Just starting out and have a few 'scope questions

[AlistairHowie]

Hello – this is my first post having been lurking for the last week or so as I try and research my first telescope purchase. I’ve looked hard at a number of great sites like telescopenerd, starizona and of course this one, and think I’ve come to the point where I now need to ask some questions.

I am in the fortunate position of having a budget of somewhere between £1,500 and £2,000 to get going in this hobby. My interests are all types of viewing – planets, DSO, etc – and also starting some photography at some point after I inevitably discover that my wife doesn’t want to traipse around in the cold looking through a scope or wait for me to set it up!

I will be able to do some observing from my garden, but buildings, lights and trees will mean that I will have to find a spot a little way out of Harpenden in Hertfordshire where I live, to do this hobby properly. With this, my budget and my goals in mind, I’m looking at an 8” SC telescope ... or possible 9.25” depending on the cost of all the other accessories I will need to buy (I’ve got aperture fever already J).

Being completely new to the hobby, I’m obviously very attracted to something like the Celstron CPC 800 or 925 GPS models because of the ease of set-up. But I’m conscious that for photography I’ll need a wedge or preferably an equatorial mount. So my other option is something like the Celestron 9 1/4-SGT XLT on a CG-5GT mount. Sorry for the long winded background, but now to my questions ...

1) I’d love the set-up and simplicity of the altaz mount on the CPC models, and the potential to “upgrade” to a wedge for photography, but I have a couple of concerns ...

a. If I buy a CPC model, the altaz mount is integral to the OTA, right? I can’t then upgrade to a GEM later, so I need to make this mount decision from the outset?

b. Also, how far can a wedge take you in photography? I’ve never done any astro photography at all. I know it’s a steep learning curve, but will it take me a “reasonable” way (however defined) into this aspect of the hobby before I get frustrated at the quality of pics i.e. how fit for purpose are the tripod, mount and wedge for photography?

2) With the CG-5GT mount, I know the set-up is harder. But for a beginner, is this a complete no-no, or just something I can learn myself via youtube and forums like this, and then when all is said and done, it’s straightforward and takes, what, 10 minutes to do each time? Longer?

3) How good is the CG-5GT mount in terms of stability with an 8” or 9 1/4” OTA? Is it marginal or comfortably up to the job? Can you suggest any others that might be better and won’t break the bank if it has issues?

4) Looking at weights, the Celestron 9 1/4-sgt XLT OTA is 9kg, and the CG-5GT mount 19kg. The equivalent CPC 925 GPS scope seems to weigh 14kg, and the tripod and mount about 12kg. Why does the 925 GPS OTA weight 5 kg more? Is that because the fork arms are attached to it and not included in the mount weight?

5) Lastly, are the Celestron models above comparable to the Mead products like the LX90 ACF? Is any one brand better than the other, either on product or customer service?

6) What else do I need to buy as a basic starting level .... not doing photography just now ... a barlow? A focal reducer (or is that only for photography)? What about a power source?

Many thanks for your patience and help.

[M4lcs67]

Hello,

I am relatively new to astronomy (started in April/May) and have a pretty good scope for now, but I will probably upgrade it at some point. You on the other hand have a very large budget and reading your post you seem to have done quite alot of homework already.

I would however think about going out and spending such a large sum to start with on a hobby that you may not get fully into to start with.

Most people on SGL would recommend that you find an Astronomy society near you and go a few times. Speak to the members and look through a few of their scopes before committing yourself.

There will be many peeople on SGL who will put their opinions as to how you should spend your money. Alot of them will give invaluable advice. I on the other hand can give my two pence from a newbies perspective rather than an experienced stargazer who would be able to give far better advice than me as far as technical specs of various scopes is concerned.

I doesn't matter how much you spend. Whether it is £400 or two grand. You need to be happy with what you have got otherwise you may not get the full enjoyment out of it.

There is a saying on SGL. The best scope to get is the one you will use the most.

[AlistairHowie]

Hi Malc, thanks for the reply. I agree completely with the approach of looking through a few scopes first - I'm pencilled in to visit Herfordshire Astronomy Group next month to do just that. Was just trying to get some things straight in my head first!

I've actually just done a little more research and now heard about the new Meade LX80 series, which has really thrown a spanner in the works - apparently a combined GEM and altaz mount in one!

[M4lcs67]

Hi again Alistair.

You are like me in as much as I like to get the research in first. I find it very enjoyable as well.

Astronomy is just like every other hobby in a way. There is just too much choice sometimes. Coupled with everyone having such differing opinions, it can be impossible to make a choice in a lot of ways.

Like I said I am a newbie and the peeps on SGL have put me right loads of times. Along with my scope I have been buying astronomy books at an allarming rate as well. What is that saying. "Knowledge is power". I am loving it and you will too. I should have done it years ago.

[rfdesigner]

Welcome to SGL and the hobby.

