd years of life

To be honest, there's a lot of small details that make a good lathe or a bad one. The Boxford ME10A I had access to wasn't as capable as my current ancient Raglan LittleJohn. I was taking 0.060" cuts off a 4" diameter piece of En3B with it yesterday. It surprised me that it could

It's a bit like telescopes really

Richard

[RLWP]

I forgot to say - I'm glad I have found some other machinists on here. I was starting to feel out of place

Richard

[Ajohn]

LOL - I mentioned the Raglan as a proper machine with plain bar slideways and then edited it out - I think. Much better design than the 7's and bigger. I had one but alas rust in the garage put me off it and I moved into the house and it couldn't go with me. What happened to Raglan - bought up by Myford and pole axed. Interesting lath. The bed slides are bolted to the bed, carefully set up and then dowelled in place. Mine did have a bit of wear on the side of them. I had them reground very lightly and the people who did it clocked up the inside the tail stock runs on and took an incredibly light cut on the outside. They wondered why I had it done as the cut was so light so I pointed out that I didn't have a cylindrical grinder. I'm a bit like that with lathes. They also ground up shims for me to set the saddle up. I've also shimmed up a Myford saddle - it's a painful long winded job to get it as it should be.

The first serious job I did on my Raglan was after I found that one of the sides of the variable speed pulley was cracked and had a bit missing so I made another one in 2 parts. plate for the big dia and bar for the other.

Maybe the ML10 wasn't set up well or too worn. Some have under powered motors off washing machines etc fitted. The problem with little machines like that is that they have to have everything set fairly tightly so that slides offer a bit of resistance. I have come across people who are happy with them and do accurate work but size is limited. Even a Boxford benefits from well adjusted slides. It would have no problem taking 1/16 cuts of mild steel bar. The only problem I have is making m2 thumb screws and silly things like that. The thread dia has to be cut in one go otherwise if more than a thou or so is taken off the dam things they bend even in stainless.

I also tried a Chines lathe - it turned more of a taper than I am prepared to put up with and went to some one who mostly shortened bolts. Then I looked at a lot of them. All sorts of problems. One interesting one is not being able to turn up to a centre in the end of the work without using a morse taper extension in the tail stock. It makes the centre distance they quote bigger than it really is. Accuracy problems are sometimes put down to the headstock bearings they fit. I reckon it's more to do with how they are made. Poor quality cast iron as well. Older lathes tend to be a lot better in that respect but a lot of this could be down to weight. Pass really forking out for one put me off. I warned a friend at work not to buy one of the small mini lathes - he did and later told me he thought it was really intended to turn plastic. Might be technique. I don't know. Adds for them sometimes say so many microns run out on the head stock - pretty useless really as it doesn't give any idea how much taper parts will have. Real lathes have usually been specified properly.

John

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[SnakeyJ]

Thanks John, some really useful and interesting information in your posts.    Having just moved house, I've had to disassemble and rebuild the portass lathe in it's new location and now just need to go through the centring and alignment process now it's had a chance to settle back down.

No real fine work to do, but I would like to turn up a new pier head from aluminium, but will need to source a new chuck to hold the 100mm billet (as my existing chucks do not have external jaws).     I was thinking of getting a cast iron base plate from RDGTools - http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/100MM-Diameter-Blank-Unfinished-Cast-Backplate-7879876.html and 100mm three jaw rear load chuck http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/125MM-REAR-LOAD-3-JAW-CHUCK-HBM-77828.html.    Though will keep an eye out on ebay for a better quality s/h chuck.

Quite daunted by the thought of trying to cut the internal thread for the headstock (9 tpi x 1.122"), though sure I can find something to practice on first!

[Ajohn]

If you are going to make a back plate it's best to make a dummy spindle first. Most lathes have a thread and a register = a short  parallel section that actually locates the chuck. It's important to get the register right if you can. A dummy spindle head can help a lot with that also ensure that the thread will fit ok. The easy way to do that is to bore close to size and then reduce the size of the cut. If for instance you reduce to 0.0005 and you do this till the dummy spindle head goes in you know you have a fit to 0.001. The biggest problem people have boring is not realising that the work moves so will often take another cut if it's run through again at the same setting. It's important to run them out if you can. Also to set the tool slightly above centre in case it bends. If it's on centre the tool will dig in if it bends. Slightly is say 0.010 to 0.005. Depends how much it bends. You might have problems due to worn head stock bearings. That can make it impossible to take good light cuts and the machine will work a lot better with heavier cuts as they take out the play. Best option then is a micrometer and telescopic gauges - a vernier wont really measure close enough for this sort of thing especially internally. The telescopic gauge needs to be a firm fit in the bore when you rock it to take a measurement. When turning OD's it's best to set the tool slightly below centre for the same reason and again running the same cut might remove more metal. Usually down to head stock bearings or the work bending.

