Ships and Stars

1 hour ago, Ken82 said:

I decided to upgrade my eyepieces from 82 to 100 degree. 

The first one arrived this week 😀

Ill need a coma corrector for my dob though.

You can't go far wrong with the 21E!

A beauty.

Regarding condensation, one thing I try to do with eyepieces is place them in a waterproof roll-up kayak/canoe bag or similar before I bring them inside. That way they can warm up without becoming a moisture magnet. My worst nightmare is to look through one the next day and see internal moisture stains, should it bead up inside.

To note, once they've been inside long enough to warm up a bit, I will remove them as soon as possible to naturally air dry without caps. 

I've cleaned the primary on my big dob twice in the last year because it's so easy to remove (single locking collar underneath, off in about 20 seconds). The first time it just needed a good clean, the second time was after a windy night and a ton of light dust settled on the mirror - I used a rocket blower first to remove the bulk of it, but gave it a very gentle rinse afterwards at a 45-60 angle in the bathtub. All good. 

Otherwise as mentioned above, I'd leave it unless it's obviously mucked up or you're feeling bothered enough that it stays on your mind.

Again, shining a torch on any mirror and you will instantly see tiny particles here and there - that's happened within minutes of reinstalling a perfectly clear mirror, nothing to worry about. I don't think any mirror looks spotless when a torch hits it at night.

One last thing, I do hear after use in the Spring, pollen can build up on the mirror and this can affect the coating if left for an unspecified period of time, so I will rinse mine at the end of observing season here in Scotland in May for summer storage. 

3 minutes ago, ScouseSpaceCadet said:

Brilliant Mr. Ships. 👍

You've plenty of time to convert your daughter. I left it too late. Once they're in their teens they're lost!

The skies have been terrible here for over a week. Although the missus was dragged to the front door kicking and screaming the other night to look at Mars rising in the east. She actually seemed quite impressed by the bright orange ball and forgave me for dragging her away from the laptop. 🙄

We've had a lot of cloud too - was surprised we had a clear moonless window last night. I'll gently steer my daughter towards an appreciation of the night skies and astro but don't want to drive her away from it. I think living in the same household, they'll get enough growing up around my pile of gear strategically scattered throughout the house! If my wife's not busy she'll pop out for a look without much protest.

3 minutes ago, jetstream said:

This is very good that you are promoting astronomy to your daughter Robert. She might take a few looks here and a few looks there which is all good. I do the same with the eldest G kid, who owns the H130. And what do you know? one day she had friends over for a sleep over and said "Papa can we look through my telescope?". The kids were amazed actually and my grandaughter was very proud of the whole deal.

I'm glad you are doing this for your daughter Robert!

I'll need someone to help me pack the big dob into the van in a few years! 🤣 

No seriously, if she takes a bit of interest from time to time I'll be thrilled. I think the key is letting her have a look through the 500p sometime when's she's a little older from a dark sky site at things like M42, M57, Rosette, Veil, Whirlpool, Markarian's Chain, etc. If that doesn't stoke the fire, then I'll leave it!

North Uist was one of the short-listed sites for this spaceport. I have to say I'm very relieved it's not going there for a number of reasons, but now it's well on its way to being fully approved for a remote part of Sutherland. Mixed feelings and probably more than a few arguments from the 59 crofters who own the entire peninsula as a single managed estate I believe. The for camp says money is needed and the population is dwindling, the against camp is obviously concerned about the permanent and substantial change to the landscape and way of life, 

Probably the last of their current concerns, but the location is bang in the middle of the darkest area of night skies in mainland Britain... I hope they switch the lights off between launches. The proposed maximum is 12 launches a year.

A pristine area, and I often get the distinct feeling we're running out of space here on terra firma.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/09/remote-scottish-peninsula-could-be-host-to-spaceport-two-years-mhoine-peninsula-in-sutherland

3 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Yes keep aiming to retain her interest, we went as a family to attend Kielder starcamp Spring and Autumn for several years, she loved that and still loves to go camping. She had absorbed the notable distinction of a dark sky and the Milky Way as encountered from a remote camping site and has stuck with her.

The pipe, yep quite a flattering remark, the 14" dobsonian, she had referred to as the water cylinder, usually nowadays less flattering remark; that junk in the corner. 

If my daughter walks away with some appreciation of astronomy and the nights skies, them I'm happy if she doesn't take too it like I have (probably a good thing at times!).

My wife is actually pretty accommodating on the whole and just ignores my telescopes which I'm very happy with! She actually wanted to be an astronaut when she was younger, even well into her teens, so there is more than a passing interest for her but her work schedule leaves her drained by the time the stars are out, if she's not still typing away. On occasion she's popped out for a look at the moon which is breathtaking if you've not seen it through a decent scope before.

My daughter's still a little young for camping, we were going to camp in the garden but she bailed out on me after an hour and wanted her bed! We'll work on that before we venture too far afield...

