Binoculars For Every Use?

[Carbon Brush]

Most of my night sky observing has been with a telescope. Please keep reading though! I am after buying binoculars.

I have several pairs of old binoculars, all with their problems. Some have poor contrast, some poor collimation. You know the sort of thing when you cheap used, or inherit old ones. But by playing around with 10x21 through to 16x50 with various shades between, I have been able to specify what I am looking for in decent pair.

The new binoculars need to fulfill 4 functions.

1/ At home, or near home, night time look around the sky.

2/ At home, or on days out, a look at wildlife, particulalry birds.

3/ On holiday, daytime looking at wildlife.

4/ On holiday, night time to look around the sky.

As an all rounder for the above I have 10x50 in mind.

This being about the highest hand held mag and reasonable light gather.

But here are the problems...

My wife will be using these, so they must weigh nothing.

For the home birdwatching, we will need a close focus (5M?).

I like wide FOV and long ER eyepieces in scopes and bins.

We also will be taking them overseas so luggage weight and size in hand luggage are a consideration.

Our next overseas holiday will be in a warm and humid place. Fogging may be an issue.

After dropping, can they be collimated or are the prisms glued in?

I have not mentioned a budget. This is deliberate. I see no point in spending money (whether £10 or £100) on something that won't be up to the job. I am looking for a purchase that will last me a long time because it performs well, and is well built.

I am also not precluding used rather than new. Most of my astro kit was bought used and I am happy with it. I'm not one of these who has to have 'this year's model'.

Your thoughts and suggestions please...

David.

[Stargazing_Cliff]

best getting small pair of 10 x 50 like you mentioned or 12 x 32 shud be ideal for all them things you wanting to do with binoculars.

1/ At home, or near home, night time look around the sky.

2/ At home, or on days out, a look at wildlife, particulalry birds.

3/ On holiday, daytime looking at wildlife.

4/ On holiday, night time to look around the sky.

[Nibor]

It may be worth looking for a pair with a tripod adapter facility - I find the feature extremely valuable and often use mine on a lightweight photo tripod with a tilt and pan head - usually with the legs not splayed out - ie like a monopod.

I did treat myself to a pair of the following and with a wide field of view of 8.2 degrees are great for scanning the sky. They probably tick most of the boxes except the waterproof one!!

First Light Optics - Helios Naturesport-Plus 8x40 WA

They were a special SGL half price offer!!

http://stargazerslounge.com/sponsor-announcements-offers/170567-helios-naturesport-plus-8x40-wa-binoculars-half-price.html

Good luck with your search - I shall be interested in what you finally choose!!

[BinocularSky]

Your need for birding, lightness, wide field and anti-fogging leads me to suggest that you may be better off going for a good quality smaller binocular (say 8x40 or 8x42), possibly a roof prism. (Read this if you think roofs are unsuitable for astronomy.) Something like an Opticron Imagic BGA 8x42 will, I think, meet most of your requirements. It will be as bright as a a lesser quality 10x50; many of them are internally vignetted to 40-44mm equivalent anyway. If your budget cannot stretch to a roof, then a decent Porro like an Imagic TGA or, if you can stretch to it, an HR-WP 8x42 will serve you well. None of these is self-collimateable but they are also sufficiently well built that, unless you really clobber it, it's not going to need recollimating. (It's the cheap tat that needs recollimating if you look at it too hard!)

[Nibor]

David,

Some more food for thought!!.......Sky at Night Group Test

http://www.opticalhardware.co.uk/PDF/information_and_retail_price_lists/skyatnight1050grouptest.pdf

[Syntarsus]

If the Helios Naturesport is the same as the Opticron Aspheric 8 x 40 WA I have then at half price they're a great bargain (they look very similar). Unlike many porro prism designs they focus pretty close too - 2 metres if I remember correctly - which is why I bought mine. The Opticrons just won the Sky At Night best in their class award in November.

