SOME HELP AND A STEER IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION

[Jonners1981]

All,

My query is regarding my 1st telescope and mount.

I am now getting into my Astrophotography and have a budget of around £250-350.

What should i buy to give me the best value for what i want?

My caveats are before responding are:

1. Though I have a basic understanding of the skies, I would like a GOTO system (i know some feel its cheating but i just like them)

2. I would like to be able to photograph Saturn and Jupiter

3. I would also like to take pictures of glaxies and nebulae (I know there is a trade off between planetary detail and this requirement)

4. I appreciate its better to save up to get better results but initially, if I stick with this hobby (which I will) I can convince my wife to let me save up and spend more in time.

5. Would I need extra items such as battery packs, eyepieces etc

6. I am going to to Afghan for 6 months so would like some portability for transport in mind.

Not much for you to consider (!) but any help would be massively welcomed.

[NickK]

If you could find an HEQ5/EQ6 Pro secondhand for that - yes, go for those. An NEQ6 Pro is about 40Kg before the scope and other bits.

Otherwise I would wait and save as the mount is the key to it all.

Another option is just for for a 200mm lense, DSLR and an astro track. Portable widefield DSOs.

[JamesM]

I reckon your ambitions (funded by your available budget) will be limited to looking no further than a Dobsonian and a webcam, which will be great for the moon and planets but deep sky objects such as galaxies and nebula will require, as Nick has said, an HEQ5 minimum (secondhand - £600).

James

[chemtom24]

from what ive learnt on here, the mount is eveyrthing when imaging. At least an eq5 is needed so im told, so i would suggest looking for a second hand on of those? It may be more hassle than buying a package from a shop, but you will get a lot more for your money, and a few months later you will realise just what you *could* have brought for your money. (sorry dont mean to be patronising )

so check out ads for a minimum of an eq5 mount. I higlhy doubt this will be goto, but forget this for now, your budget does not allow for it.

second, get a second hand 150 - 200mm newt f5/f6. if you want planets, go for a higher 'f' number, for dso's, a low f numer. f5/f6 is middle ground if slightly on the fast side. dont buy junk, buy something branded like celestron or skywatcher, with a parabolic mirror.

thirdly, for the planets, use a webcam, you can buy modded ones or you can buy the neximage. for dsos, you need long exposure so u need a dslr, but tracking is important and serious imagers have a guided setup (expensive ) however, i am told you can get up to ~20 second exposures unguided (im gonna find out soon )

so just do a bit of research before you go and buy a brand new thing with a poor mount for 250 quid! shop around for 2nd hand and save yourself the trouble of upgrading in a few months time

entirely up to u of course but i went the route of a brand new scope, and 6 months laters have sold it for half the price. now i realise what i should have brought!

[NickK]

Just to point out - there's a large difference (accuracy and weight capacity) between the EQ5 and the better HEQ5.

[rowan46]

I'm sorry but you are not going to get a goto mount suitable for dso work that is portable and for your price. the lightest mount capable of being guided for astro work is the celestron cg5 gt although to call it an astrophotography mount is pushing it. nethertheless there are plenty of people who get some decent pics with it. This will cost you about £400 2nd hand then you will need an 80mm apo certainly no bigger aprox £300 and then a finder guider about another £150 2nd hand. total weight with batteries and that aprox 70lbs. this kit will work it won't be brilliant but you will get some product. of course the really hard part is the price. it may take a year or 2 to get it all together at that price. forgot to add in the weight and cost of cables laptop dew prevention extra battery I assume you have a dslr?

[chemtom24]

I understand that astrophotography is an expensive game, and decent equipment is needed, but it astonishes me the amount of near-on contempt that people display towards others who are jsut starting out/looking into it.

Many blokes would love a sports car, but most of us get by with old bangers.

Sure put the info out there that imaging quality will be limited, but why the need to almost brag about the gear YOU have or that someone else WILL need?

But then I guess this hobby attracts all kinds so...

*awaits spanking from older members *

Tom

[NickK]

*awaits spanking from older members *

*munches popcorn*

[chemtom24]

*munches popcorn*

LOL.