The easiest way to cut what are really big threads for the size of lathe is to set the compound slide over at 1/2 the thread angle and set the cut with that. Then the lathe is only cutting one side of the thread so the load is reduced. The cross slide can be zero'd and used to wind out and reset to zero again for the next cut. Remember to take out play in the cross slide screw by always winding into the cut direction from far enough away to remove play in it.  I usually use a 55 degree tool and set the angle slightly less so that one side is scraped a little and the other cut but it's easier really to forget that. You will need to do the sums using a single point tool as they don't cut a round topped thread so the o/d needs to be reduced and the total depth of cut worked out to get the flanks of the thread correct.

You can also cut with chasers especially the backing plate itself as they can be run straight through and also the dummy spindle too really but you might find disengaging and winding out to clear the register frightening. Same as a single point tool really. That will give the correct form without any messing about and can still be fed in the same way. There are plenty of used 9 tpi whit chasers on ebay. Machine types are best but the hand ones can be used as well more especially externally.

Lastly your thread form is 1 1/8 in dia whit. It's slightly undersized on the lathe to clear a perfect one in the things fitted to it. That's how accurate real lathes are made. You might find a tap but even just sizing a thread that has been cut a few thou short takes a lot of effort at that size. It's an option some use. I'd guess in a very rigidly fitted vice and bench. It might be possible to very lightly clean a thread up in the lathe with one.

Before buying of RG I would see what ArcEuro have as well. Might be cheaper. They also have a tendency to sell good stuff. There is also another ebayer with a good reputation harry something or the other. Rotagrip may be able to sell you external jaws for your chuck. Just tell them the make and size and see what the say. They may offer soft jaws. I've had to spend a couple of hours with a file and stone to get them to fit properly so ask if there is any doubt about fitting. Chances are that the chuck on your lathe is better quality than the cheaper ones.

I mostly use HSS tools I grind myself but also of late some carbide tooling from these people

http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/

I would advise the smaller triangular tips. They will be recommended for finishing - stainless etc and work well on smaller lathes. Some on on the Schaublin yahoo group suggested that I should try them. They work well on most materials. Ebay bargains can be a mixed bunch. I suspect some have come off cnc machines just before they are worn out. That's what they do with production machines - stop using them just before the wear out.

HSS tool bits can be hand ground even on a 6in grinder but only really with better wheels than they usually come with. Axminster do some white aluminium oxide grinding wheels that work rather well on HSS. The cut slow and cool without clogging quickly. They also do a hammer head dresser which makes dressing the wheel easy when it needs it. They should be polished with a slip stone afterwards and sharpened when in use from time to time too. Good slip stones are hard to find now so people use diamond sticks etc. Braised tip carbide tools can be reground  using a green grit wheel but I feel that needs an 8in grinder.

Some people lap worn beds if they have one and it proves to be a problem. It's important to know where it is worn. That can be done with a decent length straight edge and a 0.0005in feeler gauge reasonably well. Main problem is that the affordable straight edges are usually straight to 0.001in per foot so it's important to make sure that isn't making an area that is ok look worn. Right up at the tail stock end beds usually have no wear at all so that area can be checked.

My father mentioned that in days of old when and knights were bold and plain bearing lathes and high accuracy lathe work was common people made things to fit on the bed so that new sets could be rebored from the bed or the headstock by hand to finally size them. As only thous are being removed turning by them by hand is easy. Actually I came across a lathe at work that had twin bearings so that this could be done using a normal boring tool. The outer bearings were usually locked and just had to be unclamped to allow them to rotate. These days accurate work usually finishes up on a grinder and lathes are seen as things that struggle to work to better than say 0.010in.

Then comes lubrication. Small bottles of slideway lubricant can be bought of ebay- wonderful stuff, not much is needed. Stays there and doesn't evaporate etc as much as other oils. I understand that people who have plain bearing lathes lubricate them with some grade of hydraulic fluid - a web search should sort that out. I bought 5ltrs of cutting oil from Morris Lubricants a long time ago and sometimes smear it on work before a cut with a kiddies paste brush from a pound shop. It can really help with finish.

