Refractors vs Reflectors

[Moonface]

A bit of a newbie question for you. I've been lurking a lot recently and reading everyones comments regards the pros and cons of the various types of telescope and had almost settled on the Skywatcher 150P as a good place to start. I read all the comments from you guys regards aperture and figured this scope would be fairly versatile as a result. The only thing that concerns me slightly (and this is on the basis of no experience whatsoever) is that reflectors strike me as slightly cumbersome. How easy is it to stand next to these things and get everything in the right place to have a fairly comfortable view of the sky. Can you use these sitting down? (I'm not disabled but think I'd prefer to sit rather than stand? ) With this is mind I started looking at the Skywatcher Startravel refractors. These seem to be quite fast scopes with a relatively wide field of view so from what I can gather they aren't that dissimilar to reflectors (apart from the obvious). These types of telescope strike me as being easier to handle. Are either of these assumptions true? I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this as I'm keen to actually buy one and start having a look at the sky

Thanks for any help

Daryl

[thing]

Hi Daryl, newbie here too. I've just bought a Celestron reflector. I'm 5' 11'' and there aren't many times where I can't get to the eyepiece, although it can be a bit of a contortionist job in some positions, especially looking through the finder scope. However the majority of the time it's fine standing up, you may need a high chair to use one sitting down. I believe reflectors and SCT's are a bit easier to use but for bang for buck you can't beat a reflector.

[GazOC]

Reflectors will generally give you the most amount of scope for your money, refractors tend to give slightly more contrasty views but are more expensive for a given size and the cheaper models will also suffer from false colour which refractors don't. SCTs are compact, don't suffer from false colour but can give slightly 'mushy' planetary views , require more cool down time than reflectors and are more expensive. Maks are similar to SCTs but slightly more expensive but <puts tin hat on> give better views of the planets.

[barkis]

It is true that some reflectors can be difficult when in certain attitudes. This applies mostly to those on equatorial mounts, unless the tube OTA is rotatable inn it's rings, which some are. These usually have quick release clamps on the rings to allow the tube to be positioned in a convenient attitude to access the eyepiece. Care has to be taken that the tube does not slip too far when it's clamps are released.

Sometimes there is a keep ring positioned on the topside of the top ring to prevent this happening.

Dobsonian reflectors are much easier to use, and present no problems of access in any position.

Refractors are easier to use simply because the eyepiece is always at the rear of the tube. A diagonal is a must when viewing objects at or near the zenith, otherwise you would be viewing on your knees probably. A diagonal would be in place most of the time actually.

As has been said, reflectors are as rule cheaper to buy than a refractor, and they bring all the light to the same focus, whereas a refractor, unless it is apochromatic, will not, and usually you get false colour around bright objects. Filters can alleviate this condition, but not always.

There are some beautiful Apochromatic refractors available nowadays, and up to ED80 are pretty cheaply priced. The price starts to rocket a bit when you go much above 80 mm though.

HTH you a bit.

Ron.

[Whippy]

Daryl, if you want to sit rather than stand, then you could get a tall stool to use with a reflector. Personally, I like standing up especially when it's cold as sitting down on a winter's night makes my legs go numb!

The startravel refractors series will be good for widefield objects like nebulae but they're not great for planets. The Explorer would make a better all rounder, and they don't take up too much space when you break down the mount.

Tony..

[fancybadger]

read all the comments from you guys regards aperture and figured this scope would be fairly versatile as a result. The only thing that concerns me slightly (and this is on the basis of no experience whatsoever) is that reflectors strike me as slightly cumbersome.

I bought this same scope (150p) a month or so ago. As for the scope - it's brilliant (if you do go for it though I would suggest getting a red dot finder). However it was larger than I expected. Not cumbersome as such, but it's not really viable for using a stool or chair as you will be constantly readjusting your position and the scope. Also, you will have to twist the tube around a lot to get positioned.

Currently I do the scope dance - stand, crouch, almost fall over, crouch again. Getting the hang of it though...

Chris

[Whippy]

You do realise you can get rotating tube rings if it gets on your nerves that much!!

Tony..

[Black Shuck]

You do realise you can get rotating tube rings if it gets on your nerves that much!!

Some rotating rings are quite expensive. Check this out for a home made solution! Allows you to leave you tube rings loose enough to rotate whilst maintaining the scopes position

http://www.andysshotglass.com/wilcox_rotating_rings.html

Hope it is helpful.

Cheers

Bill£

[MartinB]

For observing comfort there is nothing to touch an alt azimuth mounted scope. You have non of the awkward angles produced by equatorial mounts. You can have non goto in the form of dobsonians (a reflector with a very simple base allowing movement in alt az). You can use small dobs sitting down if you have something like an observers chair with variable height. Small refractors can be put on small alt az mounts for quick and easy viewing - so called grab and go. May be quick and easy and provide pleasing views but generally lacking in aperture for more serious observing. The most comfortable scopes for observing are the compact catadiotric scopes on fork mounts and the most versatile of these is probably a Schmidt cassegrain - SCT. These come with forks and a computerised goto system. They are a more expensive option though. BTW I've never seen mushy planets with a well collimated SCT and they are the instrument of choice for the worlds best planetary imagers.

[The Warthog]

I agree with Martin about the catadioptrics. They are so short that you can always get a view without crawling on the ground or standing on tiptoe.

I have both a reflector and a refractor. I find the reflector easy to use. I keep th rings loose enough to be able to rotate the scope without it slipping up and down too much. I use a bar stool to sit on, or sometimes just stand. I also use a RA finder, which prevents a lot of contortions.

