DSLR vs webcam - what current webcam models?

[Ant-33]

Hi, folks,

I've spent some time searching SGL and the rest of the internet, and most of the advice I see tells me that a DSLR isn't great for planetary photography, and a webcam is much better. Thus far I've been getting enthusiastic about an EOS 1100D (I have a low budget, I'm afraid), but I'm reconsidering that in view of all the advice.

I'd like to consider a webcam as an alternative, but much as I've tried I can't find advice on an affordable webcam that's actually available. Can anyone advise me on this?

Also, it would be great to have pointers to exactly what mods would need to be made and how to make them.

Just to round of the picture, I'm using a Skywatcher 200p on a tripod/EQ5 mount with one motor drive for tracking. I don't have a big budget for buying piles of equipment, and I like the 200p, so I don't really want to sell it or swap it for something else. With what I've got I'm sure I'm already most of the way to doing some decent planetary imaging, so a suitable camera to replace my Nikon D40 would be a great next step.

Not having much experience with this I'm having trouble figuring it all out. Any advice on DSLR vs webcam for planetary photography, current webcam models and necessary mods would be welcomed.

Thanks

[poogle]

If you want to get into planetary imaging, then you might have a look in this thread:

The xbox webcam is really cheap and seems to work well (havn't tried it myself).

You should try doing some deep space object photography using your 1100D, it is very well suited for it. I guess you don't have any guiding? But given a good polar alignment and a well balanced setup you will be able to get 30 sec exposures with your setup. Get a whole bunch of those and stack them...you'll be amazed by the results Try for example the Dumbbell nebula (M27)

/Patrik

[Ant-33]

If you want to get into planetary imaging, then you might have a look in this thread: http://stargazerslou...ecam-mod-cliff/

The xbox webcam is really cheap and seems to work well (havn't tried it myself).

You should try doing some deep space object photography using your 1100D, it is very well suited for it. I guess you don't have any guiding? But given a good polar alignment and a well balanced setup you will be able to get 30 sec exposures with your setup. Get a whole bunch of those and stack them...you'll be amazed by the results Try for example the Dumbbell nebula (M27)

/Patrik

That's brilliant, Patrik. Many thanks for the reply. At that price I can get the webcam and the EOS 1100D, and I'll be set for both planetary and deep space. Thanks for the link to the other post. It hadn't come up in my searches, but I've bookmarked it now. I do have a motor drive, but no full up guiding - that's a future project :-)

Thanks again

Ant

[JamesF]

The other (slightly less cheap) alternative for webcam imaging these days is probably a Lifecam Cinema. The modding is rather more work, but it does a better job than the Xbox camera. There are lots of other mods that have been tried, but I think the days of very cheap high-quality webcams for planetary imaging are pretty much over unless you happen to get hold of an SPC900 or similar camera that doesn't have a ridiculous price tag.

James

[Ant-33]

Thanks, James. I'll take a look at the Lifecam Cinema. It's a shame the great deals aren't available now, but as a beginner there's a limit how much benefit I'll get from the best cameras. (for now, anyway).

Cheers

Ant

[wxsatuser]

You can use a dslr for solar system.......no problem.

[JamesF]

You can use a dslr for solar system.......no problem.

I've seen one or two outstanding examples with a DSLR, but that's all. I do wonder if you really need gobs of aperture before you can get anywhere. It would be handy if there were more examples of planetary imaging using DSLRs across a range of scopes.

James

[Ant-33]

Also, as a beginner, it may not be so easy for me with the DSLR, while a webcam may give better results while I'm learning the ropes. The truth is I'm curious to try both.

[mitchelln]

I've tried planetary with both my Canon 7D and a Philips SPC900 (the one everyone says to get). I was reading a lot of info that said the webcam would be better than a DSLR, so I thought I'd try it out to see if it was really the case.

I have to say I've achieved much better results with the Canon. I did direct comparisons on the same night with Saturn. The Canon is much more sensitive and gets results like this:

3000 frames at ISO 1250.

Whereas the SPC900 achieved this:

3000 frames with gain almost maxed out.

