M51 take 2....

[Mike73]

Viewed M51 lots of times now as its an easy find and a target I use to see if its dark enough to start serious observing.

Back in the spring I was just about to finish of the evening when I decided to sketch M51. Found it easy enough and I think I settled down with a 12mm BST and sketchpad ready to hopefully pick out the spiral arms. After 20 minutes viewing I gave in, I wasn't going to sketch anything that I couldn't definitely see and although I thought I caught a couple glimpses I just couldn't really confirm it.

Fast forward to last night....

Picked out a few objects, did some sketches then for some reason M51 popped back into my head. Swung the scope around from Sagittarius to Canes Venatici, framed M51 turned both my red lights off and set to work trying different EP's gradually building a picture up just by using different mags which helped show the contrast but still no detail.

I then settled in with my 10mm and averted vision just seemed to make both cores brighter but STILL no spiral arms.

As a last ditched effort I tried something I read about a while ago, gently rocking the OTA from side to side I relaxed my eyes and low and behold there they were....Two spiral arms, one pointing north and the other south. I quickly changed to a 7mm EP and made the sketch.

Both last night and the spring sessions were observed from the same dark site and using the same 12" f/5. SQM readings and seeing the Lagoon nebula with naked eye confirmed the LM was 6.3 but as the Milky way was so bright I'd hazard a guess that it was slightly darker in the spring.

So the morale of the story........If at first you don't succeed blah blah blah. (or buy a bigger scope!)

[estwing]

patience is a virtue.....

[WaveSoarer]

That's very good going. It also explains why I could only just make out the dull disks with my 200p. Darker skies needed.

[rory]

great going mike. and the sketch is fantastic mate.

[Josh Wilson]

Wonderful sketches on your site! I have tried to view M51's spiral rings for a while, but unfortunately all I see is the faint whisp of its core and its companion galaxy. I guess I need darker skies... I'm trying to find a moderately DSS, almost anything is better than what I have. I can only see the constellations stars, none of the stars in between. No DSO's visible with the naked eye... but I manage . Anyway, keep up the observing and sketches!

[John]

Good going !

I've seen the spiral structure of M51 from a dark sky site with 12" and 10" scopes but can't replicate that at home due to some light pollution. It's still a nice object though and the supernova in the galaxy last year added some interest.

I've also seen this object briefly from the same dark sky site above with a 20" dobsonian - they was a truly amazing view

[Mike73]

I've also seen this object briefly from the same dark sky site above with a 20" dobsonian - they was a truly amazing view

Bet that was quite a sight!

All the time I was looking at m51 it felt like I had a little devil sat on my shoulder telling me that I NEED a bigger scope.

[Mr Q]

Josh - This list may help you with your LP skies. How have you been locating your objects? By star hoping?

OBJECTS

[John]

Bet that was quite a sight!

All the time I was looking at m51 it felt like I had a little devil sat on my shoulder telling me that I NEED a bigger scope.

It was rather stunning. The only downside was a slight sense of inadequacy when I got home and used my 10" newtonian again. That faded after a while though and I've had some great views with it since. I'm also aware that, even if I could afford one, a really big scope is just not practical for me for 95% of the time. The 20" was a reasonably compact F/4 and still seemed as large as a small car to me !

[Josh Wilson]

Josh - This list may help you with your LP skies. How have you been locating your objects? By star hoping?

OBJECTS

Yes. Star hopping is usually what I use for finding DSOs. If I view an object enough, I find I don't have to use star hopping and I can just point right to the object without hopping. M51 seems to be one of the few I can't find to begin with.

And 51 isn't on that list but it's still helpful to have the coordinates.

[Mr Q]

Josh - Her's a couple of links to help you find M51:

http://www.starastronomy.org/sites/default/files/Messier.pdf

http://www.astroleague.org/al/obsclubs/messier/messlist.html

http://www.solarius.net/Pages/Articles/dbArticle.aspx?artid=messier_finders

This is an early birthday present Hope you can unwrap it (M51) by finally seeing it

[RikM]

M51 I find to be extremely variable from home (some LP). I have seen hints of spiral structure with my 10" but normally just get the two cores and a diffuse peanut shaped cloud. Sky transparency is the key thing that dictates how my view is. Sometimes it can be really dark and yet with a light haze, I still can't see much. Other times, the sky may be still quite bright, but clear and I get a good view.

[Mike73]

Has anyone here ever managed to see the bridge connecting M51 to NGC5185? Now that must be a challenge!

[Mr Q]

Has anyone here ever managed to see the bridge connecting M51 to NGC5185? Now that must be a challenge!

Yes, on a dark night with VLM of about 5.5 and with nice transparent sky, the connecting bridge was seen with averted vision as well as a hint of spiral structure in my 10" newt.

[Mr Q]

Yes. Star hopping is usually what I use for finding DSOs. If I view an object enough, I find I don't have to use star hopping and I can just point right to the object without hopping. M51 seems to be one of the few I can't find to begin with.

And 51 isn't on that list but it's still helpful to have the coordinates.

M51 is on the 2nd link under "early spring" and the 3rd link is a great finder chart.

I had the same problem years ago locating M51 but after star hopping from the end handle star in the right direction (using a 27mm EP), I finally found it as a tiny faint fuzzy star and once I switched to a 12mm EP, it took form with both EGs seen. On a dark, transparent night, with a 6mm EP, I saw the connecting arm with averted vision and just a hint of it with a 12mm EP. Even though its at 9th mag, keep trying because its high surface brightness should be seen in LP skies though on the faint side. I have detected it with a 4.5" newt and the above descriptions was with a 10" newt.

[RikM]

Yes, on a dark night with VLM of about 5.5 and with nice transparent sky, the connecting bridge was seen with averted vision as well as a hint of spiral structure in my 10" newt.

Same here, with similar sky conditions and equipment:

[Admiral Crispy]

Nice drawings. Transparency is the key with m51. Normally in my mag 4.8 ish skies I can only see two cores, but in very good seeing I can kind of make out the bridge between the two. It always seems fainter than I remember it, which is always a bit odd!

[Mike73]

Thanks gents, I thought the seeing was quite good when I viewed M51 last but I have to admit that I was so determined to see the spiral arms that the bridge to NGC5195 was an after thought.

[m_j_lyons]

The Whirlpool is such a pretty target. And one that definitely teases out the desire for a bigger scope. I jumped from a 4.5" to 10" and nearly gasped when I first saw the spiral structure POP out at me. What a sight. One can say the same, even if very subtlety , about M101...it likes a bigger scope to bring out structure.

Happy hunting.