Warding files are useful on a lathe - or any other type at times but make sure they have a handle especially needle files as a slip might send the end through the palm of your hand. Since Stubbs stopped making them there is a lot of junk about however Axminster sell Swiss Vallorbe - the miniature file set are warding files and well worth the money as are the bigger hand files. This is how some produce some amazing work on lathes with problems along with a strip of emery cloth on them. With a bit of practice it's easy to remove the taper some lathes produce when it should be parallel and also improve the finish if needed and even still get very precise sizes.

Astronomer machinists might have problems boring thin walled tubing because vibrations set in and really wreck the finish. The finish will look like the noise sounds. The answer is to slow the machine right down and use the automatic feed. Maybe even using the back gear to get it right down. Ok a single cut might take 10min but if needed it's the only certain way and only needed for the last few cuts.

Some people get rather tied up with cutting speed tables. These are really aimed at maximising metal removal rates with reasonable tool life. There is no harm working at slower speeds. The things to watch for are say blue swarf coming off a steel that will harden - it probably will as you cut it making work harder than it need be. Aluminium often stick to tools because friction is causing it to melt. The finest feed rates a lathe has might not give the best finish. The feed rate really needs to be fine compared with the rad on the end of the tool if there is one - this is why the small triangular tips work well - they have a small rad. Big rads use up more horsepower taking the cut, more of that means more heat and metal tearing and distortion as it comes off so they aren't really a good idea on any lathe. There is a technique of old called fine turning that's a bit different. Huge rad, tool well over centre with a lot of front clearance ground on it. Really it's more like using a broad ended scraper and goes back to pure hand metal turning days.  An interesting thing to try and may work well if the lathe is up to it.

 I had better book mark this post as I ain't typing that lot again. So sorry if I have made some really weird typo's. I do sometimes.

John

-

[SnakeyJ]

If you are going to make a back plate it's best to make a dummy spindle first. Most lathes have a thread and a register = a short  parallel section that actually locates the chuck. It's important to get the register right if you can. A dummy spindle head can help a lot with that also ensure that the thread will fit ok. The easy way to do that is to bore close to size and then reduce the size of the cut. If for instance you reduce to 0.0005 and you do this till the dummy spindle head goes in you know you have a fit to 0.001. The biggest problem people have boring is not realising that the work moves so will often take another cut if it's run through again at the same setting. It's important to run them out if you can. Also to set the tool slightly above centre in case it bends. If it's on centre the tool will dig in if it bends. Slightly is say 0.010 to 0.005. Depends how much it bends. You might have problems due to worn head stock bearings. That can make it impossible to take good light cuts and the machine will work a lot better with heavier cuts as they take out the play. Best option then is a micrometer and telescopic gauges - a vernier wont really measure close enough for this sort of thing especially internally. The telescopic gauge needs to be a firm fit in the bore when you rock it to take a measurement. When turning OD's it's best to set the tool slightly below centre for the same reason and again running the same cut might remove more metal. Usually down to head stock bearings or the work bending.

The easiest way to cut what are really big threads for the size of lathe is to set the compound slide over at 1/2 the thread angle and set the cut with that. Then the lathe is only cutting one side of the thread so the load is reduced. The cross slide can be zero'd and used to wind out and reset to zero again for the next cut. Remember to take out play in the cross slide screw by always winding into the cut direction from far enough away to remove play in it.  I usually use a 55 degree tool and set the angle slightly less so that one side is scraped a little and the other cut but it's easier really to forget that. You will need to do the sums using a single point tool as they don't cut a round topped thread so the o/d needs to be reduced and the total depth of cut worked out to get the flanks of the thread correct.

You can also cut with chasers especially the backing plate itself as they can be run straight through and also the dummy spindle too really but you might find disengaging and winding out to clear the register frightening. Same as a single point tool really. That will give the correct form without any messing about and can still be fed in the same way. There are plenty of used 9 tpi whit chasers on ebay. Machine types are best but the hand ones can be used as well more especially externally.

Lastly your thread form is 1 1/8 in dia whit. It's slightly undersized on the lathe to clear a perfect one in the things fitted to it. That's how accurate real lathes are made. You might find a tap but even just sizing a thread that has been cut a few thou short takes a lot of effort at that size. It's an option some use. I'd guess in a very rigidly fitted vice and bench. It might be possible to very lightly clean a thread up in the lathe with one.