I dunno it just seems like some people on here make it sound liek its an underground cult or something, and instead of giving friendly advice they would rather laugh at someone who asks an innocent question. I have no doubt that alot of skill is required to get some decent images of nebula etc, and im sure these people put in alot of effort - but theres pride in ur work, and then theres arrogance.

having said that, alot of people here have been friendly and given out good advice to me, sotherer are some good ones, you know who you are

[rowan46]

I understand that astrophotography is an expensive game, and decent equipment is needed, but it astonishes me the amount of near-on contempt that people display towards others who are jsut starting out/looking into it.

Many blokes would love a sports car, but most of us get by with old bangers.

Sure put the info out there that imaging quality will be limited, but why the need to almost brag about the gear YOU have or that someone else WILL need?

But then I guess this hobby attracts all kinds so...

*awaits spanking from older members *

Tom

I gave the cheapest mininmum set up I have seen that works, I don't own any of that gear I can't afford it. Perhaps we should have pointed him out to kit that doesn't work then he could blow his money on stuff that doesn't do the job and leaves him dissatisfied. friends tell you when you are being unreasonable and if they are good friends keep you rooted in reality. I saw no contempt in any of those replys nor did I see anybody bragging about their kit. I saw lots of people trying to make a guy who knows nothing see reality. (By the way that wasn't meant as an insult. we all started from the baseline of ignorance) but it is a fact that many come on this forum saying I want to do all this and I want to do it all for nothing. When I was young owning a decent telescope was something only the very well heeled could afford. Nowadays thank god people like me and you can afford something that's useful. unfortunately it's not the case that all branches of amateur astronomy are like that. Imaging deep space still requires a bit of cash

[chemtom24]

i stand corrected

[rowan46]

i stand corrected

However I do agree I was slightly rude because I forgot to say to a first posting. "Welcome to sgl." My apologies Jonners. i hope you find the forum useful

[foundaplanet]

Hello Jonners1981................

On the assumption that you are in the military, have a think about approaching those with the funds for ops welfare package and see if you can convince them that a suitable purchase would support morale out there. (solves your shipping problem also lol)

You can then save a few more pounds when you are out there for your own kit when you get back, whilst getting some experience. There must be a few people interested and there's got to be a 'club' in there somewhere

[Digz]

I think there is some great advice above

[Jonners1981]

Firstly,

Thank you for the welcome to SGL. Certainly the advice has been most welcomed and informative.

Secondly,

I have been looking around and these seem (before others may comment!) quite good for my purpose:

SkyWatcher Skyhawk 1145P SynScan AZ GOTO 114mm Reflector Telescope

or

Celestron NexStar 114LCM Computerized Telescope

and finally

Meade DS2114 Reflector Telescope

Do you not think that these will do the job that i want.

If i cant astrophotograph sucessfully, then at least the enjoyment of seeing the stars, planets and galaxies will keep me amused for a while.

I do really like the suggestion of ChemTom and building up my arsenal slowly but as i suggested, i have to convince the Domestic Commander-in-Chief first before i branch out!

Thank you for all of your advice so far though.........

[ismangil]

Hi, welcome to SGL.

I am a newbie like you, I haven't even got a telescope yet!

So while I can't give any equipment reviews, I can tell you the results of my research the past two months, through reading books, magazines, two internet forums, and countless websites.

I am looking for much the same thing as you, and probably lots of newbie: cheap, portable, can see lots of thing and astrophotography.

So here's the tradeoffs to make from your list:

- It is not whether it's cheating or not. Goto systems costs will eat into your scope budget.

Therefore you will get a smaller scope and/or lower quality optics (mirror and eyepieces). This may means less wow factor on things you do see. So while it seems easier to use as it will point correctly to the part of the sky it wouldn't necessarily be as beautiful as it can be.

- To cut a long story short (let me know if anyone want the long story ): The cheapest type of astrophotography through a telescope will be the moon and the planets because it can be done with a webcam and cheap tracking system (or even a manual non-tracking system). [This does cheat a bit though because the cost of the computer is frequently discounted ]

For my own purposes, I am coming to a conclusion that 5inch or 130mm aperture is probably the right size in terms of possibility, portability, and budget wise.

So my current shortlist are:

• First Light Optics - Skywatcher Heritage 130p Flextube (Observation only)
  
• First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skymax 127 SupaTrak (Observation and definite possibility of moon and planets astrophotography)
  

Due to the flexibility I am of course leaning towards the Skymax 127.

