How to deal with a potential new LP source?

[Kit-Fox]

Hi again folks.

So the property nextdoor to me is in the process of being redeveloped. Along with the redevelopment of the existing building 3 new building are going up that will face towards my back garden where I do most of my observing.

And just recently (on friday) on the current building they have put up what are essentially floodlights (nice & bright white lights too) and have left them on since finishing for the week. These lights are so powerful they wash out ther streetlight which is right outside the property & even light up the other side of the road

Now the developer while presenting a nice attitude of being freindly & listening to concerns isnt really that caring, hes in it for the cash he can make from doing this & is going to do what he likes how he likes despite any objections from what I can gather about his behaviour up to this point.

So my concern is how to approach him about these 'flood' lights and about the external lighting arrangements if any for the properties on his plot so that LP can be minimised & I wont risk losing the night sky.

Any advice, ideas?

[riklaunim]

Use LED lights. Other light bulbs like those Xenon very bright should be shielded to point the light only down.

[umadog]

One option is to tell him they're keeping you/the baby/the cat awake at night. Pitch it as a health and safety issue. Ask if he can have the lights off out of hours. Mention the words "carbon footprint." Good luck!

[garethmob]

one could also mention..... enviromental health or the council as umadog said it might be keeping you variously awake, cost is another one to consider, the led lights are all well and good, but can be just as bright and cos less to run

[Kit-Fox]

Well I think the new lighting has gone up as there have been some thefts from the property of building equipment & materials.

However the current approach isnt much better than the darkness before it really for helping discourage anyone who wants to risk it, as given how the plots on our street are arranged its hard to see actually onto the plot from either my side or the otherside (which is a bungalow anyways, so wouldnt see anything over their boundary fence & trees) when your inside.

Really all its doing is giving any potential criminals all the light they could possibly need to nick whatever they want.

-----------------

I was thinking of printing off a copy of the Campaign for Dark Skies lighting guidelines leaflet & going round and hoping I'll be able to convinve him to have a look at it and consider how hes lighting up the rest of the area as well (putting not only us his direct neighbours at some risk too but also the primary school & 2 houses on the otherside of the road too)

EDIT: I'm hoping that this softly, softly approach will get at least some results, would rather not risk making an enemy of someone who has the kind of money he has to spend around as unlike him I cant afford to keep a lawyer on retainer who deals with property law

EDIT2: Here are some pic linkies of the property as it looks at night with the lights on

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/KitFoxdpso/SDC10713.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/KitFoxdpso/SDC10712.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/KitFoxdpso/SDC10710.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/KitFoxdpso/SDC10708.jpg

& This is a view of the primary school across the road with its 'Security' Light

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j5/KitFoxdpso/SDC10706.jpg

Not sure what to do about the school, as I know that this light was put up due to H&S regulations that say the path must be lit during darkness to prevent anyone from slipping or falling on any obstructions or ice etc.

All pics were taken either while I was on my property or on a public pavement just for clarification purposes.

[umadog]

Hmm... Hard thing if stuff has been stolen. People are very convinced that lighting discourages crime and it may be very hard or impossible to pursuade them otherwise. One thing you could try is to point out that motion-activated lights are a better crime deterrent.

[wrinkly]

Try the chair of your local Council's Planning Committee.

They always like to be re-elected and would be a good idea to email your Ward Councillors, who generally share the same ambition.

[Sparrow]

If it becomes necessary, you may be able to involve your local Environmental Health dept as it is an issue that falls within their remit if it's affecting your enjoyment of you property.

BTW - we actually removed our motion sensor floodlights and have got some low energy patio lighting should we need it for a party etc. There's growing opinion that these floodlights just aid the criminals in seeing what they are doing.

[Kit-Fox]

Thanks for the ideas folks

Hopefully the developer willa ctually be there tomorrow, rather than just his workforce & I can see what happens.