Before buying of RG I would see what ArcEuro have as well. Might be cheaper. They also have a tendency to sell good stuff. There is also another ebayer with a good reputation harry something or the other. Rotagrip may be able to sell you external jaws for your chuck. Just tell them the make and size and see what the say. They may offer soft jaws. I've had to spend a couple of hours with a file and stone to get them to fit properly so ask if there is any doubt about fitting. Chances are that the chuck on your lathe is better quality than the cheaper ones.

I mostly use HSS tools I grind myself but also of late some carbide tooling from these people

http://www.shop-apt.co.uk/

I would advise the smaller triangular tips. They will be recommended for finishing - stainless etc and work well on smaller lathes. Some on on the Schaublin yahoo group suggested that I should try them. They work well on most materials. Ebay bargains can be a mixed bunch. I suspect some have come off cnc machines just before they are worn out. That's what they do with production machines - stop using them just before the wear out.

HSS tool bits can be hand ground even on a 6in grinder but only really with better wheels than they usually come with. Axminster do some white aluminium oxide grinding wheels that work rather well on HSS. The cut slow and cool without clogging quickly. They also do a hammer head dresser which makes dressing the wheel easy when it needs it. They should be polished with a slip stone afterwards and sharpened when in use from time to time too. Good slip stones are hard to find now so people use diamond sticks etc. Braised tip carbide tools can be reground  using a green grit wheel but I feel that needs an 8in grinder.

Some people lap worn beds if they have one and it proves to be a problem. It's important to know where it is worn. That can be done with a decent length straight edge and a 0.0005in feeler gauge reasonably well. Main problem is that the affordable straight edges are usually straight to 0.001in per foot so it's important to make sure that isn't making an area that is ok look worn. Right up at the tail stock end beds usually have no wear at all so that area can be checked.

My father mentioned that in days of old when and knights were bold and plain bearing lathes and high accuracy lathe work was common people made things to fit on the bed so that new sets could be rebored from the bed or the headstock by hand to finally size them. As only thous are being removed turning by them by hand is easy. Actually I came across a lathe at work that had twin bearings so that this could be done using a normal boring tool. The outer bearings were usually locked and just had to be unclamped to allow them to rotate. These days accurate work usually finishes up on a grinder and lathes are seen as things that struggle to work to better than say 0.010in.

Then comes lubrication. Small bottles of slideway lubricant can be bought of ebay- wonderful stuff, not much is needed. Stays there and doesn't evaporate etc as much as other oils. I understand that people who have plain bearing lathes lubricate them with some grade of hydraulic fluid - a web search should sort that out. I bought 5ltrs of cutting oil from Morris Lubricants a long time ago and sometimes smear it on work before a cut with a kiddies paste brush from a pound shop. It can really help with finish.

Warding files are useful on a lathe - or any other type at times but make sure they have a handle especially needle files as a slip might send the end through the palm of your hand. Since Stubbs stopped making them there is a lot of junk about however Axminster sell Swiss Vallorbe - the miniature file set are warding files and well worth the money as are the bigger hand files. This is how some produce some amazing work on lathes with problems along with a strip of emery cloth on them. With a bit of practice it's easy to remove the taper some lathes produce when it should be parallel and also improve the finish if needed and even still get very precise sizes.

Astronomer machinists might have problems boring thin walled tubing because vibrations set in and really wreck the finish. The finish will look like the noise sounds. The answer is to slow the machine right down and use the automatic feed. Maybe even using the back gear to get it right down. Ok a single cut might take 10min but if needed it's the only certain way and only needed for the last few cuts.

Some people get rather tied up with cutting speed tables. These are really aimed at maximising metal removal rates with reasonable tool life. There is no harm working at slower speeds. The things to watch for are say blue swarf coming off a steel that will harden - it probably will as you cut it making work harder than it need be. Aluminium often stick to tools because friction is causing it to melt. The finest feed rates a lathe has might not give the best finish. The feed rate really needs to be fine compared with the rad on the end of the tool if there is one - this is why the small triangular tips work well - they have a small rad. Big rads use up more horsepower taking the cut, more of that means more heat and metal tearing and distortion as it comes off so they aren't really a good idea on any lathe. There is a technique of old called fine turning that's a bit different. Huge rad, tool well over centre with a lot of front clearance ground on it. Really it's more like using a broad ended scraper and goes back to pure hand metal turning days.  An interesting thing to try and may work well if the lathe is up to it.

