Faulty DFK21 ?? is this normal....

[eyepod]

Hi I got my DFK21au618 yesterday and have notice when i increase gamma, exposure or gain i get 2 lines slightly right of center see pics attached. could someone tell me if this is normal i know settings are high in the pic i have turned up gamma to show the lines but i noticed this straight away as i was trying to image saturn as you have to have the gain high for saturns low brightness.. seems to be there regardless of which video settings i choose.

regards

Jason

[riklaunim]

It may be an issue with the sensor... Is it visible at max gain, normal gamma (should not be modified) and for example 1 sec exposures (dark frames, or on short exposed "flat" frames?)

[eyepod]

it does become visable as you increase the exposure with gamma at 1, and it was showing on some of my avi's i took last night. i think i will ask for a replacement thanks for your reply.

regards

Jason

[Space Cowboy]

Here's the tutorial zipped file Jason :

How to use the IS DBK planet imager.zip

[gary1968]

Just to jump in on this thread, my DFK21AU618 shows exactly the same lines as yours Jason...... have you found out this is normal or not??

Gary

[riklaunim]

Flat frames may show some slight line patterns - from gain amplifier invariability or something like that. However at normal imaging they should not be visible (standard gamma, up to max gain and any sane exposure time).

[gary1968]

Flat frames may show some slight line patterns - from gain amplifier invariability or something like that. However at normal imaging they should not be visible (standard gamma, up to max gain and any sane exposure time).

Thanks for that info mate. I must admit, I am only sitting in the house getting familiar with the camera and software, I have not even got a lens or scope on it so am just playing with dim and bright lights just now.

Tomorrow night will see its first use on my scope, I will worry more about the lines if I can see them then, I was not really worried just now, just thought I'd ask as someone had already done so.

I had a look through that tutorial that Spacecowboy linked to, good information in there that should get me started tomorrow night.

Gary

[FLO]

...... have you found out this is normal or not??

We showed Jason's pictures to Imaging Source. They replied saying the artifacts are visible only when gain and gamma are set high. The camera isn't faulty but Jason is welcome to return it for a refund if he wishes.

HTH

Steve

[eyepod]

Ok i think i've made some progress,

Thanks for that PDF Stuart that helps a lot.... still a bit confused about debayer..???

Gary, I think the problem maybe a software glitch..... those two faint lines go away when i select anything other 30fps in the top right hand corner of IC capture regardless of video codec. 7, 15, 60 are fine.

Stuart i think i read in another post of yours along time ago when you and Neil got these 618 cams that you can manually select frame rate ie 28,29 etc obviously this changes with the exposure setting anyway.

just need to get my colours sorted out now its quite tricky getting the colour right for saturn as its so dim with these hazy conditions but tonight looks better

Thanks also to FLO for getting in touch with TIS and for responding very quickly to my earlier concerns, the after sales service is why i purchased it from them.

regards

Jason

[gary1968]

Thanks for the info Steve, put my mind at rest......

Gary

[todd8137]

Flat frames may show some slight line patterns - from gain amplifier invariability or something like that. However at normal imaging they should not be visible (standard gamma, up to max gain and any sane exposure time).

Nice website

Pat

[gary1968]

Jason, I had those lines last night no matter what FPS I had it set at, but I was using the DFK with no optics, and sitting in the house, just using varying levels of light and colour trying to familiarise myself with it and the software..... I will see later tonight how it looks when I have my 1st light on Saturn.

gary

[eyepod]

Hi Gary could you post a picture of what yours look like would be interesting to compare, i get them only selecting 30fps have tried different laptops with win7 and XP and image capture software but still there. I can change the position of them by using the rotate image controls in IC capture

had to give up trying to image tonight as seeing is terrible

regards

Jason

[gary1968]

I will get an image up over the weekend Jason..... I never even attempted imaging tonight as it was blowing a gale at the dark site we went to.... those big dobs are like sails in the wind.... , should have set up in the garden as it was calm here!!

Gary

[gary1968]

OK Jason.... just did a few snapshot BMP's all taken with max gain and 296 gamma. These were not images from avi's just instant bmp's. You are correct though, all fps settings are fine except 30fps, And they rotate along with the image if I click one of the rotate buttons.

What do you think?

Gary

15fps.bmp

30fps.bmp

60fps.bmp

[gary1968]

Oh, and the camera cap was fitted so it is pure dark frames.

Gary

[eyepod]

Thanks Gary, that's identical to what i get...

Imaging source said these artifacts are due to high gain gamma being used, now i accept that high settings will of course produce noise but these lines are there with gain at 850, Gamma on 100 which is normal setting and exposure on 1/19. To image Saturn or low brightness object you have to have higher settings than this and the lines will be on the Avi, so effectively we can't use the 30fps setting which is the one your most probably going to use ! i thought yesterday i could just select 31fps and it would be ok but that doesn't work. I think i will ask Stuart (spacecowboy) as he has a dfk to post some images, same settings as yours to see what he gets. I will try to do some more test tonight, last night seeing was terrible couldn't focus on anything.

thanks again

Jason

[Space Cowboy]

I will check mine out some time today if possible does look odd how the line only appears on 30fps. You can change exposure by one digit but not fps so say you can select 1/31 sec but not 31fps.

[eyepod]

Thanks Stuart

[Space Cowboy]

Ok, just done a quick test with the camera cap on. Raised gain to max and gamma to 300 and all I get is random noise no sign of any vertical lines at 30fps or any other.

I'm probably talking rubbish but have you tried installing the latest version of IC Capture or even tried Sharpcap? I know when I first used my dfk the software provided with the CD had a bug which made 60fps not possible unless the exposure was changed to 1/61 sec so whether a bug could cause the vertical line effect???

With debayering make sure both the video and colour codecs are y800 which gives a mono live view....if the live view is in colour then you need to un-check enable dbayering on the iccapture menu as this is only used for live view it wont produce a colour avi.

As!2 automatically debayers the avi when its loaded.

[eyepod]

Thanks for trying that Stuart. yes i have the latest drivers/software and i've tried sharpcap. Also tried on a laptop running XP instead of win7 and it does exactly the same, so i think i will take the offer of a refund.

best regards

Jason:)

[gary1968]

Jason, what did you decide with regards to the lines produced by these cameras?. I have done a lot of internet searching and the only reference to this particular issue I can find is this thread here........ I am not sure I am happy that the camera is OK??.

And am even more worried now that I wont be able to really test the camera now until September......

Gary

[todd8137]

Send it back if the retailersis any good they will swap it if not do not use them again

[eyepod]

Jason, what did you decide with regards to the lines produced by these cameras?. I have done a lot of internet searching and the only reference to this particular issue I can find is this thread here........ I am not sure I am happy that the camera is OK??.

And am even more worried now that I wont be able to really test the camera now until September......

Gary

Have sent it back for a refund just wasn't happy about those lines. thing is these are not cheap camera's, i have a couple of £15 webcams and you can max out everything and they show no lines other than normal noise. I'm a bit disappointed with the imaging source for saying this is normal, other people have these cams and have none of the lines we are seeing at 30 fps.

Jason

[FLO]

And am even more worried now that I wont be able to really test the camera now until September......

You bought it from us Gary, there is no need to be concerned

Feel free to return it for a full refund in September if you are not happy with the result.

In this instance we are offering a full refund, not a replacement, because Imaging Source tell us aberrations visible only when gain and gamma are set high are not considered faults. If we send you a replacement the chances are it will be the same.

HTH,

Steve