If you want to spend a bit more then a roof prism design might more suit your needs. The Nikon Monarchs get great reviews from the birding community and are one of the lightest bins around in that class - 610 grams for the 8 x 42 or the 10 x 42. They're over £200 though. Hawke Frontiers are similar I believe, a bit heavier and about £50 - £60 cheaper - or somewhat more expensive if you go for the ED (extra low dispersion glass) version.

I haven't tried any of these but in my total confusion about bins generally I've done a lot of research over the past 12 months.

[Carbon Brush]

Thanks everyone for your comments so far. It is looking like a 7 to 10 x 42 is going to be a good choice and if I work on spending up to, or around, the £200 mark, there should be something there.

I'm going to mull over everything that comes in over the weekend and hopefully make a decision from there. Assuming of course I don't need to lie down due to information overload!

Thanks again. David.

[Capricorn]

For general use I have 2 sets of Bushnell's.

The H2O 8x42, and the Nature View 8x42.

The Nature Views are the better optically, but the H2O's are good enough that I use them all the time.

The Nature Views are bigger (longer) but feel lighter, both also come in 10x42's. Thinking of getting a set myself.

Use the H2O's for general gazing at the sky.

Would suggest the Nature Views as probably suiting your needs to best, and they aren't expensive.

[BinocularSky]

It is looking like a 7 to 10 x 42 is going to be a good choice and if I work on spending up to, or around, the £200 mark, there should be something there.

Opticron Imagic TGA 8x42

[Carbon Brush]

At the weekend I dusted off my binocular assortment to work out just how good, or bad, some of them are.

Also to get a better feel for what I am going to buy. Though the Opticron 10x42 is very tempting.

Each pair was tried and graded for:...

1/ Eye relief allowing specs or not.

2/ Good contrast / little internal reflection / good coatings. Or a foggy view.

3/ Collimation. Day & night.

Binoculars that are a bit off collimation work in the day as your eyes pull the two images together.

But at night you get to see two Jupiters, or with really bad kit, two moons.

The test in the day was the sharp horizon at 2KM with a brick tower and electricity pylon.

The night test was a quick peek at Jupiter & Venus between the clouds.

The above simple tests were to allow a quick 'bin' or 'keep for now' decision.

It also gave a feel for magnification on the new (quality) pair when chosen.

A quick look at the sky confirmed x10 is the maximum for hand held use.

Here we go with the tests.

10 x 25 Exakta. Pocket size.

Think these were a freebie, or only a couple of quid with a large order from SnS.

Short eye relief. Good contrast. Good collimation.

So a good pair of bins for the money!

10 x 24 Jessops compact.

About 12 years old.

Short eye relief. Like looking out on a foggy day when viewed against others.

Good collimation was the only good feature.

Sent straight to the charity shop box.

7 x 50. Regent.

Really heavy. Bought a few years ago used from ebay, or somewhere equally reputable.

Short eye relief. Poor contrast. Taking out one objective shows problem is either eyepiece or prisms.

Collimation good.

Not in the bin yet. Check first if something internal needs cleaning.

7 x 50 Vanguard.

A lightweight pair bought to use for a quick look when out with a scope.

Long eye relief. Good contrast and good collimation.

A pair to keep.

12 x 50. Prinz.

About 45 years old and looking hammered.

Short eye relief. Lousy contrast - really foggy.

Another one for the charity shop box.

16 x 50. Bresser.

Around three years old. Been soaked once. A bit of watermarking on the optics.

Short eye relief. Good contrast despite watermarked optics.

Collimation OK for day use, but not good enough for night use.

Probably leave these lying around for a quick look at birds in the garden.

[Carbon Brush]

Hi everyone.

A bit of an update.

'She who must be obeyed' has made a comment. The 16x50 bins are far too big and heavy (790g). Also they don't focus close enough for use from the kitchen to the garden bird feeders.

So I'm looking at getting the Opticron HR WP 10x25 for the missus.

First Light Optics - Opticron HR WP Compact Porroprism

Would these do instead of flowers for Feb 14th?