With perseverance, I probably could have improved on this, but to be honest the Canon is just much less of a faff with my restricted time due to small children. I control the camera and view the image via my Galaxy Note 2, so don't have the need for a laptop even. It's a plug in and go solution.

To be honest, I wasn't overly surprised. A £50 640x480 webcam vs a £1K DSLR I'm lucky enough to already own. It seemed like a no-brainer to me, but nothing ventured nothing potentially gained!

The other heresy I've committed is attaching my 7D to my Hyperion 8-24 MKIII rather than "straight" with just a Celestron Ultima barlow. Again, side to side comparisons seem to indicate that the eyepiece projection method yields better results with my rig.

Finally, top tip is to invest in an electric focusser. The movement required to achieve pin sharp focus is tiny and doing it by hand is complete trial and error because of the settling time after touching it.

[JamesF]

You need to be so careful with comparisons like this though. Assuming for the moment that you used your 300P for that image (and I have no knowlege either way), it may well be as I said earlier, that the DSLR performs better when you have loads of aperture (and perhaps a fast scope too) to throw at it. Try it in a different scope and you may get totally different results. You might even get different results if you'd taken the images ten minutes later. When I've been capturing data over a period of hours it's quite surprising how fast the seeing comes and goes.

I absolutely will not deny that in some situations it is possible to produce quite reasonable planetary images using some DSLRs. I suspect it's probably the more recent models that are best for this and also that large apertures is where the benefit really kicks in, but there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence out there at the moment. It would be great if people would have a crack at it and post about how they get on. A better understanding of when DSLRs do work well (and which ones) would probably be to many peoples' benefit.

For comparison with the above though, this is an example of what can be achieved with a webcam type camera with very moderate apertures (in this case my 127 Mak). I didn't have much choice I'm afraid, as I didn't image Saturn that much this apparition.

Unfortunately I don't have a 7D to compare against. If anyone wants to donate one I'd be very happy to put together a comparison

James

[mitchelln]

It would be great if people would have a crack at it and post about how they get on. A better understanding of when DSLRs do work well (and which ones) would probably be to many peoples' benefit.

James

Well, after about 5 runs with each on the same clear night, I can certainly vouch for the 7D and 300P

Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk 4

[Ant-33]

I think, given this discussion, it will be interesting to get a webcam and the 1100d and see what kind of results I can get with either. Since a lot depends on equipment, setup, camera settings and exposure, post processing, etc. etc, I have a long way to go to figure out which is best, but it'll be fun learning and finding out.

[hobsey]

Sorry to highjack this thread but its just a quickie.

The xbox live cam, is it just a plug and play so can use on laptop/pc or do you have to run the images through an xbox.

Many thanks.

[JamesF]

Sorry to highjack this thread but its just a quickie.

The xbox live cam, is it just a plug and play so can use on laptop/pc or do you have to run the images through an xbox.

Plugs straight into a laptop. You do need to do a small mod to fit a nosepiece, but it's nothing major.

James

[wxsatuser]

Seen very fine images with both types of camera, your tempting me to buy a Mak and webcam James.

The webcam route is most likely a good start at a cheap price.

Would not suggest that anyone gets a dslr just to do planets etc, unless of course thats what floats your boat.

If you have one already or get a cheap one, it's definately worth a punt.

As to different scopes, good point, I bow to experience on that one.

[m37]

+1 for the lifecam to start off with. You can pick one up cheap - mine was about £25 on ebay still in its original box, totally unused. You can get a sweet housing made from precision machine acetal here http://www.billetpar...pter-p-122.html and the conversion is a doddle. Just a rehousing, no long exposure options on this camera. Fits directly into the 1.25" EP holder. Small, light and convenient.

Here are some shots with different cameras:

cheap £4.99 webcam with the lens mount ripped out, gaffer taped to the drawtube. AVI via registax.

lifecam HD with IR filter , AVI via registax

by way of comparison I have now got a secondhand DMK21au04.AS (with and without focal reducer)

and this is my Pentax k-x (done as a mosaic)

[Ant-33]

Great pictures, M37 - thanks for posting

[hobsey]

Plugs straight into a laptop. You do need to do a small mod to fit a nosepiece, but it's nothing major.

That's great, thanks for the reply but I just treated myself to a LifeCam Cinema.