 I had better book mark this post as I ain't typing that lot again. So sorry if I have made some really weird typo's. I do sometimes.

John

-

John, thanks for such a detailed response and a lot of sound advice.   Making the dummy spindle up sounds a very good idea and will give me the chance to get the right ratios on the lead screw and be able to properly see what I'm doing first.    Working down to such a fine tolerance, below 1/1000th,will really test me and the lathe (and I have a lot more faith in the lathe), but I will need to invest in a dial indicator micrometer, a decent straight edge and a revolving centre.   A thread dial indicator would also be useful (I believe the Myford ML7 one will work with the 8 tpi leadscrew) - Always more tools to get!

[Ajohn]

2nd hand stuff like micrometers off ebay are usually ok but for a 1:2n you ideally need a setting guage for it. Just pick one that looks decent with nice clear markings - if they are faded it probably means it's been cleaned up. You could make the dummy spindle out of a few inches of free cutting mild steel, if you scrap one end turn it round and try again on the other. It's not rocket science.

If you google on things like screw cutting you will probably find clearer explanations than I can write on here. If you have an 8tpi lead screw you can engage screw cutting for 8 tpi anywhere it will go in but do remember to start 1/2 in or so from the end of the work to take out play. The chasers are a good idea too really and wont cost much. There is a way of screw cutting without an indicator. I've never needed to do it but if you google screw cutting no indicator something some where is likely to come up.

Don't mess with refurbing a lathe unless you are certain you are doing the right thing - it's easy to make things worse. I have a feeling my straight edge came of amazon but why not just turn and see what happens.

Myford, Boxford, Viceroy and many other smaller lathes use 8 tpi lead screws.  I suspect this man will make you a screw cutting indicator. To be honest though I find the bulk of my screw cutting is done with taps and dies

http://www.latheparts.co.uk/

I've heard that he is hard to get hold of especially on the phone. He's fairly famous actually and his prices are remarkable really even for things like face plates.

John

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[RLWP]

Before you go mad ordering stuff - check that a 4" bar will fit your lathe. It might be a bit of a challenge

And, if your existing chuck has no external jaws, have you checked to see if they are available? What make is it?

If they are  not available, it might be easier - no, will be easier - to fit a new chuck to the backplate of the one you already have. Setting to to screwcut as a first job on a lathe you haven't used much sounds very ambitious

Richard

[RLWP]

Another option. There's a Portass Dreadnought for sale on Ebay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portass-Dreadnought-Metal-Turning-Lathe-on-stand-with-extras-/121634829808?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c520035f0

It has several backplates and accessories with it. Why not buy that, select the accessories you want from both lathes then sell the rest on. I have picked up changewheels and chucks for my lathe that way and still passed on a well equipped lathe.

Richard

[SnakeyJ]

Before you go mad ordering stuff - check that a 4" bar will fit your lathe. It might be a bit of a challenge

And, if your existing chuck has no external jaws, have you checked to see if they are available? What make is it?

If they are  not available, it might be easier - no, will be easier - to fit a new chuck to the backplate of the one you already have. Setting to to screwcut as a first job on a lathe you haven't used much sounds very ambitious

Richard

Good thoughts Richard - the centre height on the PD5 is 3 5/8" (92mm), and there's a gap in the bed below the headstock to accommodate a larger diameter chuck (or protruding chuck jaws), so I think the 100mm diameter will fit with good clearance.    I belief the three jaw scroll chuck is original, so sourcing jaw blanks is probably going to be difficult, though I will check the dimensions and have a look around.

I can re-use one of the two existing back plates I have, though don't want to spoil it such that it no longer fits the original chuck.

Another option. There's a Portass Dreadnought for sale on Ebay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portass-Dreadnought-Metal-Turning-Lathe-on-stand-with-extras-/121634829808?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c520035f0

It has several backplates and accessories with it. Why not buy that, select the accessories you want from both lathes then sell the rest on. I have picked up changewheels and chucks for my lathe that way and still passed on a well equipped lathe.

Richard

I had looked at this and given some consideration to this, some of the bits would be quite handy particularly the change wheels,  plates and the three jaw chuck is fitted with external jaws (it looks like the internal ones are in the grey bucket of bits).   I'll keep an eye on this and see how it goes on ebay, though might need to sell something if I want to keep the obsy build on track!

Thanks for having a look and passing this on.