@scarp15 yes I'm not sure how long my daughter will keep any level of interest, but she does have a passing amount at the moment. I'll try the moon again and she keeps talking about Saturn, but that's really low in the sky with the buildings here.

The pipe, eh?? I kind of like that...

Clear transparent skies early this evening out walking with the family. Pointed out Mars, Saturn and Jupiter to my small daughter who seemed really excited. Vega and Deneb were just starting to show in the dusk.

At home I asked my daughter if she wanted to see her first galaxy in real life. (Andromeda naturally!) so after an enthusiastic response, I raced to set up the 300p as cloud was soon due. 

Going through a quick collimation and cool down, I located Andromeda in the 9x50 RACI and set focus with the 20mm APM.

Went inside to retrieve daughter who decided if it was dark outside, she wasn't going because there were monsters out there. Hard to argue with that line of reasoning.

After much pleading on my part, she put on her wellies and out we went. I think she expected fireworks and amazing colours that she'd seen in astro photographs I'd shown her from Hubble or La Palma, etc, so being rather unimpressed with what she saw through the eyepiece, she soon demanded to go back inside and insisted she only saw stars, no galaxy...I think in hindsight with the 100deg EP she was holding her head off to the side and looking past it. Maybe. 

I'll have to manage her expectations next time! 🤣 I did momentarily drag my wife away from her laptop and endless workload out to the scope after that. She seemed marginally interested at her first view of a galaxy, and I did get some verbal exclamations from her - she stayed at the eyepiece for a brief while which says a little something, and she was able to spot M32 as well when I hinted there were actually two galaxies in the FOV.

Anyway...since the scope was set up and cooled, dad naturally stayed on for a solo hunt. Spent a lot more time on M33 again, getting eyes adjusted etc. M32 was coming through clearly as well -  quite bright. Poking around for M110 - that finally came through as a very faint patch, but still relatively well defined. 

Next, the OIII went on the 20mm and over to the Veil. Decent enough views of the E & W Veil, with a patchy hint of Pickering's Triangle/Wisp.

Actually, the E & W Veil tonight were pretty darn good under the prevailing LP (19.8-20.2 sqm normally, perhaps up to 20.35 on an exceptional night). I should note we are luckily in a 'dark spot' in town without street lights or direct LP, shielded by taller unoccupied buildings that don't have their dozen (yes 12) exterior LED lights on pointed at our house...because I complained incessantly until they got tired of me moaning! There is no one in the buildings at night and very little crime around here, so I also promised I'd keep an eye out for any funny business. The squeaky wheel does get the grease sometimes! 👍

Anyway, after the Veil, I thought I'd chase up the Crescent Nebula since the OIII filter was in place. Bumping the dob around slightly below Deneb, I caught a faint patch of something and stopped and concentrated. Not 100% but it was starting to materialise. One small trick that works for me is to quickly swap eyes - for a fleeting second or two, my other eye seems to give a bit more contrast and larger dark-adapted pupil I think. That confirmed it was the Crescent, but not too impressive I have to admit, having seen it recently under very dark skies with the big dob. Still, it was a hit...

After that I started seeing wisps of high cloud popping up, so quickly over to M57. It was quite small naturally with the 20mm, so I went all out and dropped in the 9mm APM XWA (note: I love this eyepiece for PN and most galaxies - it's killer. Almost didn't bother buying it). After a nice eyeful of M57 at 167x though with a rather tiny 1.83mm exit pupil I popped the OIII on the 9mm and that made a huge difference - the Ring Nebula was totally isolated against the sky background and seemed to really glow.  The OIII certainly did the trick with contrast, even at that small an exit pupil. Not a necessity on M57, but does offer a different view worth trying.

For my grand finale, I thought I'd be a bit silly and put the 9mm on the 2x powermate for a bash at 334x (hey don't know till you try!) but by the time...cloud had rolled in.

The future plan is to gently chuck, er, nudge, the family in the van along with the 300p and nip out of town about 10-15 minutes to set up at my nearest decent dark sky spot in the 21.2-3 sqm region, which is a big, big step up from home. I think that will make enough difference to interest my daughter and wife in some of the brighter sights, especially if I shamelessly bribe my daughter with biscuits. Also, we'll be able to see the Milky Way which I've promised her, so that might be the best approach without any scopes or bins.

If you made it this far - give yourself a pat on the back and thanks for wading though all this - I've written a book this time! 

4 minutes ago, randomic said:

I'm no expert regarding EEVA but I will do my best to give you as much information as I can:

1 & 2) You'd probably want a colour cam so that you can live-stack colour images. However, getting a camera with a big sensor gets expensive real fast. Plus you want to make sure that your pixel size gives you a good image scale (0.2-0.5 "/pixel for planetary, 2-2.5 "/pixel for DSO, roughly speaking). This calculator can help here. So you kind of have two options:
    a) Big sensor with relatively big pixels and your scope at native focal length for DSOs, and then for planetary you slap a barlow on.
    b) Smaller sensor with small pixels and use a reducer for DSOs and native focal length for planetary. This option could be cheaper at the expensive of field flatness in DSOs. Great planetary cams are ASI 224MC, 290MC and 462MC

3) SharpCap is pretty well renowned, Oacapture has live stacking capabilities too and so does ZWO's ASIStudio

4) You need something with enough power to do encoding for the livestream. You're not going to be streaming rapidly changing frames so you can get away with a much lower bitrate than, say, game streaming. It's really hard to say up front. You might just have to get set up and adjust the bitrate until you're at a happy balance between cpu usage and stream quality.

