Some more of my infamous daft questions...

[DoodleDragon]

So since it's a clear night, I've spent the evening sat on my son's climbing frame with his mini dob. And I am frustrated.

I tried with both lenses (10mm and 25mm) and neither seemed to make an awful lot of difference over what I can see with my own eyes. Now don't get me wrong, I was not expecting the hubble telescope or to discover a fifth moon orbiting Jupiter, but everything just looked like... well, normal stars.

plus I couldn't pinpoint ANYTHING. I don't think the whole being upside down thing helped (them, not me....) but nothing particularly stood out to me on the scope. And I had orion RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. For goodness sake, I should be able to pick that out, even with a weeny kiddies scope, right? ARGH!

[DoodleDragon]

To add to the above, can I buy better lenses for this scope or will it essentially just be trying to polish a [removed word]? And would a Barlow help or again is that not really suitable?

Much obliged, lovely auricles

[DoodleDragon]

Oooh I wasn't swearing then!

[JamesF]

Is this the 76mm dob?

Individual stars will, for the most part, always look like they always do. They're so far away that in any scope they're just going to appear as points of light. I'd try giving it a whirl on the Moon and see how well that works.

If it is the 76mm dob then I think you're probably going to struggle a fair bit on fainter objects unless you can get somewhere very dark indeed.

James

[m sutton]

Hiya Doodle!

You won't get all of Orion in the scope. But if you point it at the middle star of 'the sword' hanging off Orion's 'belt' you will see the Orion Nebula. Then look up M42 to see what you were looking at

Try aiming with one eye looking down the finder and one eye looking down the length of the scope. It works for me!

[DoodleDragon]

Ive got it down at bum level at the moment as I was sitting on my son's climbing frame with it lol! I would have to be a contortionist to get to the finderscope like that. Must set up properly....

[NotSoSuperNova]

I can imagine how frustrating it must be. It's bad enough willing to see something you know is there, I was squinting like a fool through my bins trying to get Io to resolve! It didn't. From what I read though, the fun is in the hunting and the journey as well, not just the destination.

[Helite]

So since it's a clear night, I've spent the evening sat on my son's climbing frame with his mini dob. And I am frustrated.

I tried with both lenses (10mm and 25mm) and neither seemed to make an awful lot of difference over what I can see with my own eyes. Now don't get me wrong, I was not expecting the hubble telescope or to discover a fifth moon orbiting Jupiter, but everything just looked like... well, normal stars.

plus I couldn't pinpoint ANYTHING. I don't think the whole being upside down thing helped (them, not me....) but nothing particularly stood out to me on the scope. And I had orion RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME. For goodness sake, I should be able to pick that out, even with a weeny kiddies scope, right? ARGH!

I was kind of like that when I got my argos special scope, kind of let down after a wealth of propaganda and looking for my hubble images BUT I do love looking at the moon and spent a long time checking it out through the supplied eyepieces and barlow in all their combinations, the 7 sisters is another thing I can look at for ages as it was the first thing I learnt to recognise in the night sky way back in 86 I think it was when Halley's comet came around and I would sit on the fence with my old mans binos. After I got stellarium on the laptop I was off and running, rubbish scope or not I could see Saturn and rings!!! I just about had a fit, I was so pleased with myself. Then Jupiter came around and that was another wow moment, Jupiter and moons. Then Orion nebula. You sound like you need some things like that to kick start you, something with a little wow factor so that would be my suggestions. I had to lower my expectations though,and as James said stars are just pinpoints of light and the rest is usually at most a slightly fuzzy grey spot. Keep working at it though, its fun once you get going!

[m sutton]

Ive got it down at bum level at the moment as I was sitting on my son's climbing frame with it lol! I would have to be a contortionist to get to the finderscope like that. Must set up properly....

Just stand on your head. Then everything will be the right way up!

[DoodleDragon]

HAAAAHAHA!!!! Hang from the boy's monkey bars.....

[DoodleDragon]

according to my app, I was pointing right at jupiter, but I could just see stars. Will it just look like a star with this scope? I was rather hoping to see some aliens.... (joke.... mostly)

[cantab]

Most things won't especially stand out. Even the Orion Nebula, one of the brightest deep-sky-objects, will be a faint fuzzy. And of course there's every chance you had the scope mis-aimed.

Jupiter will probably look pretty much stellar at 15x. At 30x expect a very small disk, you might just spot one or two bands.

It does by most accounts benefit from improved eyepieces. Of course, one good basic eyepiece will cost as much as the scope did, hence why it ships with bottom-end ones.

[Gregnat73]

HI

I got one of these scopes as my first scope (after using bins for a few months) and had similar trouble at first. The most important thing I found was to check that the finder scope is aligned properly and have the scope somewhere were you can use it comfortably (I used mine on a windowsill looking through an open window) The best target to try first is the moon - you should see a real difference between the scope and naked eye. Jupiter is also a good target (the 10mm EP can show a disk and 2 bands if the conditions are right and of course the 4 moons) Some of my other favourites are Orion, the Pleiades, the Beehive cluster etc (to be honest the image in the scope is only a bit better than my 10x50 bins, just easier to hold still and study for a while) So in short, look online in books etc for binocular targets - they should be visible in the scope. The whole upside down/back to front thing is something I still can't quite get used to, but practice seems to help!

I also made a solar filter for the scope out of Baader film and an embroidery hoop and used it to look at sunspots!!