[RLWP]

It's the clearance over the carriage that will be the issue if the blank is of any length.

Some photos of the chuck might help you sort out what you have

Richard

[SnakeyJ]

It's the clearance over the carriage that will be the issue if the blank is of any length.

Some photos of the chuck might help you sort out what you have

Richard

Cheers Richard - the blank I'm working on is 4" diameter by 2" long, for the pier head I just need to bore out 60mm diameter and face off both ends - not too worried about reducing the outside diameter.   I will then use a bench drill to drill out and countersink mounting holes and a blind hole for the az adjustment peg.    Doesn't need to be too pretty!

[RLWP]

One of my least favourite jobs - making big holes in large lumps of metal. I have a couple of those on the go at the moment.

At least your blank is fairly short, so you won't be working with long boring tools

Richard

[SnakeyJ]

Some photos of the chuck might help you sort out what you have

Richard

Richard,

I believe the lathes originally shipped with Burnerd chucks, I'll take some more photos tonight, but at the moment this is the pre clean up shot of the 4" three jaw scroll chuck from my gallery (not much by way of identifiable marks).   It's not in great condition as one of the jaws has a missing scroll tooth and there is a slight damage to the scroll lead.     There is also a 100mm ring chuck, but I have not stripped this down and had a close look at this yet.   Neither look particularly clever.

[RLWP]

A missing tooth is a nuisance, damage to the scroll lead is very common. I'm not sure I have ever seen a  chuck without it

Give it a clean and see what you find. I have a Pratt Burnard and also a Pratt chuck here f you want to compare measurements

I think I have some jaws that don't belong to any of my chucks too

Richard

[Ajohn]

One of my least favourite jobs - making big holes in large lumps of metal. I have a couple of those on the go at the moment.

At least your blank is fairly short, so you won't be working with long boring tools

Richard

 I probably didn't mention the joys of owning a set of blacksmith drills - they will open holes out to an inch used in sensible stages.

If you have a four jaw the jaws will be reversable - they also grip parts a lot more rigidly than a 3 jaw but need the work centring in them.

Seeing the money pit comment - I agree. It always pays to buy lathes with as much gear as possible. I've been lucky in that respect but still keep buying things from time to time.

Seeing the earlier photo's of a wonderful bench - Eventually it all becomes a problem for some. This is what I have to put up with 1/2 way through a tidy up

It's even worse at the moment - another tidy up, not enough space etc and I want to do some work. The WD40 dropped there by my son - clutter from others is also a problem at times.

John

-

[SnakeyJ]

Seeing the earlier photo's of a wonderful bench - Eventually it all becomes a problem for some. This is what I have to put up with 1/2 way through a tidy up

It's even worse at the moment - another tidy up, not enough space etc and I want to do some work. The WD40 dropped there by my son - clutter from others is also a problem at times.

-

It's easy to be tidy when you have very few tools!   That's a very neat and well equipped looking setup and the milling machine looks extremely useful.   No doubt a fair bit of money has been wisely invested over the years  Not so sure on the electrics - is that a kill switch to the right of the lathe bed?

[Ajohn]

I have some stuff knocking about too that was going on ebay but if any of it helps --

Finding the maker on a chuck sometimes needs side light and even a magnifying glass.

Measure the spindle nose up completely. You might be lucky.

One thing to note is the chuck key - it looks like an older forged one. They weld the ends on the newer ones and they snap off even for me.

John

-

[Ajohn]

It's easy to be tidy when you have very few tools!   That's a very neat and well equipped looking setup and the milling machine looks extremely useful.   No doubt a fair bit of money has been wisely invested over the years  Not so sure on the electrics - is that a kill switch to the right of the lathe bed?

 Afraid it is the kill switch -  I can grab it as I fall over and turn the lathe off. It's fitted with an inverter now but currently that's dangling on wires as I want to reposition it. I may fit an emergency stop at the same time.

