Stacking lunar images using Canon DSLR

[ilove1995]

I've had another crack at shooting the moon in Raw tonight but this time I used AS!2 to stack the images after first processing them through PIPP. The cropping hasn't come out right, PIPP had this correctly set as a full disk image so I can only assume AS!2 has re-cropped the image. First time I've used this software so need to experiment with this.

Anyway the main objective was to stack frames taken in RAW format from my Canon 600d and this is exactly what AS!2 has enabled me to do. I tried Registax 6 first and it froze during stacking just like all my other attempts previously. Registax 6 did however do a good job of applying wavelets. If I can get a full disk image with the same detail as below it will be mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned. I'll give it another crack using the same data sometime soon. For now I need to get back outside to make the most of what's left of the clear sky.

Thanks everyone for getting me to this point. Wouldn't have managed it before starting this thread.

Al

[tingting44]

nice one love! some cracking detail there! you nailed focus on that one what settings did you use and how man subs did you stack?

Martin

[ilove1995]

1/60 with iso set to 400. I processed 100 raw through PIPP and stacked the best 80 TIFFs into AS!2.

It was misty out there for a while but then it all came together for a few hours. Makes up for last nights cloud. Got to see the ISS earlier for the first time as well.

[Steve Ward]

Cracking shot that . . .

[tingting44]

1/60 with iso set to 400. I processed 100 raw through PIPP and stacked the best 80 TIFFs into AS!2.

It was misty out there for a while but then it all came together for a few hours. Makes up for last nights cloud. Got to see the ISS earlier for the first time as well.

really nice, and great job bagging the ISS mate, im dying to see that and image it one day hopefully, cant wait to see your full disc shot when u get it

[cgarry]

I've had another crack at shooting the moon in Raw tonight but this time I used AS!2 to stack the images after first processing them through PIPP. The cropping hasn't come out right, PIPP had this correctly set as a full disk image so I can only assume AS!2 has re-cropped the image. First time I've used this software so need to experiment with this.

Anyway the main objective was to stack frames taken in RAW format from my Canon 600d and this is exactly what AS!2 has enabled me to do. I tried Registax 6 first and it froze during stacking just like all my other attempts previously. Registax 6 did however do a good job of applying wavelets. If I can get a full disk image with the same detail as below it will be mission accomplished as far as I'm concerned. I'll give it another crack using the same data sometime soon. For now I need to get back outside to make the most of what's left of the clear sky.

Thanks everyone for getting me to this point. Wouldn't have managed it before starting this thread.

Al

Nice detailed image!

What is the problem you are seeing with PIPP's cropping? If it is that PIPP's crop size is too small to get all of the moon in the frame, then you need modify these 2 options and use the 'Test Options' button until you are happy with the result:

Processing Options->Crop Width

Processing Options->Crop Height

Or is the problem occurring as you put the TIFFs through AS!2?

Cheers,

Chris

[ilove1995]

Nice detailed image!

What is the problem you are seeing with PIPP's cropping? If it is that PIPP's crop size is too small to get all of the moon in the frame, then you need modify these 2 options and use the 'Test Options' button until you are happy with the result:

Processing Options->Crop Width

Processing Options->Crop Height

Or is the problem occurring as you put the TIFFs through AS!2?

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Chris,

PIPPs cropping the moon perfectly for me. It wasn't until after I ran the TIFFs through AS!2 that the cropping size changed. I'm putting this down to my lack of experience with AS!2. I've kept the TIFFs that PIPP created for me so will repeat the process to see where I went wrong in AS!2. I'm just happy at the moment that I've got a decent stack from raw images.

Thanks

Al

[ilove1995]

really nice, and great job bagging the ISS mate, im dying to see that and image it one day hopefully, cant wait to see your full disc shot when u get it

Thanks tingting. I've kept the full disk data so will try this again later.

Al

[cgarry]

Hi Chris,

PIPPs cropping the moon perfectly for me. It wasn't until after I ran the TIFFs through AS!2 that the cropping size changed. I'm putting this down to my lack of experience with AS!2. I've kept the TIFFs that PIPP created for me so will repeat the process to see where I went wrong in AS!2. I'm just happy at the moment that I've got a decent stack from raw images.