I did wonder about the different Opticron offerings in this size. I think the factor that pushed me to these is the ability to drop them in a puddle or leave in a wet coat pocket. OK the outside of the lenses may watermark, but they won't be foggy inside.

Getting the compact should make it easier to choose a larger 'out and about' or 'holiday' set as I am more likely to be carrying and using.

Any comments on the choice are most welcome.

David.

[Zul]

I can recommend you Celestron UpClose 10x50 they have 7 degree FOV and they weight just about 700g.

[Nibor]

David,

Do give these some serious consideration:-

First Light Optics - Helios Naturesport-Plus 8x40 WA

I have found them really great with a 8.2 degree field of view for "sky surfing" and my O/H likes them for the garden birds - and less than 700 gr.

Good eye relief as well!!!

[Syntarsus]

So I'm looking at getting the Opticron HR WP 10x25 for the missus.

First Light Optics - Opticron HR WP Compact Porroprism

Would these do instead of flowers for Feb 14th?

Nah. Don't do it. I think you really want bigger objective lens especially if you want to look at the night sky. If you want something lighter than the typical 10x50 porro then go for a 10x42 roof prism. Maybe something like these. 600 grams should be light enough for anyone and the bigger objectives improve light and all round quality. Personally I always find it better to rest one's elbows on something where possible (even your knees) which helps steady any binocular. This make weight less of an issue.

These Opticron's I have seem very good for £69, weigh only 700 grams and just won an award. Certainly no problem seeing things like Jupiter's moons. They're not waterproof but unless you intend using them in the rain, personally I think I'd rather my ££ go into optical quality rather than waterproofing.

[astronymonkey]

The hawke frontier ED range has bee getting some great reviews and can focus as close as 2m !

see: Hawke Frontier ED 8x43 binocular | Reviews | Birdwatch Magazine

FLO now stocks these (reduced to £245 at the moment )and are available in 8 or 10 x magnification.

First Light Optics - Hawke Frontier ED Binocular

Ive not tried these but the ED lenses do make a difference as I tried some RSPB bins in normal and ED format side by side and they seemed sharper and brighter with a great field of view.

Astronymonkey

[Nibor]

Nah. Don't do it. I think you really want bigger objective lens especially if you want to look at the night sky. If you want something lighter than the typical 10x50 porro then go for a 10x42 roof prism. Maybe something like these. 600 grams should be light enough for anyone and the bigger objectives improve light and all round quality. Personally I always find it better to rest one's elbows on something where possible (even your knees) which helps steady any binocular. This make weight less of an issue.

These Opticron's I have seem very good for £69, weigh only 700 grams and just won an award. Certainly no problem seeing things like Jupiter's moons. They're not waterproof but unless you intend using them in the rain, personally I think I'd rather my ££ go into optical quality rather than waterproofing.

The Opticrons seem to be the same as the Helios Naturewatch 8 x 40 wide angles I have and as an all round bino I think to buy a pair would be money well spent!!

[Carbon Brush]

Thanks everyone.

I think I may not have made clear that the goalposts have moved a little my original post. By getting the Opticron compact bins for the missus, I don't have the same size and weight constraints on a second pair that I end up carrying about.

So the second pair (yet to be chosen) can be 700g or 800g and chosen to have plenty of light gather, and good optics.

Ordering the compact bins from FLO today. One decision out of the way.

David.

[Veracocha]

The hawke frontier ED range has bee getting some great reviews and can focus as close as 2m !

see: Hawke Frontier ED 8x43 binocular | Reviews | Birdwatch Magazine

FLO now stocks these (reduced to £245 at the moment )and are available in 8 or 10 x magnification.

First Light Optics - Hawke Frontier ED Binocular

Ive not tried these but the ED lenses do make a difference as I tried some RSPB bins in normal and ED format side by side and they seemed sharper and brighter with a great field of view.

Astronymonkey

I have used these and can testify that for the £200 that these now cost there is nothing comes close. I have used every derivitive of the frontier ed's and settled on the 10x42. For birding they are superb (my main use) and for astronomy they blow the typical cheapies out of the water. I have just sold my Swarovski EL Swarovision (£1685.00) because the Frontier's provide me with a view that compare with them but for £1400 less.

