FLO Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 I am dangerously close to starting astro-imaging (EQ6 PRO and Meade SN10). I instinctively want to use my DSLR (EOS 10D) because its the camera I already own and I am familiar with it. But, I am coming around to the idea of using a laptop and a purpose-made imaging CCD. I will probably cut my teeth on the Moon first, then try some wide-field deep-sky imaging. So, without re-mortgaging the house, what is a good 'first' camera? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Just a few for you to mull over.All very good ccd's at not bad prices (All prices depend on particular dealers, these are for reference only) ATIK 16ic Monochrome CCD Camera = £359.99ATK-16 Monochrome CC Camera = £659.99Starlight Xpress MX716 CCD Camera = £799.99Starlight Xpress MX516 Parallel Port CCD Camera = £549.99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted March 30, 2007 Author Share Posted March 30, 2007 Thanks Jamie, I'll start googling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazOC Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Starlight Xpress MX716 CCD Camera = £799.99Starlight Xpress MX516 Parallel Port CCD Camera = £549.99Jamie, the Starlight cameras use the same chip as the Meade DSI and DSI II (I think... ), but they are much dearer. Any idea why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Must be the cooling system ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazOC Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 Ah, that'll be it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 30, 2007 Share Posted March 30, 2007 How about a Canon 10D hmm i don't understand why you are reluctant to use the 10D???? You only need to put £25 in (remote, T-adapter and 2" nosepiece) and you are away. Plus the large chip on the Canon is very forgiving of tracking errors. The EQ6 Pro will allow for upto 2mins unguided exposures, although 60-90secs is a better bet. No laptop really needed, very little setup time needed. Only downside will be red response for Ha dominant targets. But if you choose your targets wisely you'll get some stonking images. Not wanting to blow my own trumpet, not my style, but my Leo triplet image was more than a match for the images Rog and Martin got with their dedicated astro imagers. In a nutshell you can cut your teeth now, nothing stopping you.Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 SteveIF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CELESCOPE Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Starlight xpress,and Atik both very good , the Atik being cheaper, knowing what i know now, i would start at a sensible level, that way the outlay is done , both SXVH9Fand the ATIK16HR USE THE SAME CHIP the difference being the housing . but the Atik is £600 cheaper and a very good camera,Rog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinB Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 As an SXV H9 owner I agree with Rog that the Atik 16 HR is better value. The main advantage of the H9 is that it is USB 2 but this isn't worth £600! The H9 is better for fastar and can use the SXV adaptive optics. It integrates very well with the SXV guidehead. The Atik 16HR is a great buy.Rus I am struggling to believe that an SLR can match a CCD such as the Atik 16HR on a target like the leo triplet assuming similar technique and exposure time. I have seen some very good SLR images (some of them yours!) but they never seem able to achieve the signal to noise ratio of a cooled CCD. It would be interesting to do a side by side comparison! CCDs are silly money and useless for anything other than astroimaging. Mass production savings means you get loads more camera for you money with an SLR but for DSOs CCDs rule the roost imho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Klevtsov Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 Before this gets into a "which is best - CCD or DSLR" I'd like to add some of my thoughts, having tried DSLR and CCD imageing.The DSLR is a massively useful tool for astro imaging. It does one-shot colour, its stand-alone, its versatile (accounts department friendly) and its very simple to use. It is a pain to focus.The mono CCD is a specialised instrument, being more sensitive than a DSLR as there's no Bayer colour filter, it gets (mono) images quicker than a DSLR. It can be used for Ha or other narrowband images without fear of light pollution. It can do RGB with the appropriate filters.Processing with either is a pain, but you get postable images with either just as quick.Steve, as you have the Canon, nail it to the 'scope and see what comes out. It won't cost the earth (until you're hooked into imaging) and you will surprise yourself.DSLRs are to CCDs what cars are to motorbikes, you might like either, both or neither, it's your choice.Captain Chaos (will add more after work if necessary) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 Thanks chaps,I will be using my DSLR, its just that I am also tempted by the versatility of a mono CCD imager. Canon's large CMOS sensor is attractive and I am keen to experiment with