Hope this helps, if not, I apologize

[rowan46]

the skywatcher is a good scope but this one is better First Light Optics - Skywatcher Explorer 130P SynScan AZ GOTO the only reason it's better is because its bigger. I have just thought as you will be working in afghanistan you may want something that is a little easier care and perhaps a little more portable. This comes in under your budget

First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skymax 102 SynScan AZ GOTO and this one is just over and a little bigger

First Light Optics - Skywatcher Skymax 127 SynScan AZ GOTO

the advantage of the mak over the reflector is they are shorter and they don't need collimating. all of the goto's need a power pack those car ones are fine.

The mak doesn't give you as wide a view as the reflector but it takes magnification better and consequently is better on planets and the moon. put yourself a cheap webcam on them and they will be fine for photographing moon and planets. Once again welcome I hope we were more help this time

[Jonners1981]

To Ismangel, this does help thank you. You certainly don't have to apologise. I am leaning to the idea of starting small then building up the experience, know-how and confidence to branch out.

Ideas are starting to formulate (and convince the in-house Bank Manager!)

[Neil McRae]

Jonners

Although I am still relatively new to all this I could maybe offer some advice on my own mistakes and thereby help you.

I have a Celestron 130 SLT goto which was great for observing and decent (though limited) photography of the moon and planets. Great for looking around the heavens but limited in getting DSO photography due to apeture and az el guiding.

I took the next step and bought 2nd hand an eq5 Synscan goto mount. Great I thought and proced to buy a Skywatcher 200p. Fantastic scope and has given great results in astrophotography BUT I wish I had talked to these guys here. The mount although great is on the tracking limits for a 200p and it would have been better to have advice and gone for the HEQ5 or NEQ6 mount. OK that is my two pence worth. I do not believe anyone here is bragging, only trying to give advice which I wish I had done. Good luck and clear skies.

Neil

[ollypenrice]

It simply isn't possible to photograph galaxies and other deep sky objects without a sophisticated and quite expensive mount. This is not being contemptuous, it is answering your question! However, using a fast frame camera like a webcam it is perfectly possible to do well at imaging the solar system objects with all sorts of simple mounts.

I would make visual observing my initial priority and think about deep sky photography a mile or two down the line.

Olly

[JamesM]

Jonners, I would like to summarise some important points to answer your original question at the start of this thread which concerned your interest in astrophotography. On the budget you have available, you will only be able to image planets and the moon using a webcam. Deep sky objects such as galaxies, nebula, clusters etc require periods of accurate tracking to collect sufficient light (data) because those objects are relatively faint. To do that you need accurate polar alignment and an accurate motorised 'equatorial' mount; not any equatorial mount that happens to have motors attached but one which is capable of consistently tracking the object. It is this need for accuracy, that prompts some imagers to achieve the required tracking by using another scope/camera to lock onto a nearby star and in so doing 'instruct' the mount to make the necessary adjustments to maintain accuracy. From this description alone, you can see how quickly the correct mount and 'guiding' as it's called, can very quickly eat into any prescribed budget. No one above, including myself are trying to put you off imaging but it is correct for people to point out factually what is involved in producing some of these fantastic images. If it were easy and cheap, we would all be doing it.

Can I make a further suggestion to you and that would be to get hold of Steve Richards "Making Every Photon Count" (FLO £19.95). It is a comprehensive overview that advises on what you need and why you need it, to achieve the kind of results that will meet your expectations. It covers simple techniques of placing a camera on a tripod, to the kind of tracking/guiding discussed above and more. No one has mentioned processing the data you might collect and although there are very good pieces of software out there that are free, there are also many that are not. So it is important that you can obtain the necessary overview for the level of imaging you want so that you don't waste any money buying the wrong gear. As the old saying goes, you don't want your first image of a black hole to be the one in your wallet!. The above book is modestly priced and will in fact save you money.

There are a lot of brilliant experienced imagers on this forum and should you want to get involved with imaging, you will never be short of help and advice.

Clear skies

James

[AztecastroMcJ]

for ur budget and requirements the 127mm mak would be a good choice

either SW or Celestron

u will need power supply(mains adaptor or portable power tank)

also dewshield would be my priority over any filter or additional ep's

James