DaveL59

worth trying it without the diagonal in the path, perhaps, in case that is adding too much extra length to the light path, are you getting closer to focus as you rack inward but just not quite getting there? I'd suggest remove the diagonal and just slot the barlow and eyepiece directly in the scope focuser tube. If that lets you reach focus then you'd maybe need to get a regular star diagonal as that'll add less compared to the erecting diagonal. Would also affirm that the barlow supplied is really for terrestrial use and not astro and perhaps getting a 2x shorter barlow as well would then gain you the flexibility, at least with the 20mm.

Looks nice, like the red stars to finish the job too, shame we can't easily get a TAL logo sticker, almost tempted to find a hammer and sickle one 😉

Finally reached the end. The other day I sorted some stitch loops thru the acetone and flock along the edges, I know, maybe not needed but am playing safe given temperatures where this can be sat during the day times. Don't want the flock breaking free and resting on the mirrors after all. Won't bore with a pic of a sheet of black flock tho there's one of those further up this thread 😉 So today I cleaned the mirrors ready to go back and while they dried, reassembled the focuser and fitted back onto the OTA. Hopefully the alignment mark I made will have the finder still aligned with the main scope, will find out one day lol. With the mirrors clean and refitted I thought some vanity shots of it set up in the garden would be nice, tho only using a single pier section - less trips as I can't carry it assembled quite yet. and back in the nice baltic pine case I never did do a highlight of the latitude scale, I think there's not enough relief after the "baking the paint" experiment that turned the knuckle biscuit colour. I reckon I'd have to hard strip the paint with chemicals and start over on that part, another day maybe. Weird too how the pillar turned a slight off-white colour and they weren't baked other than sitting in the airing cupboard to cure the paint. Again, it'll wait Funny how bright sunlight brings the eye sharply to any slight blemish in the finish 😢 but overall it's pretty good and am pleased with the final result. It can always be done again in the future should it need it and I'll have learned how not to do some of the bits, esp the part about patience and light coats and wait... and NOT TO BAKE the paint!! 😄 I do think I'll need to sort some better felt for the case though as I can see some has lifted away. I'd like to better cover the sharp screw ends to protect the paint for a start, but it can wait for now. Also a place to stow the 32mm accessories (25+15 eyepiece and 3x barlow) that are dedicated to this scope, perhaps foam fit the wee box in the corner to hold them and the knuckle so they're safe and secure. Anyways, hope you enjoyed a few laughs at the goofs and perhaps useful a reference if anyone else want to do the same 🙂 edit: Oh yeah, still got to collimate and then set the finder aim but that can wait for another day too...

to give an idea of the difference flocking can make, I've just finished refit of the mirrors in my TAL-M, the spider is painted in blackboard paint, brush.

Did think about wraps, but the need to rotate the OTA in the tube rings I thought would be an area where it'd start to lift and tear away so wouldn't look great after a short time. Powder coat was another possible, but seems that can add 0.5mm or so to the dimensions and during lockdown not so easy to go see people to price up etc. A simple flat paint coat is reasonably DIY even with limited place to do the spray work - the shed in my case, the TAL-M has turned out reasonably well so far tho I did go through several cans to get a nice finish lol

I'd be worried that a slight knock and they'd all be on the ground. Guess you could always drill some suitable holder holes tho so they're secure and size ordered 🙂

hmmm this thread is making me wonder which day-glo paint colour I should use when I come to refurb the TAL-1 one day. Too late for the TAL-M as that's already painted and close to reassembled, just waiting on the mirrors to dry off. Maybe some form of metallic pearlescent hot rod colour scheme, purple and gold flake...perhaps? 😉

be best to post pictures here in the thread as others will be able to add too. I expect they are basic plossl eyepieces and there are a lot better ones out there but it is what you have to work with. It is a beginner scope so will have limitations for sure, the eyepieces, the diagonal both could be improved upon. For astro you would be better to get/use a 90-degree star diagonal than an erecting one, you get an inverted image but less light loss. As mentioned by Niall, the supplied barlow will not be very useful, better to get another eyepiece in the 8-12mm range perhaps. Depends on how much more you're prepared to spend tho as eyepieces like the BST Starguiders are around £50 each for example. These can then be used on other scopes as you upgrade but it's an investment right after getting a scope that may not be what you want to do right now.

a pure brass buffing wheel with a future plan to try this out on the finder bracket for the old vintage scope The old JPY grey+white just doesn't look right against black leather and brass, just need to figure how to fully dismantle that old Prinz type 6x finder (the silver tube and grey ring into the main tube just didn't want to shift last try) and then I can refinish it to suit too, tho I'd like to get the TAL-M refurb finished first. Am thinking along the lines of brassed foot and holder, the chrome tube and if metal also brass the dew shield, rest in black...

good idea to have tested the fit, sounds nice and secure which is good. As to further mods, worth seeing how it performs as-is and then decide if you might gain anything from doing more, the gains reduce progressively I expect. As it stands it looks very good and certainly different, perhaps a fake shell nose cone on the end cap would amuse folks too 😉 As for the motor, if it still works then it may make things easier for tracking objects if you have the RA axis pointing north so you aren't having to be tweaking the manual controls to stay on target, you can just relax and enjoy the view. One for later on tho perhaps.