Thanks

Al

Thanks Al, I see your issue.

AS!2 does do its own centring (which can be annoying if you have carefully set an offset in PIPP) but I did not think it automatically cropped the image further. Maybe it does crop if the input image is larger than a set size.

To be honest I could never get AS!2 to handle large images from my 450D so I have always used RegiStax 6 (which just works for me). I do know that RegiStax 6 does need a lot of memory to handle large frames which can cause problems on some machines.

Cheers,

Chris

[ilove1995]

Funny how it's the opposite way round for me where AS!2 can handle the size of the files but Registax 6 can't. At some point I'll upgrade my OS to 64bit which will hopefully sort out the memory issues but for now I'll see if I can do something about the cropping in AS!2.

Thanks for all your help Chris.

Al

[JamesF]

Funny how it's the opposite way round for me where AS!2 can handle the size of the files but Registax 6 can't. At some point I'll upgrade my OS to 64bit which will hopefully sort out the memory issues but for now I'll see if I can do something about the cropping in AS!2.

My understanding (though I'm not entirely sure why I think I know this) is that AS!2 is less memory-hungry than Registax, so perhaps if you're a bit tight for memory or on a 32-bit machine AS!2 does work better.

James

[ilove1995]

I've decided I'm going to upgrade to a 64 bit Windows 7 OS. Every time I get round a problem it's a compromise and a new issue raises it's head like cropping in AS!2 which I have now.

Any excuse to upgrade...

[ilove1995]

Ok, so I've finally got round to installing 64bit os 7 on my desktop and bought some cheap ram to double the memory to 8gb. Registax 6 now works smoothly and I've been able to process some hefty tiff files created from PIPP using raw files I took on my Canon 600d.

This is image of the moon was taken on the 18th Feb. I've only managed to stack 6 tiff files because stacking any more causes ghosting on the image, in particular around the mare region. Looking at the details of the raw files, they were taken at iso400 with a shutter speed of 1/80. I suspect this may be why I'm experiencing problems stacking any more files because the shutter speed is rather slow.

Next time I'll experiment with a faster shutter and will increase iso to 800.

Al

[knobby]

Nice

[IanL]

There is an obvious ring on the outside of the limb, and the right side does look like is still has ghosting. On the other hand, the terminator is looking really good and crispy. Definitely heading in the right direction but may be worth experimenting with the various alignment parameters to see if you can get the right side looking as good as the left. Keep going!

[cgarry]

Al,

I'm glad your upgraded system has solved the RegiStax 6 memory problems. Still some more issues to work through yet maybe before you can stack large numbers of raw images. All part of the fun I think!

What were your RegiStax 6 settings? I have found that stacking Lunar images from Alt-Az set-ups require the 'Max Alignpoint Movement' value to be increased to allow for the field rotation or ghosting appears in some parts of the image. Do any of your individual images show any ghosting?

Cheers,

Chris

[scoobee]

I found this book to be a good read, like yourself I use a canon camera (650D) and the book is designed for canon users

http://www.scsastro.co.uk/catalogue/a-guide-to-dslr-planetary-imaging.htm

[ilove1995]

Al,

I'm glad your upgraded system has solved the RegiStax 6 memory problems. Still some more issues to work through yet maybe before you can stack large numbers of raw images. All part of the fun I think!

What were your RegiStax 6 settings? I have found that stacking Lunar images from Alt-Az set-ups require the 'Max Alignpoint Movement' value to be increased to allow for the field rotation or ghosting appears in some parts of the image. Do any of your individual images show any ghosting?

Cheers,

Chris

Hi Chris,

Sorry for my delayed response, just got back from the in-laws. I'm seeing a huge improvement with 64 bit os and 8gb of memory so definately a worthwhile upgrade. Even the wireless internet connection on my desktop is running smoother.

I don't recall seeing any ghosting with the raw files taken though I'll check for this again later. I mostly went with the default settings in registax 6 selecting around 200 align points. I found the alignment concentrated on the cratered area which is the area that comes out the best after stacking etc. That said I've also experimented with processing with over 1000 align points with a large number set over the mare region but this makes no improvement and actually increases the ghosting.