I thought that the miller might interest some. There is a small Chinese one with a rather narrow bed and limited travel (75mm or so) that way that isn't too bad but they may have widened it. I switched to a Dore Westbury. Made by model engineers from castings but I am not sure how much was pre made for them. I've come across several people who are happy with them. 2 morse with a myford spindle nose so the spindle is pretty rigid. All the 2 morse means really is the need for a set of 2 morse draw bar collets. It has a 14x7in table and can machine all over it. I bought it off some one who seemed to think it was a load of rubbish - demo'd end milling with a blunt slot drill with the work in a totally inadequate vice and as usual slides set way too loose for a small machine.  Looked ok to me and it came with a small rotary table and dividing head made by the same person, rather well actually so I went for it. The rotary table had a bit of a problem as some things do that are made from castings - too thin and warped slightly so had to be re machined a bit. The head can be tilted - bit of a problem setting it square to the table afterwards. I rigged up a jack screw to set it up and have left it like that. I have a pillar drill upstairs so don't use it much for that but the head can be moved up and down. Have to laugh some one on another forum saw the shot and said I am sad to tell you it's a Mk1 - as if I cared. Actually I would find the typical spring ram return pillar drills and the MkII have a pain for milling.

The lathe came of some one who was giving up via ebay with a lot of tooling. It's well equiped so I was prepared to offer his reserve which was surprisingly low really all things considered. Boxfords seem to have gone up some what now. They are a well designed lathe copied from southbend. My father was a metal removal expert at a large company and even he rated them for what they are. He wanted me to have a CVA - if only I could especially fully equipped. I have used one. They are unbelievable for that size of machine but probably weigh well over a tonne as small as they are. What I did is emailed the seller and asked him to turn 6in of bar and tell me how much taper there was. Couple of thou which I could live with. Turned out that the bearings needed a bit of adjustment and his bar was probably bending.

I have made my mistakes even though I should know what I am doing. A peatol initially. Amazingly accurate and I really mean that until the head bends. A Unimat - the dog clutch on the lead screw has problems even after just 1/2 hr or screw cutting. The next owner manage to crack the tool post casting while tightening the bolts on a tool. A myford ML7 and I really should have spotted this - the belt to the head way to tight to keep the spindle in place as the bearings were shot. I didn't realise how bad the beds can be and it was hardened - difficult to fix. Kept this due to the problems and bought a heft Chinese machine. Finish not bad but basically very poorly aligned and impossible to fix. Found a super 7 head and fitted it to the ML7, sold to a friend for a song really mostly sorted out telling him to send it to Myford for a bed regrind and saddle fit. Remains like that unused. I should have sold the bits. I've now had the boxford for a long time. Must be about 12 years at least now.

The 1st larger lathe was the Raglan. Fine after a bit of work but then came the rust problem. The best garage is an attached one really - a bit of heat.

Madness - as I make odd bits for microscopes at times I would like a small high speed lathe - had the idea of modifying an ML10 for 4,000 rpm. That is kicking around and the need for that has more or less disappeared.  I also have an early German clock makers lathe in pretty good order really and should have just got on with that but screw cutting would be nice. One of the problems with having ideas. When I bought that I heard one of the guys there, private sellers say I would love to see his face when he tries to part off with it. Bearing problems again. Lots of old expensive swiss and german gear about probably hardly used if at all - too tidy. I've found real machine tool sellers can be more honest than others but they seldom have things suitable for home use - like my Raglan. They did say that they didn't usually sound like that - cracked variable speed pulley. Others though including these types will sell people a load of rubbish. Some sellers will deliberately fit a useless tool in order to give people the impression that they will be able to do better.  A worry with the miller but he clearly had no real idea what he was doing. Some sellers don't.

One "gent" on here might feel that all of this is not relevant but a bit of not all that uncommon experience can help others avoid similar mistakes. It's a bit of a mine field really.

LOL I even bought a little Schaublin at an auction at a large factory that was closing down. Another mistake really as the bearing were totally shot and nigh on impossible for me to repair. I even played around with it doing some things that I knew couldn't be done that way to put others of biding. Couldn't power it up but would still have bought it. I sold all of the parts with a staggering profit. Even the head very cheaply to some one who fancied having ago at making new bearings on a bigger Schaublin.

John

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[SnakeyJ]

Ebay's has quite a lot of Portass bits at the moment, though the prices are a little keen in comparison to Myford equivalent parts.     I did get a top slide/toolpost and 8 of the ten change wheels I wanted.     I've also sourced a s/h Myford thread dial indicator, which will mount with a little modification to the apron.

I was quite tempted by the change gear cover, although I already have one, for the nice change gear reference plate - but have managed to clean up the photograph and will print and fablon this to save a few quid.

I also picked up a parting tool (3/16" hss blade/holder) and some Myford change gear studs (which fit the quadrant and have the same 5/8" sleeve and 1/8 key way).

All coming together now and just want to get a decent adjustable light over the lathe bed and can start turning decent metal into swarf

[RLWP]

Sounds like you have done well there.

