Would a Telrad help?

[camoscato]

I'm a newbie with a Sky-Watcher 909 on an EQ2 mount. I took the scope out for the first time last night, and while I was able to easily find bright objects (Saturn, Arcturus, Vega, Albireo, etc.), I struggled when I tried to find dimmer objects.

For example, I never found M13. I understood the instructions in Turn Left at Orion - draw a line between Vega and Arcturus, split it in thirds, find the Keystone, etc - but when it came time to look through the finder scope, I couldn't match up the very few stars I could see with the naked eye with the many I could see in the finder scope. I know it sounds stupid, but there were so many more in the finder scope, and it was hard to tell which of the many I could see in the scope was the one I could see with the naked eye.

In addition to inexperience, another factor is I'm on the outskirts of London (near Watford), so the light pollution is pretty bad. I'm thinking a Telrad might help when star hopping, as the large field of view might make it easier to get from one bright star to another.

I'd appreciate any thoughts/suggestions anyone has.

[Bart]

Camoscato,

You need to be able to see the bright stars to act as an reference for the Telrad. However, if you can see them, the Telrad is invaluable. There are 'Telrad Maps' from the web that will make finding the Messiers very easy indeed, assuming you have reasonable skies. Some of them need reasonably dark skies.

Good luck

[TonyM]

..... I couldn't match up the very few stars I could see with the naked eye with the many I could see in the finder scope. I know it sounds stupid, but there were so many more in the finder scope, and it was hard to tell which of the many I could see in the scope was the one I could see with the naked eye........

I had exacly the same problem and the Telrad solved it completely.

[Qualia]

+ 1 for the Telrad. From a city it works well when used in tandem with a 9x50mm correct image viewfinder, but would be near useless if used only on its own. The Telrad is great for placing the telescope in the correct area and for quickly working out direction and distances, and the finder indispensable for fine tuning your hunt and star hopping. A decent Star Atlas to help guide you is also a must but even with this kind of set up, stargazing from an LP area isn't exactly a piece of cake - especially if you're trying to find an object with no obvious star to guide you.

Good luck.

[carlc]

Thread Hijack!

Camoscato - whereabouts are you based? I'm in Watford but still looking for a dark site.

There is another observer based in Watford (Buzz_Lightbeer) but I'm not sure where exactly - he hasn't replied to my post in his thread.

LP round here isn't funny - I've a telrad on back order and hope it's going to help. As Qualia states a better finder may help and definitely a star atlas (but it does take some practice to read them) - I've got the Sky and Telescope Pocket Atlas and it does the job so far.

By the way: Qualia - how did you fit the RACI finder to your Tal - did you have to drill holes?

[Tyr]

I find the telrad + magnified 9x50 right angle corrected image finder combination very useful for this reason. If I can get one star into the telrad outer circle which I can see naked eye then I know where it should be in the finder view and can star hop from there, using the 9x50 finder.

Some thing that might help with your current equipment, you could check that the view through the finder is properly aligned with the view through the eyepiece. Test with something bright like vega which you already mention you can find, make sure if it's centred in the 25 mm EP it's also centred in the finder, then repeat the exercise with your higher power 10mm EP. That way you can be sure what you're looking at between the two matches up.

Tyr

[Qualia]

By the way: Qualia - how did you fit the RACI finder to your Tal - did you have to drill holes?

Carl, we'll have to send in some photos of our set-ups, be nice to see what we've gopt going on.

If you can imagine, I've taken out the Tal 6x30 finder and have replaced it with the 9x50mm. No new holes, just screwed in the skywatcher bracket into one of the OTA holes with a little bit of denim-jean underneath the bracket to prevent scratches and enhance grib. It is absolutely 100% firm and solid. When setting up I always give the telescope a spin on the Gem, from left to right and up and down, and nothing ever budges.

The Telrad is placed to the left of this and again, no stick down to mess up the OTA. I just fixed the supplied Telrad holder with three plastic tie straps. It works a dream. Again 100% solid and whenever I fancy, I can just snip away the ties. I guess some folk may say it looks 'out of place' but I haven't seen that yet. Aesthetically, it makes the set up look like some cosmic peaceful sniper instrument

I have a whole bag of plastic ties which I bought and have only ever used three of them, so if you give me your address, I can send a few through to you to check out?

[LeeB]

Another vote for red dots and telrad , last night out all night and 80% + hit dso first time. The telrads were out of stock so made my own improved version last year , bigger screen glass and 50mm lens mean I can still see whole circle from 1m down the tube.

Get one you will not fail to be impressed.

[paul schofield]

I use the Telrads smaller brother, the Rigel Quikfinder and it helps me a great deal when star hopping in unison with my 9x50 finder. I don't like the red dot finder as I don't really find a single red dot very useful for deep sky observing, sure it can get you in the general area but I think the buck stops there, for me anyway. The target site on The Telrad or Rigel is a great tool to have being more precise with varying degrees in the red circles. I think on a Telrad is 1,2 & 4 degree circles. So in short I think the Telrad would be a great investment for your scope. They can be hard to get hold of though, that's why I went for the Rigel.

[Ganymede12]

Have you tried searching for the ring nebula? You will be able to see it because I can see it with my Sky-Watcher 707 and using averted vision really brings out the detail in it. So your scope should be able to see the fainter objects.

As for M13 I have yet to see it too. I went up to Blaenavon with a group of other SGLers and even at 11:00 I couldn't see it.

I think it's down to conditions.

Minimal light pollution and astronomical darkness.