sadly the eyepieces that are supplied with many scopes aren't always the best. The 25mm should be usable but the 4mm is that an SR4 by any chance or a plossl? The smaller the focal length (mm) the smaller the eye lens tends to be so it can be hard to use. If they supplied an SR4 then it's pretty much no use. Barlows can vary in quality too and a 3x isn't as useful as a 2x I think, at least in my experience. I'm guessing your mount isn't a tracking or goto type, so by the time you switch from the 25mm to that plus barlow the object you aimed at will have drifted across the field of view and would need to be found again. So you really need to get it well centred and perhaps even over to the left a little, so that if you are quick it might have stayed in view after swapping over. Have a try at the moon and see how switching over goes so you get an idea of the change in magnification and also how the target shifts. Also being very bright the 4mm might give you a view you can use. If you do decide you want to do more, then upgrading the eyepieces and barlow may be a good idea but ask here for advice and recommendations and focal lengths. We'll need the details of the scope - 80mm F400 is it? Assuming it is the 80AZS, looking that up it's supplied with an erect image diagonal, 20mm and 4mm plossl and a long 3x barlow. So that would give you magnifications: 25mm x16 20mm x20 4mm x100 Max useful magnification they state is x189 so the barlow is of no use with the 4mm as that significantly exceeds the scope's abilities. With the barlow and 25 or 20mm it would yield x48/x60 depending which you have. Planets will still look very small so you'd need the 4mm on its own to get a slightly better view.

Does the 4mm work ok not barlow'd on the planets? That barlow would only be useful with the 25mm eyepiece giving you an effective 8mm. The 4mm eyepiece would put the magnification way over what that scope would be able to handle and you'd just see blackness. It should work with the 25mm though and give a higher magnification compared to the 25mm alone. You would need to be very centred on the target as shifting the magnification that far would put you off target otherwise and then you'd need to hunt for it again.

Blackboard paint may be better than matt black as it'll be flatter in terms of light. Flocking is a sticky-backed black velvet that looks very dark as light isn't reflecting off the surface so may give a better image. Not had a chance to try it as I'm still completing the refurb on mine and at the mo can't lift heavy stuff so no chance of dragging a scope out to play. I expect yours will work just fine though, only object likely to cause surface reflections will be a bright moon after all 😉 Good move on the mirror and focuser, I squeezed the tangs in slightly on my original focuser so it held the 1.25-inchers snug and that worked ok too. Just have to remember when you flip the scope so they don't fall out. Know what you mean about mains, an RCD on the house end will help and a plastic box to place the connections into so they don't get damp on the ground would help. The original would give 12vAC I believe, worth checking if it all works and then you can decide if you might use it or if other works may be needed on that part. There's a thread here I think it was Mark who rebuilt it with a different motor and battery power source.

nice!! Well done too on getting a new foot made for it, they're a nice stable setup and very solid. I see yours is the motorised model, hopefully that all works too. My 1995 TAL-1 with manual mount is in fairly good condition with only a few marks in the original off-white but I'll maybe refurbish it one day too, once I've completed work on the TAL-M that is along with a couple other bits I'm fiddling with. I did replace the focuser on mine for the later 1.25-inch version and shifted the main mirror up the tube using longer screws and springs rather than cutting the OTA, might be a worthwhile mod later on. I've also flocked the inside of the OTA on the TAL-M by using a sheet of acetate and applying the flock to that, to get a darker path to the main mirror, the internal of the OTA seems a touch greasy or unwilling to adhere to so this seemed an easier option and simple to revert from. I'll probably do the same for the TAL-1 at a later date but otherwise I find mine performs very well.

thought I'd report back on the ageing process (of brass bits that is) Given this scope is vintage the bright shiny new screws really don't meld with the rest so having read around the web I've tried a couple methods but this one was what worked reasonably well for me. You'll need: Acetone Malt vinegar (or cider vinegar) Suitable container Bowl to for a water bath fine grit emery cloth tin foil and tape First up, soak the component/section with acetone for a while to soften/remove any protective coating, 30 mins say. Then gently rub down with the emery paper to remove any residue. Dip the part in vinegar and remove. Now rather than faff with making holes in the lid and screwing the parts into them I just went with a bit of tin foil folded and pushed the screw thread through, tape on the thread to hold them so they don't drop into the jar/vinegar while curing, like so... Then pour some vinegar into the jar and pop the foil cap holding the screws on top. Pour some hot water into the "bain marie" and leave for a long while, refresh the hot water every now and again. The idea here is the fumes from the vinegar act to age the exposed brass and heating should improve the fume rate. Next morning the result: Rinsed under the tap and rubbed with fingers and then dried off and fitted to the scope: Quite a difference to the shiny non-aged brass that's also pictured and to my eye looks very good indeed, very pleased with the results of this little experiment 🙂

a feature of newts as the vanes cause diffraction spikes. Only fix would be a refractor or a MAK/SCT where the secondary mirror isn't held with a spider vane.

