Guiding conversion project for 200p and EQ5

[stan26]

Hello Stan,

I take it that most logitech webcams will work? Does PHD have a list or do they have to have certain requirements?

I think I am going to get the £80 USB one as my laptop is quite new.

That diagram is really useful. Bit off topic but its really quite accurate at how everything looks, well done .

Thanks

Most webcams will probably work to some degree, BUT its the CCD sensor versions and even better the SONY ccd sensor versions like my 4000 pro that are best, but even the most sensitive CCD webcams will struggle on anything dimmer than a mag 6 star unles modded for long exposure.

PHD is not picky over what make/model it uses, you have no list to choose from as such, you just select the type of camera you're using i.e Atik 16, optistar, webcam...etc etc....

GPUSB is fine, most use it because they have USB available on there laptop. I have both, but choose to use serial because its more reliable and direct plug n play and cheaper!

Regards

Stan

[The_PSY3NTIST]

I have watched this thread with great interest but what kind of resolution will this have? The goto upgrade states Resolution: 0.288 arc second. Not too fussed about the goto but is the extra accuracy worth the extra 200 quid? Eventually I want an eq6 but that's a little out of reach at the minute.

[malc-c]

I guess the only way to really see what is happening, is to view a star through an eyepiece that has the same field of view as the camera and then try and press one of the buttons for half a second and see if the star vanishes. If so then there is little that can be done as the autoguider QM is using appears to have a fixed pulse width, which is too much when used with the shoestring modification.

I have discovered a site where the guy has developed a USB -ST4 adapter for around $60 Autoguider adapter: USB to ST4 output guider

He also makes the HEX code for the PIC micro available too - Not sure how it compares to the shoestring offerings, but I'll keep looking to see if there is something out there that might help.

QM - how does the LVI camera come into the guide equation if it doesn't have any other connections other than the ST4 port ?

[stan26]

I have watched this thread with great interest but what kind of resolution will this have? The goto upgrade states Resolution: 0.288 arc second. Not too fussed about the goto but is the extra accuracy worth the extra 200 quid? Eventually I want an eq6 but that's a little out of reach at the minute.

Probably not much help to you question here, but with my tuned EQ3-2 guided with dual axis steppers I manage to get an average PHD feedback graph with around 0.22 Osc index and 0.16RMS. Thats with a guide scope of almost 300mm FL. I think thats pretty good, infact I have seen worse with HEQ5's.......

Not sure what the arc second resolution should be with the EQ5/EQ3-2's......?

[The_PSY3NTIST]

Thanks Stan. Will continue to watch the discussion develop do you have any examples of your guided work online?

[Quatermass]

QM - how does the LVI camera come into the guide equation if it doesn't have any other connections other than the ST4 port ?

The Lvi camera plugs into the control unit and then a cable comes out from that directly into the dual axis control unit via the st4 port I modded on. In effect the lvi control unit has all the software built in to it.

However it does not have the flexibility that phd offers and will not calibrate without a much lower guiding speed.

It would be fine with an Heq5 or eq6 but my modification is better suited to Stans arrangement.

So all is not lost despite not being able to use the Lvi. I can now continue my set up with the addition of GPUSB adapter from shoestring and a webcam on my finder scope as Stan has done.

As for the EQ5 dual axis modd with an ST4 port that was a success.

Its all a case of trail and error but as Stan has proven it works.

Sent from my GT-S5670 using Tapatalk

[stan26]

Thanks Stan. Will continue to watch the discussion develop do you have any examples of your guided work online?

Its still early days for me and guiding,but here you can find a pic of my first and only guided imaging effort so far.

http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/172953-eq3-2-dec-axis-direct-drive-mod.html

Also there are graph screen shots to show the guiding accuracy. I have only just started getting Osc index of around 0.22 after a bit of tweaking. Some of the subs in the image where pre-tweak where the guiding was OK but not as good, especially in DEC.

And here you can find my original thread on guiding with the EQ3-2, with the first ever guided shot I took when I first linked it all up and hit the guide button for the first time with absolutely no tweaking whatsoever!

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-discussion/169572-woohoo-guiding-eq3-2-a.html

HTH

Stan

Edited January 29, 2012 by stan26

[Quatermass]

Thanks you for your diagram Stan a picture is much easier to understand for me and yours shown below is nice and clear.

I will do the same and post up next what my set up looks like as well. Hopefully that will help those following this thread on our conversion modding projects.

