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Imaging DSO's


marcosa666

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You can get some very satisfying beginner photos with an EQ5 synscan and a Star Travel 80. Both can be picked up second hand for about £300-350, new £580.

If you have the money a HEq5 mount with one of the many fast 80mm scopes will not let you down. I have a William optics ZS80ii DDG but the Skywatcher equinox is just as good, and Teleskop Service is also well worth a look. You are going to be sniffing around £1500-2000 by the time you are finished with the accessories though.

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ALT/AZ mounts are not suitable for long exposure (DSO) imaging. The tracking is not precise enough. You need an Equatorial Mount with guiding capability. You can use forked mounts as in the LX, but I am not sure how this is done, and most of the people I know who have used LX for DS imaging, have eventually removed the telescope and mounted it on an equatorial mount.

Mount suggestions are:

1. HEQ5 priced around £720 new

2. CG5 GT (FLO are doing them for £525)

First Light Optics - Celestron CG-5 GT GOTO

Drawbacks with the CG5 GT (I used to have one), is the polar axis reticle is unlit, they are noisy (can be problematic in the middle of the night with the neighbours) and have sticking out motor housings which I found caused obstructions from time to time, but I got some good imaging done with it.

3. NEQ6 (if you think you might want a heavier scope/set up this would be best, but it is around £800 - £900 depending on whether you want the handset and GOTO.

I would suggest an ED80 as a good all rounder DS imaging scope. around £350.

If you want a more powerful scope for observing, you can always buy a separate scope and mount it on the Eq mount. No one scope does all.

You'll have lots of accessories and guiding equipment to buy (this is not a cheap hobby).

Hope this helps, and of course you can be lucky and get 2nd hand cheaper.

Carole

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For imaging dso's you need a polar aligned equatorial mount. Some alt/az mounts can be used if mounted on an equatorial wedge for polar alignment. You need to be able to track in at least right ascension. RA and Dec tracking is possible and guiding systems allow longer exposures.

For dso's you need to collect faint light for long periods - large aperture newtonians are good at that but the larger you go the mounting and tracking becomes more of a problem with weight and accuracy. You often find well corrected appochromatic scopes are used with fast focal ratios (f-6 or less). Short tube wide field appos are popular for this - but they often need reducers and flatenners adding in.

Have a look at the prices for some of the stuff I've mentioned and then you need to decide if you really want to start with imaging, or perhaps you'd prefer to begin at a more appropriate level with observing and learning the sky. Imaging is a steep learning curve and can cost thousands :)

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i have an eq5 with synscan goto and a skywatcher explorer 200p which cost me £600 and an imaging camera which cost me £90 and have done some great images of dso,s without guiding.tracking is adequate for imaging if you are correctly polar aligned but as carastro says guiding comes in handy when imaging but isnt essential.

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I started out with an SW200p on an HEQ5 mount with no intention of getting into imaging, but found it brilliant for that purpose, as well as its original purpose as a purely visual scope. So you could go for that option, knowing that you could progress to imaging at relatively little cost later.

I say 'at relatively little cost', but as we all know, one thing leads to another and you will inevitably 'need' all sorts of new kit.

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Ah fantastic thanks I have a look at the 200p now then! and yes theres no way I will be able to resist all the bits of kit available!

I have a skywatcher 200PDS, which as i understand it, is optimised for astrophotography.....although im prepared to be corrected lol!

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Explorer 200P EQ5 SynScan EQ GOTO Mount With DVD | Telescopes | Rother Valley Optics

this looks like it will do all the things you want with an imaging cam from www.astronomyshed.co.uk for around £95 long exposure modded for dso,s i would say for less than £1000 you would be imaging in no time . also on the site are some great tutorials to get you started on the way to imaging from the use of the webcam to actual image processing all explained in excellent detail.