[Carbon Brush]

An update for everyone.

Still awaiting delivery of the Opticron compacts for the missus, ordered Feb 1st.

Most unlike FLO to not ship, or keep the customer informed.

Thanks Veracocha for the Hawke report. I had been wondering about the 10x43 variant. I have asked FLO for availability.

David.

[Carbon Brush]

At last the Opticron 10x26 bins have arrived!

FLO blamed Prof Cox and the flu for the 2 weeks delay.

Daylight trial first. Really nice clear image, as you would expect. Smooth focus with plenty of movement to effect changes. Twist up eyecups work well and give good adaptation for viewing with/without specs. Focus easily down to 4M. Comfortable feel and easy grip on the rubbery body. Just as important. She who must be obeyed thinks they look good.

Not tried throwing them into a puddle to check the waterproof construction and nitrogen fill.

Night time trial. Though they were not bought for this use. Yes it was cloudy. What else did you expect with new kit? A quick peek at M45 was very pleasant. Next time out I might try M42 and Jupiter/moons. These bins absolutely thrash the similar size Jessops 'foggy day' model that we recently consigned to the charity shop bag.

Conclusion. For the garden, and days out shoved in a pocket, and on holiday, these are going to be really good. Money well spent. For serious night use, they are of course too small.

If I was to make a criticism, it is that the dioptre adjustement is not marked or calibrated. A minor point I know. But if you swap between users, it is nice to be able to effect a quick change and hand over correctly set bins. Especially when handing over to a user who is not familiar with binos.

Now that the compact bins are here, I can put my thoughts back in the direction of the 'night' binoculars. 10x42 or 43 or 50. I don't have the same weight issues as the compact set, so that gives me freedom. My heart is leaning towards the Opticron (<£200) or Hawke (>£200) models, mentioned in earlier posts. My wallet keeps looking at the £65 Celestrons at FLO! Then my head reminds of the (awful quality) Celestron scopes I saw recently in a branch of PC World, putting £65 firmly in it's place.

Decisions, decisions, decisions.

[Psychobilly]

I think the BA&S range may be replacing the Hawkes at FLO.. I recently bought a pair of the Hawke Prostalk ED 8x56's not he smallest or lightest bins but very pleased with them...

I also picked up one of the 15x50 Hawke Naturetrek monoculars that FLO were selling off...cheap enough to leave in the car or coat pocket...

Peter...

[Carbon Brush]

Hi everyone.

I have been spending again on the bigger binos. I eventually went for 10x50.

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/porroprism/opticron-imagic-tga-wp-porro-prism.html

Having been very impressed by the Opticron compact, I thought that staying with the same manufacturer should be risk free.

The wonderful April weather means that a proper night test has not yet been possible and really an assessment of the waterproof/fogproof claims would have been easier.

Limited assessment observations so far...

Daylight/dusk trials only. Really nice bright, clear, sharp, image, as you would expect. In low light the bigger objective (against the 10x26) allows you to keep bright colours for longer.

Smooth focus with plenty of movement to effect changes.

The twist up eyecups work well and give good adaptation for viewing with/without specs. Not quite as smooth action as on the smaller binos, but effective and not sloppy or falling off.

Comfortable feel and easy grip on the rubbery body.

There are only two criticism so far.

First the dioptre adjustement is not marked or calibrated and is very stiff. Almost a 'water pump pliers' to alter. But hopefully not often used.

Second. There are 'proper' lens caps for the objectives. But one these daft one piece covers for both eyepeices. Unless you move the pupil distance to grip, it falls off. When you pick up your binos, it is nice to have them ready to use, rather than having to reset.

I did ask and FLO do not have any proper dust caps that fit. A significant error by Opticron, in my opinion.

One day, eventually, I hope to be able to give a report on the night time performance. But so far they are leaving all the other (much cheaper) binos that I have far far behind.