In my set up the LVI guider replaced the laptop and its camera replaced the webcam but the LVI will not function on this setup because of too high gear ratios PHD does not have this issue. And for free software puts the LVI to shame.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Quatermass

[The_PSY3NTIST]

Its still early days for me and guiding

Well considering its early days that is one hell of a result!

Just noticed you are using a st102. How much of the fov did m42 take up using the d500? I pre ordered an evostar 102mm OTA for Luna but the supplier couldn't get one.. Seems they only come on mounts. Might have to go for the st instead after seeing this.

[stan26]

Thanks QM.

Actually I'm really happy with the way the above picture has come out. Its probably the best image I have posted on here, and no tweaking curves and levels either:D:D:D

Stan

[stan26]

Well considering its early days that is one hell of a result!

Just noticed you are using a st102. How much of the fov did m42 take up using the d500? I pre ordered an evostar 102mm OTA for Luna but the supplier couldn't get one.. Seems they only come on mounts. Might have to go for the st instead after seeing this.

Thanks PSY3NTIST.

I have attached single 5min sub of M42 in its original raw format (although this is a resized jpg) so that you can see the FOV and what you'll be up against with the editing. The ST102 is a lovely little scope and brilliant as an intro imaging scope but you'll soon notice the purple halos/ bloated stars/ and also you'll notice that only the stars in and close by to M42 are round the rest of the frame has field curvature and some rotation. These are the main draw backs of the ST's low end optics, and a reason why I crop my images like I do.

Also you'll notice that my framing was a bit off that night, but I was keen to get some guided imaging done and couldn't be arsed to re align the whole thing after finding the guide star on the webcams tiny FOV. The below was taking with the Canon 500D at prime focus, no filters, just a T adapter.

Stan

[malc-c]

The Lvi camera plugs into the control unit and then a cable comes out from that directly into the dual axis control unit via the st4 port

Like the attached sketch ?

You mentioned in a previous post that the camera lacks a USB port, and now you have stated that it connects directly to the autoguider box I'm concerned that it will not be possible to use the lvi camera directly with the PC? From what I've seen the camera connects to the autogiuder via a CAT5 cable, which is only compatible with ST4 ports... there appears to be no means of getting the video data stream from the camera into the PC

[Chris]

Hi Stan and QM, I'm back on for the guide mod! as I mentioned I sold my eq5 mount for 200 the other day, I've just reserved a rig on AstrobuyandSell, and I think I've got a pretty good deal black HEQ5 with f/5 200p plus electric focuser 50mm finder plus red dot and OTA carry case all for 420 pounds! I pick it up after work tomorrow, only about a 2 hour drive which isn't bad with the black HEQ5 I can do the st4 mod and add an ST80 guide scope and I recken the HEQ5 can take that? So my upgrade as cost me 220 pounds and I still have my Antares 80mm frac. Another option would be to sell my Antares and the 200p and this would pay for most of an ED80 I recken, any ideas? oh yes, I like your diagragm Stan you certainly put the effort in on this site

Edited January 29, 2012 by starfox

[malc-c]

Chris, sounds like a good deal... personally, assuming the black mount has the old analogue motors, I would sell the Antares frac and put it with any other cash you have and buy the synscan upgrade for the HEQ5. It will give you a far better platform for imaging

20min guided test exposure (so ignore the vignetting etc)

Edited January 29, 2012 by malc-c

[The_PSY3NTIST]

That's the one of the main reasons I was going for the evostar, think that's about f/10 if I remember right but no good for DSO im told. Ive read the slower it is the less you suffer. If only the ed100 was a bit cheaper I'm eagarly awaiting the return of the buy and sell section but not sure I can wait. Thanks for the info

[Chris]

Thanks for the feedback Malc that would be an amazing option which I am definately considering for sure, I would have a very similar setup to your good self then 20 min guide!!! thats amazing!! I would be over the Moon with your picture as a stacked and processed image, including the vignetting So the cheaper option of the ST4 mod, how do you think guiding would go with the existing servo motors after a mount overhaul of course?

