Shopping for a 120 ED Apo

[philming]

Hi all !

So I'm back into shopping for a 120 like apochrimatic refractor.

I am the happy owner of an Equinox 80ED, guided with a Synguider with a regular 80/400, double plate and the whole setup sitting on an EQ6.

My idea at first was to go for an Equinox 120. Checking various sites, I realize SW has just released the Esprit eerie. OK they are more expensive, but well. Hence my post.

What more will I be able to achieve with an Esprit that I couldn't do with an Equinox ?

Does the price difference really get justified ?

I'm into astrophotography, and rarely ever do any visual (except if for some reason my EOS decides to drop dead on me, or any other similar drawbacks that will make shooting impossible. Then I turn to visual.

So any infos on these new Esprit ?

Thanx for your input !

[ollypenrice]

You'd need to wait a while till some images get posted in order to have an answer. Nik has posted a core of Andromeda on the PAIG forum. I've used the Altair Astro 115 and found it exceptional. The ED120 also seems to do well but I haven't ever tried one myself.

You don't mention budget. TEC? Takahashi?

Olly

[philming]

No as I said, I was considering an Equinox 120 at first. But since it is rumored that the Esprit line is supposed to compete heavily, if not do better, than big brands like Taka or Vixen, at a far lower price... (Don't remember where I read that, might have been on Cloudy Nights. I think some guy called Markus, very respected astronomer afaik or understand said that... Then I might go bananas and get the Esprit. If the price is really justified...

[Marmite]

The Equinox is an awesome scope. But it's a doublet and the Espirit is a triplet. Unless Synta have stuffed up the optics the triplet will do better even than the Equinox. Don't get me wrong, the Equinox and most other Synta 120EDs are some of the best bang for buck around these days but a good triplet will b est a good doublet.

The rumours are that Zeiss did the Espirit optics with or for Synta so they are expected to be great, but no one I've heard of yet has one or tested them, so the jury remains out. I can't imagine them being anything less than very good however. But they aren't cheap and I'm not sure how they'd stack up against the likes of a Tak TOA. It's hard to best a Takahashi at any time, even with the price differences factored in.

Maybe pick up a used 120ED at a good price and wait until the verdicts come back on the Espirit. Chances are the prices will drop quite a bit by the time you're ready to commit to an expensive triplet, and in the meantime you'll have the joy of using one of the best biiger aperture doublets around today. (Google for images taken by people using the Equinox or any other Synta 120ED. Brilliant stuff!)

[philming]

Is the fact that Zeiss did the optics mean anything ? Shott or Ohara have a great reputation too don't they ?

[Marmite]

Sorry I mean that Zeiss made the optics, not supplied the glass, which is probably FPL53.

[dmahon]

The Equinox is a little over £1.3k

The Esprit is a little over £2.6k

but if you want to go the whole hog, if you take a trip to the states you can buy a Takahashi FSQ-106EDX for a little over £3.2k

[philming]

That's a stretch ;-)

Actually, I think I've narrowed my choice down to either the Equinox 120, Or the TS 120/900 triplet.

Has anyone had feedback on TS's instruments ? They look a lot like the Megrez I think, and since I'm pretty sure TS doesn't make their own instruments...

Whatsmore, there is the 127 triplet at TS as well. Cheaper than the 120. Strange isn't it ?

So anyone has infos on TS's scopes ? Cant seem to find any review around...

TS 120/900

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p4688_TS-120-900mm-APO-refractor---3--Linear-Power-focuser---case.html

TS 127/952

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/de/info/p1328_.html

Equinox 120

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p1070_Skywatcher-Equinox-120-PRO---120-900mm-APO----aluminium-case.html

[ollypenrice]

I had a Meade 127 triplet and found it very good visually and good photographically on DS obects. It did suffer from significant bloat on blue stars and did not produce the good star colour, generally, of the best apos. However, comparing galaxy images between that and the TEC which replaced it shows that the budget 127 was no slouch. I think the Altair 115 is in a different league altogether, however. I've said before that it runs the TEC140 quite close optically, in imaging applications.

To pick up on Marmite's point, the Tak FSQ85ED is considerably cheaper than the 106 and has some advantages, notably holding focus better across temperature change. It is easy to dismiss it as ludicrously expensive for an 85mm scope but its performance is simply stunning, as close to perfect as I ever expect to get. And it's fast. F3.9 with reducer...

Olly

[philming]

Yes but I already have a 80ED Equinox. I'm looking for bigger now...

[ollypenrice]

Yes but I already have a 80ED Equinox. I'm looking for bigger now...

