Celestron 8SE vs. Canon IS binoculars?

[aguayo]

Hello,

Quick intro: I just joined the forum and I live in California, USA, and I am returning to my childhood love of astronomy after a hiatus of a couple of decades.

I hesitate starting yet another "newbie-asking-what-to-buy" thread, but I searched previous posts and I don't think I saw this specific question asked, so here goes:

I am trying to decide between buying the Celestron NexStar 8SE (currently $1000 instead of $1200 until the end of the year) or the Canon 15x50 (or 18x50) Image Stabilized Binoculars (about $1300-$1400). I want to look at the Moon and planets, find Messier objects, and in general, learn/view the sky throughout the seasons of the year.

I am leaning towards the telescope because:

- It's easier to share viewfinder time with family/friends to look at certain objects.

- There's more room to grow into a telescope with various eyepieces, accessories, etc as my interest/experience increases.

- I can get into astrophotography with my DSLR.

I am leaning away from the telescope because:

- Entering time/date/location and aligning it each time look like a pain.

- It's bulky/takes up a lot of space to store in a small house and it's a lot to carry outside to set up each time.

- Honestly, I kind of feel like I am "cheating" using the goto. I am sure the goto will let me find things easier/faster, but I also want to get better at finding things in the sky the old-fashioned way and learning to star-hop to find objects.

I am leaning towards the binoculars because:

- They are more "grab and go" - I can afford to be more spontaneous about viewing the sky because I don't have to carry a 'scope, tripod, mount, power, etc. outside.

- I hope the IS will let me get away with using them without a tripod. Is this true? This is one of the reasons I would go with these binoculars instead a larger magnification: a tripod is a hassle and will ruin any spontaneous viewing sessions.

I am leaning away from the binoculars because:

- They are very, very hard to use to show family/friends a particular view of an object.

- Even though these are not the biggest binoculars out there, I imagine all binoculars are hard to support/view for a long time without tripod.

- Even with the IS, I wonder if handshake will drive me crazy.

What do you recommend? I have heard it's good to start with binoculars and then graduate to a telescope when you know the sky better and know what kinds of astronomy you are into. Is this still true?

I wear eyeglasses if that matters. I would use the device mostly in the suburbs, not the country. Thank you for any tips, advice, suggestions!

Ernest

[John]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

It's difficult to know how to compare the options you have set out because they are so far apart in terms of application and potential.

While having a nice pair of binoculars (I use non-IS 10x50's which cost about £20 used) is good fun on some nights, an 8" scope, whether fitted with GOTO or not, is an entirely different prospect and can deliver some seriously nice views or a wide range of astronomical objects that the binoculars won't even begin to compete with.

I'll be interested to hear other views on this one - it's not often we get asked to compare and contrast such vastly different options.

[robbieince]

Hi Ernest and welcome to the forum.

Now that's a comparison you don't see every day.

My first real scope was a meade lx90 8 inch - similar to your first option and i currently own a pair of the 15x50 is canons.

They are miles apart in capability as you already seem to know.

As a piece of astronomy kit the scope is by far more capable and will reward you with more detail and more wow factor.

The scope will allow you to get excellent views of planets , the moon and most dsos but will require the investment of time and eyepieces to get the best out of it. It will also start you off on the slippery slope of astrophotography should you want to

The bins are brilliant for a quick trawl through the night sky when there are patchy clouds around or you just have a few minutes outside. You definitely do not need a tripod The is does allow you to see more than non is bins, and are much more comfortable to use.

They make globs, open clusters and star fields looks like velvet encrusted with diamonds but you still won't see many dsos - I have seen the brighter bigger ones in mine many times but still am eluded by things such as the veil or the north American nebulae.

You can learn the night sky with the bins rather than use goto but I think you will be more limited by aperture than you think - especially from the suburbs.

All in all they do very different things, both are very good but I would recommend the scope first.

if its quick and cheerful astronomy that you want That teaches you the night sky without relying in computers then invest in a manual 10 inch dob. It will be out under the skies and active in moments and will let you see all the faint fuzzies too.

Regards

Rob

[Dunkster]

In favour of the 8SE.... $1000 is a great bargain for such a scope, and the time/date thing isn't a big deal, it takes only seconds, but it must be accurate. You can supplement it with the sky sync gps module (a bit pricey for just entering in the time/date). The 8SE is surprisingly compact and portable for such a capable scope (although arguably no more or less so than an 8-inch dob).