Will of course update this with the results

[Bizibilder]

Follow the "normal enjoyment of your property" line with your local council (along with mentioning sleepless nights, waking the baby, sudden upsurge in crime in the area etc - lay it on thick but don't tell porkies!). Do it in writing and they will have to react. If you complain immediately then you have a good chance of achieving a result. If you delay then the other party can argue that "you didn't complain at first" and you are losing the battle.

[JamesM]

Judging by your photos, I think the lighting is only a temporary measure whilst the refurbishment is being carried out. I have never seen a permanent light placed so high and so bright on the front of a house being something that a future client would want or that would help a sale. However, if you see the developer wiring up many 'permanent' outside lighting points then I think you have a case to argue. In any case I do believe that if you approach environmental health as early as possible then you will certainly be in a stronger position in find out what the final external lighting plans (if any) are going to look like. It is better to sort this out before the new owners arrive so that it doesn't spoil any future relationships there.

James

[MorningMajor]

Where do you live Kit-Fox? as that primary school looks very familiar - maybe just a generic design of course - anyway near my location?

[Smeg]

You do not have the right to a view...

except in some countries where you do have a right to a window at work (Yes really - they count their headcount capacity by counting the windows on buildings).

I am sure the UK is not one of those countries with such rights

[Darkstomper]

Hmm... Hard thing if stuff has been stolen. People are very convinced that lighting discourages crime and it may be very hard or impossible to pursuade them otherwise. One thing you could try is to point out that motion-activated lights are a better crime deterrent.

I will second the above. Lights are no real deterrent if they are on all the time, they work much better when triggered by someone/thing! If they are still there when the builders are finished ask the local police to come and do a crime prevention survey (may be dependent on where you live but this is something done in North Yorkshire). They would almost def advise the fitting of activated lights.

[todd8137]

my first port of call would be your local council,do not mention your telescope to them,tell them you are be in kept awake at night, tell the guy if he can switch it of if that fails daily get on to your local council it took me nearly 4 months of phone calls and constant daily pressure before the painted 4 street lights out for me ,get on to the council today start the telephone callsto your local council,also get other family members to phone up ,or other neighbors

[Kit-Fox]

SO I've gone round and had a word with the workers there, I couldnt find the developer.

The current lights are temporary and havee been put up in a response to anther theft that happened this last thursday & are only going to remain up while work is carried out. So thats a great immediate result, as they did say they would be coming down when work on the existing house finishes.

I passed on a copy of the CfDS lighting guidelines & they all seemed interested in what it had to say & seemed to understand that bright lights at night were quite a distraction. The son of the developer who is working on the site did say he would pass the guidelines onto his dad & that they would pop round to chat before putting up any permanent exterior lights

So this is looking good

And MorningMajor, I suspect its a similar design. As the school Hall was put up in 1914 & the rest added sometime in the 70s/80s.

And I'm in south staffs

EDIT: I am looking on the positive side, but I am keeping in the back of my mind the fact these guys have ignored concerns about boundary walls/fences & trees/hedges. As well as cheating the planning regualtions to get the 3 new houses put up, so I will be keeping an eye out for permanent exterior lights just going up & try to keep them to their word.

[Smeg]

If they are only "temporary" while they work there, why make an issue out of it?

[Kit-Fox]

Because we didnt know if they were temporary, they do look during daylight like they are permanently fixed to the building where they are positioned.

And those lights arent the only issue.

Such as the new three buildings going up on the plot that will face towards our plot, which no doubt along with the current building have some permanent exterior lighting put up at some point as people any kind of light is good.

So I'm covering all bases, after all is it not best to deal with this now before money is spent putting up permanent lights that will cause problems & complaints???

[Smeg]

2 large metal scaffolding poles (or 2 large flagpoles), winch, Black waterproof cloth/tarp... Raise that to surround your garden.

Alternatively get your neighbours interested in astronomy and they will have lights out too Have a neighbourly barbecue party and have the telescope out when it gets dark, they will all want to take a look.

[MorningMajor]

And I'm in south staffs

Ah. obviously not the same school - incredibly similar facade though - good news about the lights being temporary though - Good luck!