I'd forgotten that, sorry! I'd keep an eye out for second hand while you're deliberating. My TEC turned up in the UK at well below new price (about 2/3rds) and scopes are out there.

Olly

[nightfisher]

there is a takahashi 128 on fleabay at present.........no not mine

[philming]

Just a question. Does it actually make any sense for me to go for a 120ED refractor, since I already have a 80 ? Just some sort of last minute doubt.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to go for some sort of RC 200 like the VM200 from Vixen i.e. ?

Some folks on a french forum where I'm quiet active tend to suggest that.

Just know that :

• I really like refractors. Don't know why, I think they're just gorgeous

• They don't need colimation and are way easier to handle regarding dew i.e.

• It seems to me they take up less space in the trunk of my car once in their box.

I allready have 3 cases (Equinox 80, guiding gear, misc gear with bino etc.)

• The goal was to shoot on one instrument and gide with the other (80 and 120 in parallel on a double plate). Going for a RC would make me add gear to the setup, requiring me to keep mu 80/400. I'm guiding with a Synguider btw.

Does it all make sense ?

Oh and I'm shooting with a Baaderized 450D for now. I'm very proud and happy NOT to have a laptop on location when I'm shooting. Just set the stuff up, and here's your Uncle. I can go for coffee, watch a movie whatever, the intervalometer does the rest and the Synguider NEVER actually lost its star on me, except if some cloud passed by.

[Earl]

Scopes n Skies have 2 120's in there bargain zone, might be worth a look

[Marmite]

Just a question. Does it actually make any sense for me to go for a 120ED refractor, since I already have a 80 ? Just some sort of last minute doubt.

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to go for some sort of RC 200 like the VM200 from Vixen i.e. ?

Some folks on a french forum where I'm quiet active tend to suggest that.

Just know that :

• I really like refractors. Don't know why, I think they're just gorgeous

• They don't need colimation and are way easier to handle regarding dew i.e.

• It seems to me they take up less space in the trunk of my car once in their box.

I allready have 3 cases (Equinox 80, guiding gear, misc gear with bino etc.)

• The goal was to shoot on one instrument and gide with the other (80 and 120 in parallel on a double plate). Going for a RC would make me add gear to the setup, requiring me to keep mu 80/400. I'm guiding with a Synguider btw.

Does it all make sense ?

Oh and I'm shooting with a Baaderized 450D for now. I'm very proud and happy NOT to have a laptop on location when I'm shooting. Just set the stuff up, and here's your Uncle. I can go for coffee, watch a movie whatever, the intervalometer does the rest and the Synguider NEVER actually lost its star on me, except if some cloud passed by.

All I can add is something I said earlier, which is that the 120ED optics are possibly the best bang for buck around right now. The other that comes to mind is the MN190 (Mak Newt). Both of these scopes are punching miles above their weight. Some of the finest amateur images I've seen lately have been captured with one or the other.

Having said that, you should get the scope you want to get, and if that's a Vixen, or a GSO RC, or whatever, do it and be happy, because any scope is better than no scope, and we are incredibly spoiled for choice these days.

But whatever you get you're going to need a truck and trailer to haul all the extra kit about with you, trust me. It's like coathangers.

Oh and the people suggesting you buy an FSQ aren't doing it to annoy you: the FSQ85 or 106 is as good as it gets when you're talking wide field AP. There's simply no question of that. If I was offered either of them, or a Tak Epsilon or TOA, I reckon I'd explode trying to decide, but probably one of the FSQ's would be my choice.

The great news is that with the quality and price of astro gear now it's become blumming hard to get it wrong.

[ollypenrice]

If you are shooting with a DSLR then a fast f ratio matters a lot and will have a big impact on picture quality. The F-reduced Skywatcher has things going for it being the fastest. On the other hand you are not gaining a lot of focal length.

The RC is very slow which is bad news for uncooled cameras. On the other hand you get a real change of FL for getting into the galaxies etc. My focal length jump is 328/450 to 980 (FSQ to TEC140.)

One thing I like to do is add high res data from the TEC to widefield from the Tak using Registar. You wouldn't be able to do this if one image had diffraction spikes and the other didn't. I'd see that as a real loss.

Here are examples. The widefield is at 450mm FL and the close up at 980mm. In the widefield the close up has been merged in.

Olly

Edit, the resolution looks awful on here. Don't know why! But it makes the point, I hope.

Which French forum do you frequent? I post on Webastro.

[philming]

Yes webastro ;-)

[cs1cjc]

Detailed measurements of some relevant telescopes here:

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