There are a million different preferences and a choice of kit for each preference.

As to astrophotography, it depends on what you want to image.. planets require different kit to deep sky. Arguably the planets kit is cheaper, as you only need a small field of view and don't need a cooled camera, you just need something that's sensitive and high speed.

When it comes to spending money for Deep sky imaging.. the sky's the limit, you will need:

1. A good equitorial mount, either 'German' or a fork on a wedge.. the German is usually preferred.

2. A scope with appropriate aperture and focal length.. the SCTs can be a tad long. Fast Newts and refractors are quite popular.

3. Either off-axis-guider or a guide scope, securly fastened together.

4. Guide camera.

5. Imaging camera.

6. Software for image capture and processing (several freeware options available)

I would argue the order above is the proper order of importance. A poor mount and it doesn't matter what you spend elsewhere you're in trouble, so even though you're not imaging on day 1, it's worth getting an imaging capable mount.

Generally the cost breakdown would probably be 1/3rd:mount, 1/3rd: main scope, 1/3rd camera/guider etc... the figures are not hard and fast just a general guide.

Derek

[sabana]

Think about trudging out to a dark sky spot in mid winter. Cold/maybe already tired from work and having to spend 30/60 mins setting up the rig. How will you cope?

I suggest a quick and easy set up to start with to test the water.

An 8" SCT goto on allt-az. Or a 8" Dobsonian are great for speed of set up.

If you get hooked then maybe start thinking about an equatorial mount later on.

[AlistairHowie]

Thanks, Derek. Wow, I'm overwhelmed!! Better start with baby steps first!

Sabana, am inclined to agree with the 8" SCT approach, but the altaz mount is integral to the OTA isn't it, or can I just swap it out for an eq mount later on?

[malc-c]

Hello – this is my first post having been lurking for the last week or so as I try and research my first telescope purchase. I’ve looked hard at a number of great sites like telescopenerd, starizona and of course this one, and think I’ve come to the point where I now need to ask some questions.

Welcome to the forum.

You are in the right place to ask.

I am in the fortunate position of having a budget of somewhere between £1,500 and £2,000 to get going in this hobby. My interests are all types of viewing – planets, DSO, etc – and also starting some photography at some point after I inevitably discover that my wife doesn’t want to traipse around in the cold looking through a scope or wait for me to set it up!

I will be able to do some observing from my garden, but buildings, lights and trees will mean that I will have to find a spot a little way out of Harpenden in Hertfordshire where I live, to do this hobby properly. With this, my budget and my goals in mind, I’m looking at an 8” SC telescope ... or possible 9.25” depending on the cost of all the other accessories I will need to buy (I’ve got aperture fever already J).

Being completely new to the hobby, I’m obviously very attracted to something like the Celstron CPC 800 or 925 GPS models because of the ease of set-up. But I’m conscious that for photography I’ll need a wedge or preferably an equatorial mount. So my other option is something like the Celestron 9 1/4-SGT XLT on a CG-5GT mount. Sorry for the long winded background, but now to my questions ...

1) I’d love the set-up and simplicity of the altaz mount on the CPC models, and the potential to “upgrade” to a wedge for photography, but I have a couple of concerns ...

a. If I buy a CPC model, the altaz mount is integral to the OTA, right? I can’t then upgrade to a GEM later, so I need to make this mount decision from the outset?

No, the OTA's are separate, normally connect to a mount via a dovetail (wedge profiled bar).

b. Also, how far can a wedge take you in photography? I’ve never done any astro photography at all. I know it’s a steep learning curve, but will it take me a “reasonable” way (however defined) into this aspect of the hobby before I get frustrated at the quality of pics i.e. how fit for purpose are the tripod, mount and wedge for photography?

Provided the wedge is aligned correctly with the polar axis then it will provide for a good basic platform. But if you then want to go down the route of long exposure imaging then a GEM is the better bet IMO.

2) With the CG-5GT mount, I know the set-up is harder. But for a beginner, is this a complete no-no, or just something I can learn myself via youtube and forums like this, and then when all is said and done, it’s straightforward and takes, what, 10 minutes to do each time? Longer?

3) How good is the CG-5GT mount in terms of stability with an 8” or 9 1/4” OTA? Is it marginal or comfortably up to the job? Can you suggest any others that might be better and won’t break the bank if it has issues?

Setting up a GEM is not difficult. Most have a polar scope that helps get decent alignment with the polar axis. Personally I don't like the Celestron CG-5GT mount as it is incredibly noisy when fast slewing. I would suggest an HEQ5 synscan is more suited for the OTA you have in mind. Depending on your stature, this is just in the limit of being classed a portable, but is a very precise mount, and in comparison, very quiet when fast slewing.

6) What else do I need to buy as a basic starting level .... not doing photography just now ... a barlow? A focal reducer (or is that only for photography)? What about a power source?

Many thanks for your patience and help.

