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Phil Dyer Colour Camera compared to Mintron 62V6HP-EX ???

Nibor

By Nibor
in EEVA - Reports

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Nibor

Nibor

Posted
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I am hoping that the collective wisdom of video observers in SGL will help me come to a decision which of these two cameras to plump for.

Following a great deal of research I have settled on either a Phil Dyer Colour camera or the Mintron 62V6HP-EX - web links as below:-

Phil Dyer:-

http://www.astrophot....uk/cameras.htm

Mintron - Modern astronomy:- (scroll up to find the camera)

http://www.modernast...l#AVaccessories

The intention is to use the camera for mainly video observing but with the possibility of some imaging if the interest develops. I would like to build the system into a "warm room" remote control situation with the scope just outside the "office / hobby room / observatory" on the balcony - a cable run of approx. 10 metres.

My Orion ED80 (f7.5 - 600mm) and Mak 127 (f11.8 - 1500mm) plus electronic focusers are the scopes I have in mind - either mounted on my S/W AZ GOTO or Celestron CG5 GT Goto mounts. (both Stellaruim controlled)

The observing site is hampered by suburban light pollution (sodium street light opposite and cul de sac neighbours' exterior lights) but a system of black canvas screening does produce a pretty good dark area to observe from - about 6' high.

The Phil Dyer camera is a remote handset version of the one on his website (this remote camera at the time of writing does not appear on the site) which is pretty much the same specification (but slightly larger) as the one in the above link but with a handset which controls the on screen camera settings - these display on the TV or computer monitor. (cabling is long enough for my warm room remote requirements) Cost is just a tad under £200 - Phil's instruction manual (I have a copy) looks to be very helpful and user friendly - and to a beginner this is a bonus!!

The Mintron would need the optional PC link cable (£29) and the camera settings would be controlled by the computer, cost in all approx. £310

I like the idea of the colour camera versions in order to get some experience of the colour in the universe but wonder if light pollution and sky glow will be a big distraction. I am also trying to keep the set up as low tech as possible as electronics / computers are not a strong point!!

So.....

In order to help me make up my mind I would appreciate any thoughts on my two choices and especially any links to websites which have images / video clips where either of these two cameras have been used (my searches have not been particularly successful in this matter) - I feel that the "live" image experience will be the deciding factor.

Many thanks in anticipation.....

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stev74

stev74

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Hi Nibor,

I've not tried the PD camera's but I do own the Mono version of the Mintron which I've only recently had a first/second light with, I must say I'm really impressed with the results. I've only used it with a Sony field monitor and not a PC yet but getting structure/spirals in galaxies from my garden for the first time was great, it preformed even better at my local dark sky sight. Also the fact that it's mono, for me anyway made it much closer to what you get visually but with more detail.

As for the colour Mintron (although I've never used one myself) this statement on the Modern Astronomy website concerns me as you will be using it on smaller scopes and as you said it will be mostly for visual observing -

This is the colour version of the Mintron 12V6HC-EX with a 1/2" colour EXview CCD. Colour cameras are not as sensitive as their mono equivalents, so I usually only recommend them for use with larger faster scopes and on the brighter deep sky objects. However performance can certainly be improved by stacking frames then processing the resultant image.

When I was first looking I made the decision that I'd prefer to go with the more sensitive mono camera to observe more detail in an image over colour but I can understand why folks decide seeing in colour is preferable, the choice is yours in the end. :smiley:

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Nibor

Nibor

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Thank you all for your comments - all thoughts are appreciated!!

Davy, Does your PD camera allow you to view in B & W mode if you choose to and if so does the detail improve? (the camera appears to be specified as a day / night camera)

Stev74, I like your point regarding the mono giving you an experience more closely related to what you would normally see at the eyepiece. Out of interest did you get the complete kit version and if so did it come with instructions and general user help? The Phil Dyer Kit is very good in this respect and I think that if I bought one it would not take long to be up and running!!

Carl, I have tried again to find the colour Mintron specifications on line but so far to no avail - I feel a telecon with Bern at Modern Astronomy is needed!!

For consideration I have attached the spec of the PD remote camera I am thinking about.

MANUAL PD Colour Camera Remote S.pdf

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Schorhr

Schorhr

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Hello,

regarding color/Bw:

The color cameras have a color filter pattern (Bayer Matrix) over the sensor, so this will naturally decrease sensitivity. Some owners of a canon DSLR removed their sensor's filter and posted the progress, very interesting but horrifying thread if you own one yourself ;-)

But to get back on topic, the same sensor type with color and one monochrome would always differ in sensitivity, switching to monochrome mode would not increase details.