I have the screwcutting table for my Raglan printed out and laminated, similarly a spreadsheet for tapping drills

Just for fun, my Raglan:

http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/raglan-littlejohn-mk1/

And a ridiculous piece of setting up on my milling machine to make the cross slide:

Richard

[SnakeyJ]

Sounds like you have done well there.

I have the screwcutting table for my Raglan printed out and laminated, similarly a spreadsheet for tapping drills

Just for fun, my Raglan:

http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/raglan-littlejohn-mk1/

And a ridiculous piece of setting up on my milling machine to make the cross slide:

Richard

The Raglan looks stunning, a lot of skilled time and work to bring it up to this condition.    That milling machine looks a bit serious too and some great projects on your website!

[RLWP]

I have some documents from Lathes.co.uk for the milling machine. In 1958, a similar machine cost around £1000. It didn't cost me that off Ebay, I'm very pleased with it.

That table that tilts in two directions, together with the swivelling head can get you out of lots of problems - as long as your head doesn't explode trying to work out where you are!

I have a dividing head for it, so I'm now make changewheels if I need them

Richard

[Ajohn]

I'm trying to figure out why you have the table and the head tilted Richard.

My Raglan was the square headed one, not seen the round headed one before.  As yours the width of the bed was a lot bigger than on myford 7's. The variable speed lever on them is nice - I tend to be Mr 600 RPM, even fitting carbide if things might get a bit hot. I'm aware of the inverter low speed problems. I do have a larger milling machine about but of the rising table type. No space available to use it and quill is fixed but it may be possible to fix that.

My boxford came with gearbox and a lot of change wheels so I did a spread sheet and with some intuition found out what they can do especially metric but so far DP and modules has defeated me. One day I might find a screw cutting plate for one that could do them and would then have a good start. To be honest though I am toying with the idea of buying a small metric lathe for bits that need metric threads.  OTT really as I can just fit change wheels but ........................ Ideally it would also be super precision and capable of very high speeds. Tough thing to find with screw cutting. Fairly easy without. Argggggggg I may finish up trying to make a high speed headstock that aligns to um to the bed for a small low speed lathe. Sounds fun but I have several things to do.

Being fair to Myford I have come across several people who enjoy using ML10's and Speed 10's. Once again they aren't as they should be really. There should be a slot down the middle of the bed to align the tailstock and head. That way it can have a long saddle as all decent lathes have - the ends can pass the tail stock and headstock. This model has a dovetail bed so wear can cause more problems. Headstock bearing problems are fairly easy to fix as it uses taper rollers so there will also be adjustment.

I have 2 dividing heads - very part made one from a kit that can divide analogue fashion to 1/100 of a degree or be used in the normal fashion with index plates. As the miller came with one also made from a kit it hasn't been finished. Really the only parts that need to be bought are the worms and wheels. A small old lathe tailstock or block of what ever can be used for the body. It's even possible to make them on a lathe. That is why most of the kits aim to have the spindle centre height the same as the lathe. People just pack up designs intended for Myford 7's. Some have used stepper motors to drive them but this really needs a precision stepper.

It's possible to make all sorts of expensive tooling relatively cheaply and there is plenty of information around to help people along. One trick that isn't mentioned very often is that on some lathes it's fairly easy to convert the compound slide to a vertical slide - a part people often lust over as it allows them to mill on the lathe. Ease depends on how it is held in place.

John

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[RLWP]

I'm trying to figure out why you have the table and the head tilted Richard.

John

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Clearance. The boring head projects quite a way from the spindle, I couldn't get the dividing head underneath. I couldn't swing the cross slide I was machining over the table with the dividing head horizontal. Putting them both at an angle allowed the cross slide to swing over the table and miss the column of the machine  - just!

Yours sounds like a Little John MK 2 - this is a MK 1. If you have a look at the gearbox, it has the square styling of the later lathe because that's what it came off

Your Boxford ME10 is a nice lathe - I used to have access to a ME10A also with a quick change box. I was worried about taking on the Raglan as I didn't expect it to be as capable - I was wrong!

The Raglan cuts metric threads without using a 127 tooth wheel. Off the top of my head, I don't remember how. It's based on using a compromise setup and two pairs of changewheels. From memory, it's pretty close to the correct pitch, certainly close enough for the length of threads I cut

Anyway - back to the Portass which is looking pretty good

Richard