[Chris]

Oh yes my apologies to Quatermass for taking the thread off track slightly

[Chris]

Hi Psy3ntist, so the evo and ED are they on Astrobuyandsell? in which case are you buying the Evostar? I have prevously owned the 120 Evostar about 7 years ago, I think it was f/8, very nice scope

[stan26]

Hi Stan and QM, I'm back on for the guide mod! as I mentioned I sold my eq5 mount for 200 the other day, I've just reserved a rig on AstrobuyandSell, and I think I've got a pretty good deal black HEQ5 with f/5 200p plus electric focuser 50mm finder plus red dot and OTA carry case all for 420 pounds! I pick it up after work tomorrow, only about a 2 hour drive which isn't bad with the black HEQ5 I can do the st4 mod and add an ST80 guide scope and I recken the HEQ5 can take that? So my upgrade as cost me 220 pounds and I still have my Antares 80mm frac. Another option would be to sell my Antares and the 200p and this would pay for most of an ED80 I recken, any ideas? oh yes, I like your diagragm Stan you certainly put the effort in on this site

Get in! your well on your way then Chris. That sounds like an amazing deal to me! The ED80 idea sounds good to me. That would make a really nice imaging rig, I'm jealous, wish I could afford an HEQ5 and ED80 That said I do have a £700 lens coming my way (for alot less) in the form of a Canon 200 L prime. I'm taking a step back in terms of focal length and going to concentrate more on widefield in the future. This I think is my preferred format of AP i think. My next step will be to mod another cam. I will then look out for either a TAL100 RS or ED100 to do galaxy and small nebula work, although the subs will be dramatically shorter.

Keep us up to date on the progress Chris!

Stan

Edited January 29, 2012 by stan26

[Chris]

Stan I like how your 5 min raw sub isn't that different to a recent final image of m42 for me, although I can now see that there is a difference between the "so called" semi Apo of mine and your ST102, I wasn't sure wether or not my Semi Apo was just an achro in shiny armer? but I can see that your have much more purple halo and bloating to contend with than me, which is a testiment to you processing skill as your final m42 image was so good

Edited January 29, 2012 by starfox

[Chris]

I know Stan, I can't believe it, I wont believe it fully untill its in my car travelling back with me down the A14!! I'm so excited I've been checking out Astrobuy for a while now, usually when I see something good its gone before you know it, so this time I struck like lightning

Good to see that you also have a nice prezzie on its way , I don't know what an L-prime lens is but I take it that 200 is the focal length and at 700 retail it must be quality! in which case you should be getting some cracking widefield pics if the skies out at mendlesham are as dark as I think they might be, but then again if you've still got the tripod you can stick it all the car with that setup and go to some really dark skies if you wish.

happy days,

now we just need Qm to have a spot of luck

Edited January 29, 2012 by starfox

[Quatermass]

Hi Guys back again boy this thread is getting bigger each day.

Malcom, yes this picture is exactly how the LVI connects and it wont be any good as a guide camera for PHD the only answer for the LVI is to get an HEQ5 to use it.

Its a good autoguider but not for this set up.

Its gone back in its box so Im not tempted to waste any more time fiddling around with it when I could be imaging again.

I am going to put in an order for the GPUSB adapter from optic star

and rig it up like stans diagram with a webcam.

NOTE STAN IS USING THE GPINT-PT ADAPTER AS SHOW IN HIS DIAGRAM THAT PLUGS INTO THE 24 PIN SOCKET ON HIS LAPTOP, THE GPUSB ADAPTER (MADE BY THE SAME PEOPLE) PLUGS INTO THE USB PORT, MOST NEW LAPTOPS WOULD BE USING USB PORT SO IT DEPEND ON YOUR LAPTOP AND WHAT IT HAS AVAILABLE 24 PIN OR USB.

And then when all that's done and I get a cloud free night see how we get on.

So until I get my hands on the adapter and webcam there's not much more I can do but I feel that this thread has been very valuable to people and when we get our systems all polished and working great I intend to put a full article about it on my blog and keep it there for others to learn from.

Thank you so much everyone for your help and feedback throughout all this it really is greatly appreciated.

My order for the GPUSB guide port adapter is going in tomorrow then the hunt for suitable webcam. I was hoping to avoid a lap top set up but now I couldnt care less if it required an elephant with a sore trunk to get a guiding set up

Hope all goes well with your new gear Chris

Might be helpful to list the prices for a few of the items above

Dual axis kit 95.89 Rother-field Optics

Guide port kit 12.60p Optic star

GPUSB adapter 79.80+5.00 pp Optic Star

Webcam between 10 - 30 quid depending where you get it.

Im doing this on an eq5 mount with a 200p will post more when I have the adapter and webcam Cheers QM:D

Edited January 29, 2012 by Quatermass

[Quatermass]

SEE THIS LINK FOR DETAILS ON THE PARTS FROM OPTIC STAR

Shoestring Astronomy GPUSB for auto-guiding.

[austen4]

Hello all,

Has anyone expiremented with the mod? If so what sort of subs were you getting?

Thanks

[austen4]

Quartermass thats a nice little conclusion of the thread. I will be hoping to do this next weekend when I order the parts. Thanks again for the thread, its great!