The goto... takes about 10 mins to get it aligned (in my experience) if you want the maximum accuracy. You can also just do a 'solar system align' which I've used for tracking Jupiter for an hour or more. Alternatively, of course, you can just use the direction buttons to slew it where you want it to go. But there's no pushing involved (for better or worse).

Nothing quite matches binoculars for storage space and portability, but those are some expensive binoculars

Why not grab a $30 pair of 10x50 binoculars and try it for a week or so, then after having looked around the pros/cons may make it a little easier to decide?

[Doug]

Hi Ernest

A warm welcome to the SGL, I must agree with everything Rob says

I have the same sent up LX90 and the Canon IS 15x50 you can do alot more with the scope if you are thinking of doing Astro photgraphy in the future you may like to look at a Newtonian scope for Astro photgraphy

Doug

UK

[bish]

Scope and cheap pair of bins is the way to go.

[cantab]

You could get the scope, a decent pair of 10x50 binoculars, and a parallelogram mount or mirror mount for the bins, all for less than the cost of those canon IS bins.

When I use my binoculars, if I want to use the tripod it takes a couple of minutes to grab it, open it, and set it down. Then if I don't like messing with it, I can have the bins off it for handholding in ten seconds. Gathering up my star charts and notebook has given me more hassle when I've left the things scattered about the house.

[aguayo]

Thank you, all, for the very warm welcomes and great advice and suggestions! Much appreciated!

John and robbieince: yes, I now realize how these two tools are very different beasts. Thank you for helping me see the error of my ways and for giving me a new way to look at the capabilities (and limitations) of the telescope and binoculars!

Dunkster: Thanks for the info about alignment and (ease of) use of the scope. Yeah, the price of the IS binoculars is kind of ridiculous. I like your idea of getting a simple/cheap pair of binoculars for the times when I need some quick views of the sky.

Doug: Thanks, I will look at Newtonian scopes too as I do want to do photography, but I also like the 8SE just to get started and appreciate what I see with my own eyes for now. I know the 8SE is limited in astrophotography ability, but if I get the discontinued wedge maybe I can get my feet wet.

bish and cantab: Yes, I think getting the scope and a cheap pair of binoculars is probably what I will do. It's the best of both worlds: I have the capability of the scope, but ease of getting quick (limited) looks with the bins. I would really hate to blow my entire budget on the the fancy IS bins and later discover I am missing out on what a scope could do for me. I would be "stuck" with only the bins instead of having and using both tools as needed.

Also, after thinking about it more, it's really important that I am able to easily share views with family and friends - a telescope will do that far better than only having (super-expensive) binoculars.

Thank you, all!!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I agree with the other comments. The 8SE is the way to go. 15x50 bins are not ideal for astronomy, especially for that kind of money. A good pair of 15x70 (such as Orion Resolux) can be had for a fraction of that cost. They can be hand-held but building your own parallellogram mount is not hard.

[aguayo]

Thanks, Michael!

As for bins, I see a few of you recommending 10x50 and some mentioning 15x70. I am leaning towards the latter, but I read that 10 power is pushing hand-holdability. Have you seen that in your experience?

Thanks again.

[swamp thing]

You could get the scope, a decent pair of 10x50 binoculars, and a parallelogram mount or mirror mount for the bins, all for less than the cost of those canon IS bins.

When I use my binoculars, if I want to use the tripod it takes a couple of minutes to grab it, open it, and set it down. Then if I don't like messing with it, I can have the bins off it for handholding in ten seconds. Gathering up my star charts and notebook has given me more hassle when I've left the things scattered about the house.

That's how I would do it. Get both the scope and some 15x70 bins and a parallelogram mount.

Best of everything that way.

Not sure how the goto mount works on the scope but I should imagine you can push the scope to targets if you wish to find them yourself.

I'm sure some 8SE owners could fill in the details.

Regards Steve

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Thanks, Michael!

As for bins, I see a few of you recommending 10x50 and some mentioning 15x70. I am leaning towards the latter, but I read that 10 power is pushing hand-holdability. Have you seen that in your experience?

Thanks again.