Binning and stacking are the only possibility to get more details afaik, but as I am a video astronomy newbie, I could have gotten it all wrong ;-)

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shirva

shirva

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Nibor...can select either or auto...I'm Shure...as for is it Better ?..I done a test on it other night....dark country road mile from my flat window I can see a street light glow....pd1 camera picks up full lamppost and can see the bushs below it are green. ..its pitch dark and can only see the light glow by mk1 eyeballs. ..its that sensitive in colour. ..Davy

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shirva

shirva

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I'm that convinced by the pd1 I will be buying a second camera for my set up...still have my modded Samsung but the pd1 is camera of choice now...Davy

**** I have no affiliation to Mr dyer or know him,, its just a really good camera for the money*****

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Nibor

Nibor

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Hi, Nibor found a link to the specs here,

https://www.google.c.../62V6H-EX(RS485).asp&ei=gW80UpDTCsnBhAe0qIDQBw&usg=AFQjCNFUPl0KNmCGCcS_kjydzkybodQtkQ&sig2=M30F3n3rsmq3fY2jP1JhHA

Carl, Thanks for trying to locate the spec but the link takes me to a page with Chinese? characters on it - which Bing translates as "page not available"!! - any chance of a link direct to the site and not via Google??Many thanks Robin
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Schorhr

Schorhr

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The link was truncated, https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=21&cad=rja&ved=0CC4QFjAAOBQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mintron.com.tw%2Fnew%2520product%2FBOX-PROFESSIONAL%2F62V6H-EX(RS485).asp&ei=gW80UpDTCsnBhAe0qIDQBw&usg=AFQjCNFUPl0KNmCGCcS_kjydzkybodQtkQ&sig2=M30F3n3rsmq3fY2jP1JhHA

or

directly

http://www.mintron.com.tw/new%20product/BOX-PROFESSIONAL/62V6H-EX(RS485).asp

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Laurie61

Laurie61

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"Does your PD camera allow you to view in B & W mode if you choose to and if so does the detail improve? (the camera appears to be specified as a day / night camera)" Nibor

The spec's show a resolution increase if you switch from colour to B/W, 650-line colour compared to 720-line in B/W mode. I have tried both and there does seem to be a small but noticeable increase in resolution using B/W. I have no definite idea why this should be but know colour cameras bin 4 pixles together to create 1 virtual pixel and then use some computer wizardry to put back some of the detail lost in the binning process? If working in B/W mode the camera could just output the individual pixles

minus colour info, this might give the extra detail in B/W. I did think, for though's wanting decent images, that If you ran the camera in B/W and colour you could perhaps use the B/W as a luminance channel, with the extra detail, and then add the colour

info during processing. This might create sharper final images?

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Nibor

Nibor

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"Does your PD camera allow you to view in B & W mode if you choose to and if so does the detail improve? (the camera appears to be specified as a day / night camera)" Nibor

The spec's show a resolution increase if you switch from colour to B/W, 650-line colour compared to 720-line in B/W mode. I have tried both and there does seem to be a small but noticeable increase in resolution using B/W. I have no definite idea why this should be but know colour cameras bin 4 pixles together to create 1 virtual pixel and then use some computer wizardry to put back some of the detail lost in the binning process? If working in B/W mode the camera could just output the individual pixles

minus colour info, this might give the extra detail in B/W. I did think, for though's wanting decent images, that If you ran the camera in B/W and colour you could perhaps use the B/W as a luminance channel, with the extra detail, and then add the colour

info during processing. This might create sharper final images?

Laurie,

Thanks for pointing out the colour vs B & W specs - mathematically it equates to a 10% improvement - so I would have thought there should be a discernible difference.

Are there any folk who have any images taken with either the PD Camera or Mintron they would like to share?

I am now also waivering over whether or not to go for the Mono Mintron!! - Any thoughts? Trading off the Colour interest for enhanced light grabbing? (BTW - My observing site does suffer from suburban light pollution)

The PD looks good value though even though the sensor is only 1/3" and not 1/2" as in the Mintron

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stev74

stev74

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Thank you all for your comments - all thoughts are appreciated!!

Davy, Does your PD camera allow you to view in B & W mode if you choose to and if so does the detail improve? (the camera appears to be specified as a day / night camera)

Stev74, I like your point regarding the mono giving you an experience more closely related to what you would normally see at the eyepiece. Out of interest did you get the complete kit version and if so did it come with instructions and general user help? The Phil Dyer Kit is very good in this respect and I think that if I bought one it would not take long to be up and running!!

Carl, I have tried again to find the colour Mintron specifications on line but so far to no avail - I feel a telecon with Bern at Modern Astronomy is needed!!

For consideration I have attached the spec of the PD remote camera I am thinking about.

Yes I did get the full kit although I bought second hand so it never came with instructions but it was very easy to set up anyway and I was able to get it connected to the laptop using the GSTAR software and separately to my field monitor no problem. As for setting once it was all up and running (and also connecting everything if I'd needed to look) I got 'Deep Sky Astronomy' book as part of the package which gives you a great in-depth look at the subject, you can buy it separately from here it was also on Amazon but seems to be out of stock at the moment.

If you do go for the Mintron I'd give Bern at Modern Astronomy a call to be sure but I'd think that it would come with some instructions or if not I'm sure he'd keep you right. :smiley:

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Nibor

Nibor

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Steve,

Thanks for the links and I have the book you mentioned - very helpful it is to - but I have yet to get my feet wet in the image capture and process sections!!

I have now spoken to Bern at Modern Astronomy and he was very helpful and has given much to think about as to what I really want to do with video astronomy!!

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