I've not tried experimenting with "Max Alignpoint Movement". Can you recommend a setting for this? One point worth mentioning is that when I took the raw files I didn't have my scope aligned, rather I took several shots at a time then manually re-adjusted to get the moon back in shot. With shutter speed set to just 1/80 I'm wondering if this was too slow taking into account the Earth's rotation.

Cheers

Al

[ilove1995]

I found this book to be a good read, like yourself I use a canon camera (650D) and the book is designed for canon users

http://www.scsastro....ary-imaging.htm

Hi Scoobee,

I've heard about that book before. It's tempting to buy but for me £39 is a bit pricey.

Cheers

Al

[ilove1995]

There is an obvious ring on the outside of the limb, and the right side does look like is still has ghosting. On the other hand, the terminator is looking really good and crispy. Definitely heading in the right direction but may be worth experimenting with the various alignment parameters to see if you can get the right side looking as good as the left. Keep going!

Thanks, I'm going to keep going until I get this right. AS!2 does a great job of the mare but unfortunately it crops the picture so I'm reliant on getting it right in Registax 6 for a full disk image.

Al

[ilove1995]

After a disappointing imaging session tonight I thought I'd have one last crack at attempting to process the lunar stills I took on the 18th Feb. This time I've output the files as bmp from PIPP instead of TIFF and ran 48 of them through Registax 6.

Below is the resulting image. I think I could have gone a tad more aggressive with wavelets but it's taken me all night to get to this point and I'm happy with the final image and don't wish to spoil it.

Job done...

Al

[ilove1995]

Oops, didn't mean to attach the same image twice...

[cgarry]

Al,

Now that is a cracking image, I think you have nailed it! Great work.

Chris

[ilove1995]

Cheers Chris and thanks for all your help. James F included...

You know what, I was almost at the point of giving up on AP. Thought about selling my setup and buying a Dob but I may now invest in an equatorial mount instead and perhaps even getting a 127 mak to stick on it. (Still fancy getting a Dob at somepoint though! )

Al

[JamesF]

You know what, I was almost at the point of giving up on AP. Thought about selling my setup and buying a Dob but I may now invest in an equatorial mount instead and perhaps even getting a 127 mak to stick on it. (Still fancy getting a Dob at somepoint though! )

I think that's looking very nice now. There are some clear artefacts that I'm sure are because it's been converted to JPEG, so quite possibly before that it looks even better (I keep my images as TIFF or PNG because JPEG does unpleasant things to them). I hope you're pleased you persisted. Sounds like you are.

One of the really nice things about SGL is that people post images and explain what kit they used and how they processed the image, but because going into a lot of detail can be tedious it does tend to be a relatively brief description and that may have the unfortunate side-effect of misleading people into the belief that imaging is just a question of pointing the camera and telescope at what you want, getting a load of subs, running them through whatever tools you need and out comes a lovely image at the end.

Unfortunately that's not how it is. I will often spend significantly more time just getting the focusing right than is actually represented in the captured data. By the time I'm happy I might actually only be moving the focuser by tenths or even less of a degree. And once I've captured the data (for a Moon shot, say) I could end up running it through Registax anything between half a dozen and a dozen times choosing different reference frames, different numbers of alignment points and numbers of frames to stack perhaps taking as much as a couple of hours to get a result I'm happy with. And that's before I've even got to playing with wavelets. As I've improved it's got even worse because I've become more demanding and started to pick up on smaller faults. I'm certain I'm hardly alone there.

So it does require a fair amount of hard work and dogged persistence, it can be infuriating and frustrating and you can end up throwing away all the data you've captured one night because it no longer meets the standards you now set for yourself. On the other hand, when it comes right and you have an image you feel really good about it's fantastically rewarding. It's also important to remember that whilst you (or I, or anyone else) might aspire to create images as good as those posted by others, the person you really need to do better than is the one who created your last image

I'm all for having something like a dob or other wide field telescope too. I very much enjoy imaging, but visually you get to experience the sky in a completely different yet equally enjoyable, unfussy and uncomplicated way. I try to keep the lunar and solar imaging going all the time when circumstances allow, but otherwise there are times when it's very pleasant just to drag out a scope and spend a few hours "looking at stuff". I did that most of last summer/autumn, had loads of fun and saw things that, if I'd been imaging, I'd probably have missed.

James