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Explorer 200P EQ5 SynScan EQ GOTO Mount With DVD | Telescopes | Rother Valley Optics

this looks like it will do all the things you want with an imaging cam from www.astronomyshed.co.uk for around £95 long exposure modded for dso,s i would say for less than £1000 you would be imaging in no time . also on the site are some great tutorials to get you started on the way to imaging from the use of the webcam to actual image processing all explained in excellent detail.

is this scope more orientated to solar system viewing? how does she do with DSO observing? thanks

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is this scope more orientated to solar system viewing? how does she do with DSO observing? thanks

the 200p is a good all rounder for planetary,lunar and deep space,trust me you wont be disappointed with it.

heres my very first dso image of the ring nebula (m57) using that scope and a £95 imaging camera.

m57-1.png

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also to point out if you look around you would probably pick up one of those scopes and an eq5 mount for less than £350 second hand like i did....then i just bought the synscan upgrade for £280 from rvo

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i have an eq5 with synscan goto and a skywatcher explorer 200p which cost me £600 and an imaging camera which cost me £90 and have done some great images of dso,s without guiding.tracking is adequate for imaging if you are correctly polar aligned but as carastro says guiding comes in handy when imaging but isnt essential.

Taking long exposures of the night sky without a carefully polar aligned mount and without a separate guiding system is frustrating to say the least, and results in wasted time and pictures as the mount skips and jumps through its cycle of periodic error. There is a pic of M57 posted above which shows considerable tracking error, visible as streaky stars.

Given the precious few dark clear nights that are suitable for imaging in any one year, then I would recommend a setup which will reliably maximise the clear skies, and cut down on frustrating wasted nights of trailed images.

So, rather than "coming in handy", I would suggest that an autoguided mount is most desirable, and the standard to aim for.

Cheers

Tim

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Taking long exposures of the night sky without a carefully polar aligned mount and without a separate guiding system is frustrating to say the least, and results in wasted time and pictures as the mount skips and jumps through its cycle of periodic error.

I'd have to disagree with unguided DSO imaging being 'frustrating'... to be honest, having had a brilliant time doing just that for the last seven months, it's trying to get guiding working that has introduced the 'frustration' for me :-)

I'd argue that, although a 200mm reflector is a great compromise if you want to do visual work too... the long focal length makes it less ideal for unguided long exposure imaging.

It can be done, but takes more careful attention to polar alignment than a shorter FL refractor like an ED80 or similar.

Lots of people will give you lots of advice, much of it contradictory. You have to find your own way to some extent. I was told by several people (mostly experienced imagers) that I'd be mad to not start guiding straight away... but I'm really very glad I have taken unguided imaging as far as I have before adding in that extra level of complexity.

Have a look at the flickr album in my sig... 100% of those images are unguided, Deneb has a great gallery of unguided DSO images on his website too IIRC.

Personally, I'd advise to start simple, do some unguided imaging with a DSLR or a webcam, keep your expectations low, and you'll be surprised, excited and thrilled by what you find you can capture... I know I was. Sure, you won't be creating the stunning images some of the guys put up here in your first month, but I'm sure you know that. I know when I started... the first time I pointed my scope at M42, took a 40 second exposure then saw that beautiful colourful nebula appear on the screen from that very first shot... it was an utterly incredible moment. I'm still somewhat in awe I can photograph any of these beautiful things up in the sky that I can't see :-)

Enjoy the journey... that's the fun bit :-)

Ben

Just my 2p

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Yes it is possible to start off with unguided imaging, but as you have found out yourself Ben, to get really long exposures you need to guide eventually and it's therefore makes financial sense to buy a mount capable of doing that from the outset even if you don't need it straight away.

I did a few months unguided imaging before I started guiding as I wanted to "learn to do one thing at a time", but I never found I could do long enough subs before trailing started. Once I started guiding of course I could capture much better data.

Carole

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Taking long exposures of the night sky without a carefully polar aligned mount and without a separate guiding system is frustrating to say the least, and results in wasted time and pictures as the mount skips and jumps through its cycle of periodic error. There is a pic of M57 posted above which shows considerable tracking error, visible as streaky stars.

Given the precious few dark clear nights that are suitable for imaging in any one year, then I would recommend a setup which will reliably maximise the clear skies, and cut down on frustrating wasted nights of trailed images.

So, rather than "coming in handy", I would suggest that an autoguided mount is most desirable, and the standard to aim for.

Cheers

Tim

as i said in the post with the pic of m57...it was my very first attempt at imaging and i know for a fact i wasnt perfectly polar aligned i was just trying to give the OP an example of what could be achieved without the need for guiding. and i wouldnt say they are streaky stars...oval maybe but definitely not streaks, i know a lot of people who have produced superb images without guiding.:)

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You may find at a fairly near future point that Tim and Carole are actually right....