tend to agree with Peter, I've bought a few trad leather cases and some fit, others don't, still keeping an eye out for one that'll suit the Swift HR/5's. Padded ones work fine, the Minolta 10x50's came in one and being rubber clad they don't fit a regular leather case which were more usually in the non-rubber clad era. You might find something in the samsonite range if lucky.

a car paint shop might be able to match and supply, some DIY places can mix too but not sure their paint would suit as I think that's more emulsion tho I could be wrong. Problem will be getting a nice finish as brush painting isn't likely to look good and getting a spray can mixed to match might not be so easy, worth asking tho. While refurbishing the TAL-M I just went with hammerite smooth, white and black since that was what was on the shelf down the road and it was lockdown so options limited at the time.

thanks Mark, yep second one is more in the original style, just needs ageing a bit now. Was wary of trying it in a hand drill but it worked out ok in the end and no bits or files went flying 😉

decided what the heck and mounted one in the drill chuck and ran it holding a file against the knurled section. Elf and safety would've been unimpressed but... Result, thanks Mark for that suggestion, stirred me to try it having dismissed the idea when I though of it earlier so you saying the same added reinforcement and saves having to order a replacement 🙂 Fine focus now locks when I need it, I'll look at ageing the brass at some stage depending on the experimental results with the M2 csk screw head. Hmmm looking at the pic, decided to try a different mod with a round file: That's much better 🙂

Had thought that, or even grind into the silver ring to let it clear, but I think better to get a replacement with longer threaded section as there will be less to grip once clamped in a further 3mm. Not so bad now but on a cold night... There is a larger M3 tapped thumb wheel I can get from the UK, 15mm dia which might work ok with a nylon M3 screw inserted: Kinda baulked at the £5 plus postage cost tho 😉 Could order a pack of 4 of this type for less than half the price and have spares

Short of lifting the felt to see I can't really advise, not having one to examine. Hopefully someone else here may know more and comment. For sure I'd not disturb the lens ring until certain that's the way to remove the cell. Might be easier to remove the focuser and work carefully from that end, a long thin paint brush with lens cloth might reach and also act as a pressure control against the lens. You likely won't be able to reach your hand down the OTA as it'll have baffles I expect.

so feeling a bit more able today and sticking with the light duties theme, decided I'd drill and tap the M3 hole for the fine focus lock thumb screw and also another in the diagonal so the eyepieces can be clamped - original for the diagonal was lost and the original threaded hole wasn't holding the screw as the first part of the thread was damaged. Small pilot hole then drill out to 2.5mm and hand tap and... Wow tapping that brass with an M3 was surprised how squeaky it went even with a drop of oil! Here's the result, with the M3x8mm thumb screws that arrived the other day. Not quite a match but they can be aged. I so need to get a pillar drill if I'm going to be doing a lot of this tho as both are at a little of an angle but what the heck, not bad for hand-holding the drill and part and it does work which was the object of the exercise 🙂 (well the fine focus one will do eventually that is lol) So nearly there but... on the drawtube the knurled part snags that silvered ring before it can go far enough. Should've been braver and drilled closer to the edge, maybe. But no worries, I've ordered some M3x16mm black nylon until I can sort some longer brass ones which it looks like I'd have to order via Ali since nobody in the UK seems to list them at the moment. Likely I'll fill that redundant hole later on too. I did consider some vintage spark plug terminal nuts with a nylon screw glued in as they are a closer match to the original brass/nylon one on the focuser but those seem to be M4... Being only 5mm between the silver ring and the edge I wasn't so keen to run a M4 thread there at this stage. Wonder if I can use that idea tho and re-work the nylon screw to reduce M4 down to M3 below the nut and not have it shred while running a regular die over it or it just snap off in use? I've also got some brass pan-head's ordered to replace the 2 screws on the OTA that are currently CSK, so they fill the hole in the leather a little better. Still experimenting with ageing the screw head, acetone and heat in the gas flame to remove any lacquer and then I've inserted the screw into some tin foil, tape on the thread so it doesn't fall in and sat that over the top of a small bottle with malt vinegar in it. Leave for as long as necessary and it does seem to be gradually ageing the finish. Seems the acidity of the fumes is more effective than immersion, will show results if I succeed. Dismantling the diagonal while working on that new tapped hole, discovered that it's a prism not a mirror which I hadn't realised the old 60's Japanese scopes came with. I guess that's handy though as it won't have deteriorated over all these years, very neat.

if the main objective elements carry a mark on the edge it's best to align these when assembling it as that'll be where the maker found the best performance of the 2 elements combined to be.

I do similar to what Mark suggests on Bino's that I don't want to disturb the objectives or where the lens ring won't shift, tho if you do then use a very light touch so as not to scrape the dust across the lens. I don't know the scope but the lens cell isn't retained by screws in the side of the OTA? If it is then the cell would come out complete and you could clean and re-fit and not affect the lens orientation or spacing. A lens ring may well be what is holding the lens in the cell and then you risk them coming out as separate lenses and have to orient and get the spacers placed when you reassemble. A pic of what you are looking at would help in terms of asking advice sp we know we're talking about the same things.