I find 10x50 easy and can hand hold 15x70s, but a parallellogram mount helps a lot. Just using a reclining chair to observe helps too. I have even used the roof of the car as a support. My mount can be seen here:

http://stargazerslounge.com/diy-astronomer/154871-diy-parallelogram-mount-made-my-15x70s.html

In practice I use the 15x70 much more than the 10x50, and usually use them hand-held. If I have time to set up the parallellogram mount I usually have time to set up one of the scopes. The mount is very handy to share views, however.

[steppenwolf]

I have used the Canon IS binoculars and was blown away by how good they were but sadly only for a small range of objects which included Jupiter and its moons, the Moon, some open clusters, globular clusters and asterisms like the Coathanger but it then ran out of steam.

The 8SE is a cracking little 'scope which will allow you to view a huge range of objects and involve your family and friends in the experience. A Dobsonian would give even better views for the money and encourage you to learn the night sky at the same time. The only caveat to the purchase of these two types of telescope is that neither is really suitable for imaging deep sky objects but that could come later with a second purchase of a different type of mount.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I have used the Canon IS binoculars and was blown away by how good they were but sadly only for a small range of objects which included Jupiter and its moons, the Moon, some open clusters, globular clusters and asterisms like the Coathanger but it then ran out of steam.

The 8SE is a cracking little 'scope which will allow you to view a huge range of objects and involve your family and friends in the experience. A Dobsonian would give even better views for the money and encourage you to learn the night sky at the same time. The only caveat to the purchase of these two types of telescope is that neither is really suitable for imaging deep sky objects but that could come later with a second purchase of a different type of mount.

For imaging DSOs you seed something different altogether. A fast refractor on an EQ mount is easiest. I have done some stuff with my GP-C8 (same optical tube assembly as 8SE, but on a Vixen Great Polaris EQ mount) with a focal reducer, but is was quite hard. You need a more hefty mount for real DSO work (photographically, visually the 8SE and GP-C8 are great). Regarding a Dob: great bang for your buck, but less compact. I could take my C8 to see the solar eclipse in 1999 in a Peugeot 106 (with all the camping gear) without annoying the missus.

[aguayo]

swamp thing and Michael: thanks for the tip about getting a parallelogram mount. I will have to look into that, but I am leaning towards avoiding all mounts for solo or quick sky-viewing and using a telescope for longer or group viewing. I appreciate the suggestion though as I was not familiar with those kinds of mounts. Maybe when I graduate to giant bins!

steppenwolf: yeah, I think I am definitely not getting the Canon IS bins at this point. Don't want to later wish I got more for that money. Funny that you should mention getting a Dob instead of the 8SE. After doing a lot of thinking, I am actually leaning in that direction now.

My current plan: first, get a pair of bins, learn the sky a bit that way and then re-assess my scope needs. (I am okay passing on the 8SE special pricing right now.) After that, probably get a nice "manual" telescope (perhaps a Dob) instead of a go-to one to get more bang for my buck and keep learning the sky that way. Then, down the line from that I can think about what kind of scope I want for astrophotography and/or see if I want a go-to at that point.

That being said, I am trying to decide between these bins: Celestron 10x50 or Meade 9x63. (I was also thinking about the 15x70's but I now see how narrow a field of view they are and how heavy they are to hand-hold.) I am leaning towards the 9x63 because they seem like a good combination of wide view for learning the sky/star-hopping and big aperture without getting as big/heavy as the 15x70's (albeit only 4 oz lighter). The one concern I have is the 9x63 are 44oz whereas the 10x50 are only 25oz.

Is the added light-gathering capability of the 9x63 worth the 1.76x weight difference over the 10x50 considering I want to do hand-held viewing?

Thanks again for all the help!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I would go for the 10x50. The 9x63 is a roof-prism type, which tend to be lower quality, unless you pay a lot more than for the simpler porro-prism type. The 9x63 has a 7mm exit pupil, which gives a paler sky background. Besides, it may mean that part of the light falls outside your own pupils, in particular if you are over 35-40.

[aguayo]

Thanks, Michael!

[zach777]

I'm also in California and have both (smaller binoculars, IS-10x30).

Apples and oranges, I'd get the Celestron first, then the binoculars when the finances fit them. I'd hate to do with out either, though.

Look at the smaller Canon IS 10x30, the stabilization makes all the difference in the world, and when you want to see something a bit brighter, slew away.