Hope that helps...

[JamesM]

The above point regarding the finder being aligned is really important one as many people mistakenly believe that it's attachment guarantees that it is automatically aligned when in fact that adjustment still needs to be made. Jupiter appears as a very bright 'Star' that doesn't twinkle if you can understand my logic and should be straightforward to find. If you haven't done so already I would recommend downloading Stellarium (..it's free) which can be calibrated to match the view you can see from your observation point which will certainly point the scope in the right direction, allowing you to improve on this further by using the optical finder to fine tune the scopes direction.

At the time of posting this reply Jupiter is current sitting due west and is just to the top right of the constellation Orion. If you look in this general area you will quickly notice a bright yellow star called Aldebaran which is further over to the right which you can't miss as it will be the brightest star in that area. Well Jupiter is to the right of this star and will indeed be even brighter and so hopefully you won't miss it.

Clear skies and happy hunting,

James

[DoodleDragon]

Thanks for all the wisdom, guys. It's really nice that I can get an honest reply but with total empathy - never patronising. I really appreciate that!

I think my main problem is that I generally have no idea where I am (in pretty much every context) so I've bought a compass so I can properly work out where I am, then hopefully I should be able to work out where I am and make sure I'm facing the right way. And that my apps are correctly calibrated. I know it sounds a bit simple but simple is as simple does!

[gravityguy]

Thanks for all the wisdom, guys. It's really nice that I can get an honest reply but with total empathy - never patronising. I really appreciate that!

I think my main problem is that I generally have no idea where I am (in pretty much every context) so I've bought a compass so I can properly work out where I am, then hopefully I should be able to work out where I am and make sure I'm facing the right way. And that my apps are correctly calibrated. I know it sounds a bit simple but simple is as simple does!

When using apps on a phone or and ipad, bear in mind that it isn't always 100% accurate. I pointed my skysafari app at jupiter and in its place was Ursa Major...!! I've resorted to taking the results with a pinch of salt. What would work (I assume) is using a compass and making sure that your app is saying you are pointing in the same direction. If not, turn off compass on your mobile device and just align it manually with whatever direction your compass says.

This was not limited to sky safari, it has happened on google sky maps and skywalk on both my samsung galaxy s3 and also my ipad. I assume that the 'compass' contained within these devices aren't particularly great.

To give you an idea though, this is what the sky should roughly look like when you are trying to find Jupiter. There are quite a few points of reference at the minute including the moon, orion and sirius which should help. This is a screenshot from stellarium. Jupiter is located in WSW direction. Hope it helps

[Ant]

You absolutely cannot miss Jupiter at the moment.

Go outside and look in the direction that the sun set in - which at the moment is almost exactly due West - look up and see the really bright star. That's Jupiter!

I've been observing/imaging for 30 years and after a long period away from clear skies it does still take a few moments to get my barrings - in three months the sky is completely different .

Cheers

Ant

[Naemeth]

Don't worry, you'll get there .

Make sure the finderscope is aligned in the daytime. At 30x Jupiter should show as a small disk, perhaps banding will be visible and you should be able to see the moons quite clearly at that magnification .

[DoodleDragon]

right. I've established where west is. I've managed to fast forward the app and there's a point where Jupiter and the moon are pretty close so I will be all over it (poorly baby permitting). at least I will know I'm pointing in the right direction. once I've got the big things sorted I'm hoping the small will follow, in time.

[ronin]

I am not sure that buying additional eyepieces will be of great benefit, or you will have to look at eyepieces in the range of TV plossl's which are 1.5 times the scope cost.

The scope is f/4 and in general you will need decent eyepieces for a scope this fast, actually suspect that the supplied eyepieces, they are advertised as modified achromats, are being used in a scope to which they are not suited.

[DoodleDragon]

I honestly have no idea what most of that means, sorry!

OK we had some success tonight - small steps. We got a lovely break in the clouds and had a good, clear look at the moon. That's probably childsplay to a lot of you but for my first proper target I was really impressed. As was Harry - "LOOK MUMMY, YOU CAN SEE THE CRATES!!!" I also found Jupiter and it IS a big bright star even at x30 so I think we will either have to lump it until Father Christmas provides him with something more substantial, or investigate what a better eyepiece might do.

I must say, even with this limited experience, I really enjoyed sitting out on the climbing frame with my boy and seeing the moon with such definition. Made my day, anyway!

[gravityguy]

Did you manage to see any of the moons either side of Jupiter? Depending on what time you looked you should have been able to see either 2 or 3 moons. I am able to see them using my finderscope which is 9x magnification so I am sure with the 30x they will definitely be visible. I was gobsmacked when I fifst saw them as I had no idea that it was even possible

[DoodleDragon]

going to have another bash tonight. think I *might* have had the wrong eyepiece in (duh....)

[gravityguy]

going to have another bash tonight. think I *might* have had the wrong eyepiece in (duh....)

Out of the 2 that it comes with, the 30x should be the smaller of the 2. I'm pretty certain that if you have the 30x in you'll be able to see the bands on Jupiter as well as the moons. Don't quote me on that though as I'm a newbie too! Lol

[DoodleDragon]

Yes I got them confused in my head... I got all sorted with how magnifications work and when I was practicing the other night I thought "I'm SURE they look bigger with the 25mm..." and used that instead. Gonna have another bash tonight with the 10mm. Is this the equivalent of being rubbish at parking as a gender fail? lol!