dark-frame subtraction as a means of removing amp-glow. I also suspect that the Bayer-pattern RGB filters are not as much a problem as people say; the software algorithm includes information from all the sensors (they rarely show a zero signal) when determining colour. I like the idea of a mono CCD imager because it enables the user to precisely control the colour being imaged, and is more sensitive. At least that's my understanding. I have also just bought myself a copy of AstroArt V4 (after a demonstration by someone at the NLO) and am looking forward to playing with it 8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CELESCOPE Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 And u dont have to do dark frames either if you dont want to Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted March 31, 2007 Author Share Posted March 31, 2007 But you do need a laptop I hear that a laptop is a good idea even when using a DSLR, for the focusing.IF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want.Thanks Steve, I think I'll take you up on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaptain Klevtsov Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 A laptop is a great preview screen substitute to check focus at full image size. Sure beats trying to look at the preview screen whan using a Frac. pointed straight up. You can sometimes use the TV output from DSLRs to a portable TV, or so I've heard, the LCD ones are possibly good for that.Captain Chaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 You can sometimes use the TV output from DSLRs to a portable TV, or so I've heard, the LCD ones are possibly good for that.Captain ChaosThats got me thinking CC , i have a small 7 inch lcd tv that i use for camping,i might have a got with that to see if i can get a decent preview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ Posted March 31, 2007 Share Posted March 31, 2007 What I said earlier wasn't a "DSLR is better than CCD" statement. No fool on this planet would argue that. Nothing I can do could match what Martin & Rog do. But on some DSO objects (mainly galaxies and open clusters) the DSLR can really close the gap on those Atiks and Starlights. It gets shot to pieces on most other DSO's. But there's plenty up there to get you started and the 10D is very good starting point.Plus you have the option to bolt the 10D direct to the EQ6 with no scope and get some drop dead gorgeous widefields with only the roughtest of polar alignments.Focus is a pain but you only have to do it the once and if you are sensible you'll do it on a bright star, perhaps one of the GOTO alingment stars. From then on the camera stays untouched for the rest of the night. The EQ6 GOTO is capable of placing the object dead centre on the chip everytime.I used the laptop twice with the DSLR, decided it defeated one of the main reasons for using the DSLR.......ease of use! Buy one of the Canon programmable remotes and you really are on easy street. DSO imaging doesn't come any easier.Then move onto the proper DSO imagers that Martin/Rog use but still keep the DSLR handy for those widefields.Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinB Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hmm... food for thought indeed Rus! Those Canon 350Ds seem to be coming down in price all the time. A lot of camera for the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 But you do need a laptop I hear that a laptop is a good idea even when using a DSLR, for the focusing.IF my Atik comes back from Portugal repaired before Sgl3 then you can have a go with it in wales if you want.Thanks Steve, I think I'll take you up on that Looks like you are on for Sgl Steve as my camera should be back soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted April 2, 2007 Author Share Posted April 2, 2007 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazOC Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Are you any further along with this Steve? I'm thinking of giving it a bash this summer as well (mind you, I've said that for the last 5 summers), Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 I'm going to start with a DSLR but hope to quickly move on to a CCD imager as I want to play with filters 8) Still pondering which camera to use... Have you got your eye on a particular model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazOC Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 I've got a DSI in the kitchen drawer.... I figured that, the ED100 and a focal reducer will get me started. I've also just got a good deal (£70) on a 3.3 SCT reducer for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kai Posted April 18, 2007 Share Posted April 18, 2007 Atiks Back :wav:Clear blue skies at the moment so i am going to have a bash tonight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLO Posted April 18, 2007 Author Share Posted April 18, 2007 Gaz, I was considering the DSI, it seems an affordable way to get started and I have seen some good images. Congrats Kai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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