[camoscato]

Many thanks to everyone for all the helpful advice.

+ 1 for the Telrad. From a city it works well when used in tandem with a 9x50mm correct image viewfinder...

I find the telrad + magnified 9x50 right angle corrected image finder combination very useful for this reason.

Thank you both for mentioning right angle finder scopes, because I wondered whether that might help also. I think I'll eventually upgrade to one to make the whole process easier.

Have you tried searching for the ring nebula? You will be able to see it because I can see it with my Sky-Watcher 707 and using averted vision really brings out the detail in it. So your scope should be able to see the fainter objects.

Haven't tried yet, but will give it a go tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

Camoscato - whereabouts are you based? I'm in Watford but still looking for a dark site.

I'm in Sarratt, and can confirm that my back garden is not a very suitable dark sky site. Funnily enough, my name is Carl, too.

Thanks again to everyone who replied! Off to find a Telrad!

[edited to add] Telrad ordered! Thanks again everyone!

[coxy322]

Do not delay, the sooner you get a telrad you will realise the potential in your new hobby!

It takes less than 30s on average to find things, once you have visited a target once or twice you'll find them again in seconds.

Dew is a problem, they are a magnet for the moisture so think about this when you use it. Also the more stars you can see with the naked eye the better - but keep your finder and you have that x9 to show you quite a bit... then move to the main scope and check, using lowest powered ep.

[Mr Q]

Have you tried searching for the ring nebula? You will be able to see it because I can see it with my Sky-Watcher 707 and using averted vision really brings out the detail in it. So your scope should be able to see the fainter objects.

As for M13 I have yet to see it too. I went up to Blaenavon with a group of other SGLers and even at 11:00 I couldn't see it.

I think it's down to conditions.

Minimal light pollution and astronomical darkness.

Ant, the other one - If you have no trouble locating/detecting M57 at 9th mag., M13 at 6th should be easier. Are you sure you had the right location? Even under light polluted skies, M13 is still visible though faint. As they say, if you can see the "keystone stars", you should be able to see M13. Keep trying - once you do find it, coming back to it after becomes very easy

[carlc]

Carl, we'll have to send in some photos of our set-ups, be nice to see what we've gopt going on.

If you can imagine, I've taken out the Tal 6x30 finder and have replaced it with the 9x50mm. No new holes, just screwed in the skywatcher bracket into one of the OTA holes with a little bit of denim-jean underneath the bracket to prevent scratches and enhance grib. It is absolutely 100% firm and solid. When setting up I always give the telescope a spin on the Gem, from left to right and up and down, and nothing ever budges.

The Telrad is placed to the left of this and again, no stick down to mess up the OTA. I just fixed the supplied Telrad holder with three plastic tie straps. It works a dream. Again 100% solid and whenever I fancy, I can just snip away the ties. I guess some folk may say it looks 'out of place' but I haven't seen that yet. Aesthetically, it makes the set up look like some cosmic peaceful sniper instrument

I have a whole bag of plastic ties which I bought and have only ever used three of them, so if you give me your address, I can send a few through to you to check out?

Hi Qualia

Sadly there is nothing going on with my Tal - it's as bought (the Telrad is on back order and I'm saving for the RACI - bought too many EPs whilst the clouds made me stir crazy). Thank you for the offer - plastic ties aren't hard to find round here and are always useful so I don't mind buying some).

At least there are some clear skies at the moment - my wallet can have a rest.

[cotterless45]

I use a Telrad and the Caldwell and M charts on the web. As a newbie, I couldn't find anything with a finderscope,

Nick.

[carlc]

Many thanks to everyone for all the helpful advice.

Thank you both for mentioning right angle finder scopes, because I wondered whether that might help also. I think I'll eventually upgrade to one to make the whole process easier.

Haven't tried yet, but will give it a go tonight. Thanks for the suggestion.

I'm in Sarratt, and can confirm that my back garden is not a very suitable dark sky site. Funnily enough, my name is Carl, too.

Thanks again to everyone who replied! Off to find a Telrad!

[edited to add] Telrad ordered! Thanks again everyone!

Hey Carl

We'll have to find a dark sky sight (I wasn't suggesting your garden ) - I'm still racking my brains - I have a feeling it's going to be a little distance - maybe the Ashridge Estate which is about 30 minutes away and has some open areas along the roads and away from the house (don't want the Police thinking I'm a burglar).

[Tinker1947]

All my DSO are found using a Telrad, Stellarium and the free Telrad maps, little bit of practice and you can drop right on top of most any DSO's you choose to view....

[Ganymede12]

Ant, the other one - If you have no trouble locating/detecting M57 at 9th mag., M13 at 6th should be easier. Are you sure you had the right location? Even under light polluted skies, M13 is still visible though faint. As they say, if you can see the "keystone stars", you should be able to see M13. Keep trying - once you do find it, coming back to it after becomes very easy

Really? I have been struggling so far. In my light polluted skies I need dark adaptation to see all four keystone stars.

Tonight I'm going globular hunting.

[camoscato]

Just wanted to post a quick follow up to say thanks for all the good advice. My Telrad arrived today, and I've just spent the last 2 hours or so happily playing around with it. I was able to find M13, M57, and M27, and that's all from my light polluted back garden. I'm looking forward to getting out to a properly dark sky!

[Qualia]

Good one, Camoscato. I think it will probably be one of your most fruitful and used purchases. If you havn't already, don't forget to check out some of the Telrad map sites, for example, Messier Telrad.

I wish you good luck in your hunting and hope you get some decent clear skies.