When I lived in Harpenden I used to take my 102mm Vixen to the dark fields at the top of Bowers Heath Lane, just past the mobile home site. If you want to do the same then a power tank is an ideal accessory (£30 - £50 from maplin). These are used to jump-start cars, but provide a nice source for a 12v in the field. Most scopes come with "standard" eyepieces, but if you are intending to do visual then a few decent eyepieces are worth the investment. I paid £70 for a celestron X-cel which is a nice decent "budget" quality eyepiece. I've never used one of those £300+ eyepieces so can't comment on how good they are

Hope that helps

[Capricorn]

The CPC range is not connected by a dovetail as the SE's are, so getting the OTA off is not straight forward. They are all fork mounts and the drive is part of the fork connection to the scope.

May be possible, (hack saw) but looking at the scopes it is not something to be done lightly. Then if there are bits on the actual scope tube, highly probable, it may not be a case of a set of tube rings to attach to an EQ mount. Also comming off is one thing, getting back on is another.

The best rule to follow is consider astrophotography as seperate from visual.

The CPC's are a visual scope, thinking about it no-one makes an astrophotography system, you build one up yourself. You can do short exposure photography but that therefore excludes DSO's, or many of them.

If you see a serious astrophotography setup it is much removed from a visual setup.

The EQ mounts are just something that you would have to learn. At least with an EQ mount you can have one scope for AP and another for visual. Both will go on the mount.

Problem with the CPC for astrophotography is the mount is Alt/Az, the scope is an SCT so long focal length and tracking errors are amplified. A reducer will help. But it is good for visual and will locate whatever you want when set up.

So do you want to see things or photograph them.

Remember that an image even on a good astrophotography setup may take an hour to get sufficent exposures to make up one possible image. It is not f/8 for 1/250 sec.

[kirkster501]

All this was going through my head as well. And i am slowly coming to a conclusion. I want to observe and view more than anything else. If i want to look at photos of DSO I'll look at other peoples and enjoy their work. With a CPC I cn still do planetary and lunar photography should I choose to and still have a super visual instrument to boot.

Sabana hit the nail on the head. After getting home after a 12 hour day in mid Feb can I be bothered setting up for an hour with a GEM in a dark night in a field? And i think the answer is no.

Great thread and advice coming here guys. Thanks.

[AlistairHowie]

Everyone - thanks so much for all the input, it really is much appreciated. Special mention to Malc-c for diligently going through almost all of my questions one by one!!

So what I'm rapidly learning is that probably like all hobbies, amateur astronomy can be as simple/cheap or complicated/expensive as you want to make it. And within budget, however much you have, you have to compromise.

So what I am now thinking is that I should start with an altaz visual SCT scope - Mead or Celestron, I guess (are they much the same quality as each other?) - and take things from there. I am keen to avoid a scope upgrade if I decide to move to an eq mount in the future though, so can someone recommend an SCT OTA that can be mounted on either an altaz or an eq mount? If I understood correctly from other replies, such things do exist, although not the modesl I mentioned?

Maybe I should also hold off until the Meade LX80 mount comes out and there are some user reviews on it. That does seem like the best of both worlds, but of course I'm sure there will be issues with it as well.

Thanks again for all the great input, it's much appreciated.

[brantuk]

The CPC's a great all round scope. Superb optics, very accurate tracking, solid build, and easy to set up and use. They arrive as alt/az, fork mounted and can be used for imaging solar system objects in that configuration.

For dso imaging you'll need an equatorial wedge and reducer to bring the focal ratio down. You can get 30 min subs with no problem and some great results have been achieved by people here on the forum.

The only drawback compared to an equatorial mount is that they take a little more fuss setting up and getting accurate. That's why a lot of folks prefer to have them permanently wedged up in an observatory. The field is allways a bit narrower than a wide field appo due to the scope design of an Sct, but that never worried me.

All that said - they are superb visually - nice and crisp on planets/moon, and can be used with a reducer to view dso's too. The 800 and 925 are very portable in alt/az mode, though I have seen the 1100 at star parties too. With GPS and sound electronics that you never hear a compliant about - I'd totally recommend one.

[malc-c]

The CPC range is not connected by a dovetail as the SE's are, so getting the OTA off is not straight forward. They are all fork mounts and the drive is part of the fork connection to the scope.

Sorry for the confusion... my comments were related to...

So my other option is something like the Celestron 9 1/4-SGT XLT on a CG-5GT mount. .

[faulksy]

get the cpc 9.25 job done you will love it.

[AlistairHowie]

get the cpc 9.25 job done you will love it.

A man of few words - thanks!!

Just a(nother) quick question - after the initial GPS alignment which I realise can take longer, typically how long does it take to lock on to the satellites once switched on?

Thanks

[brantuk]

20 mins max and it's ready to go - more often only 10mins. It just has to wait for the right three satellites to go overhead to triangulate your position on Earth