What you have said is true - you can get some lovely images using an unguided setup. I was very proud to be awarded POW here for a shot taken using a standard HEQ5 ED8 and dSLR.

But you will quickly reach a point where you can go no further and you'll then find out why all the REALLY good results require a guided setup (either two scopes or OAG).

There really is no way to get around it I'm afraid.

Ant

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You may find at a fairly near future point that Tim and Carole are actually right....

What you have said is true - you can get some lovely images using an unguided setup. I was very proud to be awarded POW here for a shot taken using a standard HEQ5 ED8 and dSLR.

But you will quickly reach a point where you can go no further and you'll then find out why all the REALLY good results require a guided setup (either two scopes or OAG).

There really is no way to get around it I'm afraid.

Ant

You may be right in what you are saying ant but the OP,s original question was about a setup that would get him "reasonably clear images" and a guiding setup isnt worth the cost if the OP wants just to achieve this.

trying to get someone to run before they can walk and spend unnessasary amounts of money on guiding equipment doesnt hold together for me,my original advice to him was to get a decent allround scope and mount to enjoy first and do a few dso,s and planetary imaging,if he really enjoys it and wants to take it further then guiding would be another route.

why pay for a guiding setup running into a couple of thousand pounds when he might not have the knowledge of guiding just for reasonably clear images.

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I'd have to disagree with unguided DSO imaging being 'frustrating'... to be honest, having had a brilliant time doing just that for the last seven months, it's trying to get guiding working that has introduced the 'frustration' for me :-)

I'd argue that, although a 200mm reflector is a great compromise if you want to do visual work too... the long focal length makes it less ideal for unguided long exposure imaging.

It can be done, but takes more careful attention to polar alignment than a shorter FL refractor like an ED80 or similar.

Lots of people will give you lots of advice, much of it contradictory. You have to find your own way to some extent. I was told by several people (mostly experienced imagers) that I'd be mad to not start guiding straight away... but I'm really very glad I have taken unguided imaging as far as I have before adding in that extra level of complexity.

Have a look at the flickr album in my sig... 100% of those images are unguided, Deneb has a great gallery of unguided DSO images on his website too IIRC.

Personally, I'd advise to start simple, do some unguided imaging with a DSLR or a webcam, keep your expectations low, and you'll be surprised, excited and thrilled by what you find you can capture... I know I was. Sure, you won't be creating the stunning images some of the guys put up here in your first month, but I'm sure you know that. I know when I started... the first time I pointed my scope at M42, took a 40 second exposure then saw that beautiful colourful nebula appear on the screen from that very first shot... it was an utterly incredible moment. I'm still somewhat in awe I can photograph any of these beautiful things up in the sky that I can't see :-)

Enjoy the journey... that's the fun bit :-)

Ben

Just my 2p

That's a useful post Ben. I would however point out that your (very pretty!) images are of very bright objects (as far as DSO's go) and in some cases are taken with a fast camera lens, thus allowing for much shorter exposures.

Nadeem (Deneb on SGL) has some cracking unguided pictures, but he isn't exactly a beginner :)

The point that I was hoping to emphasise, and that Carole mentioned again, is that by thinking forwards at the start, you can save a lot in the future, in other words having the potential capacity for a guided setup in the future, even if not utilised right away, makes a lot more sense for somebody even mildy interested in imaging (it's addictive!). I learnt this the hard way :)

@BertUK - Your M57 is waaaaay better than my first attempt! :(

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Just to add...

Yes, should have added that I totally agree that you should definitely plan ahead FOR guiding in the future if the budget stretches to a HEQ 5 or similar.

Yes, I've gone for bright targets with my scope so far... but there are lots of bright targets out there.

Yes, now I want to start getting some fainter ones... but that's after a lot of fun catching the ones I can.

I just wanted to mention that you don't have to guide from the start to have fun and get started in DSO imaging.

Ben

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

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Wow well I thought I was close to deciding what I should do but every time I look a little closer there's more to think about!! appreciate all the helpful info though. This might sound like a stupid question but what's the difference between guided and not? Do you mean the mount tracking the stars due to long exposures or something else? Cheers

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