For my refractor, I have made a 5' tall tripod, which reduces the pain of looking through the ep when viewing an object near zenith. It's still a job to look through the finder, but I don't have to lie on the ground to look through the ep, and I have seen long refractors where you had to do just that. If you buy a medium or long tube refractor, you might want to consider putting concrete blocks under the tripod legs to raise it a mite. Or dig a trough to stand in while observing. I have to rotate the refractor tube, also, but less often than with the reflector.

[Moonface]

Thanks for all your responses to my questions. This is all really useful information. I've gone ahead and ordered the 150P. Ultimately it seemed likely to be one of the best options at this price level. I don't want to spend much more than this right now so I guess I'll have to learn the scope dance (good one fancybadger ) and then maybe think about a decent refractor or SCT in the future if needs be. I've got a high chair ready so might try that but I guess at this time of year I'll probably be hopping around to keep warm most of the time. All sounds like a laugh so I'm looking forward to the scope arriving now - not sure how long that will take (ordered from first light optics) but no doubt it'll be too long now that I've actually made a decision

Thanks again for all the comments and suggestions - really appreciate them.

Daryl

[Andrew*]

All sounds like a laugh so I'm looking forward to the scope arriving now - not sure how long that will take (ordered from first light optics)

Knowing Steve, and it being the busiest time of the year, probably about 6 hours

Seriously though - good choice and I wish you the best with the new scope. i feel you're sure to enjoy it!

Andrew

[GazOC]

BTW I've never seen mushy planets with a well collimated SCT and they are the instrument of choice for the worlds best planetary imagers.

You can stack and tweak multiple frames when imaging, visually you can't...no one disputes SCTs rule the roost for planetary imaging but not many (any?) people buy them as dedicated planetary scopes for visual use.

And yes, I do know how to collimate an SCT.

[The Warthog]

i believe Talitha uses an 8" SCT for just that.

[Moonface]

All sounds like a laugh so I'm looking forward to the scope arriving now - not sure how long that will take (ordered from first light optics)

Knowing Steve, and it being the busiest time of the year, probably about 6 hours

Seriously though - good choice and I wish you the best with the new scope. i feel you're sure to enjoy it!

Andrew

Cheers Andrew. Does 'in shipping' mean that my telescope is in the mail or does that mean the elves are still wrapping it? It's been four days already!

[FLO]

All sounds like a laugh so I'm looking forward to the scope arriving now - not sure how long that will take (ordered from first light optics)

Knowing Steve, and it being the busiest time of the year, probably about 6 hours

Telescopes ordered last Friday should in theory arrive tomorrow but we are experiencing the usual seasonal delays so it might be Wed/Thu before you see it. Still in time for Christmas :santa:

[GazOC]

i believe Talitha uses an 8" SCT for just that.

I guess those must be someone elses images on Talithas website then?

[The Warthog]

i believe Talitha uses an 8" SCT for just that.

I guess those must be someone elses images on Talithas website then?

Ok, EXACTLY THAT! Maudits anglais!

[GazOC]

i believe Talitha uses an 8" SCT for just that.

I guess those must be someone elses images on Talithas website then?

Ok, EXACTLY THAT! Maudits anglais!

My using the words "dedicated" and "visual" was meant to show I was precluding imaging....

[The Warthog]

i believe Talitha uses an 8" SCT for just that.

I guess those must be someone elses images on Talithas website then?

Ok, EXACTLY THAT! Maudits anglais!

My using the words "dedicated" and "visual" was meant to show I was precluding imaging....

Oh, alright then! :hmph: I will use mine as a dedicated visual scope, when I get it, except for the odd afocal shot of the Moon, because astrophotography is the Devil's work!

[GazOC]

Thats cool WH, I'm sure you'll enjoy the scope visually . The only point I was trying to make is that SCTs are not what most people think of when they are looking for purely planetary scope for visual use. SCTs have many other great qualities, they are a great way to get a lot of aperture in a format thats compact and easy to use, its just a case of "horses for courses" IMHO. The ones I have had gave very decent deep sky views I was just never 100% happy with the planetary performance and this does seem to be a reasonably common observation.

[Moonface]

All sounds like a laugh so I'm looking forward to the scope arriving now - not sure how long that will take (ordered from first light optics)

Knowing Steve, and it being the busiest time of the year, probably about 6 hours

Telescopes ordered last Friday should in theory arrive tomorrow but we are experiencing the usual seasonal delays so it might be Wed/Thu before you see it. Still in time for Christmas :santa:

That's great! Thanks for the update Steve

[The Warthog]

Thats cool WH, I'm sure you'll enjoy the scope visually . The only point I was trying to make is that SCTs are not what most people think of when they are looking for purely planetary scope for visual use. SCTs have many other great qualities, they are a great way to get a lot of aperture in a format thats compact and easy to use, its just a case of "horses for courses" IMHO. The ones I have had gave very decent deep sky views I was just never 100% happy with the planetary performance and this does seem to be a reasonably common observation.

I have heard that SCTs, and even reflectors in the larger sizes, are not bad planetary scopes. I want to get an 8" or 9.25" in a nice orange colour. The "easy to use" feature appeals to me greatly.

[GazOC]

A large reflector is a very good planetary instrument, all I am trying to get across (not very well obviously) that that in my, and plenty of other peoples, experience SCTs can give 'soft' planetary views.

[The Warthog]

A large reflector is a very good planetary instrument, all I am trying to get across (not very well obviously) that that in my, and plenty of other peoples, experience SCTs can give 'soft' planetary views.

I'm not really arguing with you. I think we're looking at the same elephant from different viewpoints. Come around the front, here!