5) Depending on how faint the target is, yes.

6) As with 4, you shouldn't need a huge bitrate for this so I would say bandwidth isn't too big an issue.

7) I think it would be awesome and I've thought about doing something similar. I might give it a go from home just as a proof of concept.

Thank you randomic! Yes the cameras I'm lusting over are getting horribly expensive in a hurry.

 I've been chatting to vlaiv and Adam J over on the other camera forum - I think I'm going to continue using my wonderful D810 for now and bin the daylights out of it (6x6) and see what that does.

Vlaiv pointed out Sharpcap might not work with DSLRs but he's dug up a link to a ASCOM driver for DSLRs! Amazing.

This whole idea might work after all!

👍

5 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

Not sure if Sharpcap can work with DSLR cameras. Maybe best approach would be to search for Nikon ASCOM driver.

I know there is Canon ASCOM driver - there could be one for Nikon as well. With that driver, you can use any ASCOM capture application.

Oh, well, this seems to be sorted (a bit of fiddling to install it required):

https://github.com/vtorkalo/ASCOM.DSLR

Excellent, thanks again. I'll start with the D810 and keep my eyes out for a deal on a dedicated camera if the need still exists. The D810 is a brilliant all-around camera anyway. I bought it new about five years ago, been flawless, and have three spare batteries so I can image for long periods nightly. 

Shall look into the ASCOM link - appreciate you looking this up.

Just now, vlaiv said:

If you can, try to use whole sensor. It does not matter if there is vignetting if you can take sky flats (or have 20" flat panel ). Live stacking can be flat corrected as well.

Remember, Live stacking is about observing / detecting in short time (in digital domain) and not about getting nice image - so don't be afraid to really bin your data in software. I think that most people will enjoy final image that is about 1000px - 1500px in size. With 7360px in width, you can easily bin by x6 for massive SNR improvement on single sub.

Excellent! Looks like I'll be hanging onto the D810 for a while. Sky flats are no problem. Next step - learning how to bin... I have a bit of reading to do now. Thinking Sharpcap is the way to go over DSS live, that will be my next decision.

I really appreciate the information! I'd be lost otherwise. 

4 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Great image. 

Thank yuo. I realise I'm not going to have true astrophotography quality, esp with an alt/az mount, but my main goal is to view fainter objects from home by live stacking/EEVA and capture some record shots of what I've looked at.

Image quality is always a bonus though!

Thanks very much for the information @vlaiv and @Adam J 👍

3 minutes ago, Adam J said:

Its not a terrible idea to use the DSLR as above it will not be illuminated but nothing is forcing you to use the entire sensor. 

Adam

 

Agree Adam - I'll probably start that route again. I had good luck with it earlier this year actually. It has a ton of crop modes, from 5:4 down to APS-C. 👍

I'll have to think about a dedicated astro camera as the FOV/larger sensor I'd like is going to cost me. Hope work stays busy!!

Just now, vlaiv said:

I would actually recommend you start with that.

Only drawback is it not being cooled, but for the time being and with short exposures, I think you can live with that.

Additional problem is finding CC that will correct and illuminate full frame sensor, however, I don't think that you need sophisticated one. FOV will also be much nicer and you can bin quite a bit to get really good SNR in short exposure.

Thanks very much Vlaiv - I was doing hundreds of 6" exposures with the D810 back in March without any problems. It also has 5:4 crop mode, a mid-range crop mode between full-frame and aps-c, and of course, APS-C crop mode itself which reduces files sizes and gives a nice well-illuminated image. 

I will at least start with that since it is in hand. I was able to image some very faint galaxies earlier this year from my relatively bright home with good results. 

1 minute ago, Adam J said:

It eats into back focus slightly but I dont think that will be a big problem with that scope. 

No it shouldn't be, my mind is racing now. I just looked at the ZWO ASI 071MC-PRO. 

Perfect FOV but a lot of money as with the 294! 

I wonder if decent astro cameras hold their resale value very well, or if something better comes out each year...

Just now, Adam J said:

Well the ES HR corrector is supposed to be fantastic at F4 so I am sure it would work well with the 294mc. But hey if you cant afford it then you cant afford it. I am sure you would be pleased with the 533 and it is worth trying the SW CC in my opinion. The come up second hand all the time so you would not lose anything if it did not work out. It will be quite a bit faster than the ES HR when you take into account the HR Barlow and the SWs reduction. 

 

I will start looking for a Sky Watcher CC Adam! Thank you. 

26 minutes ago, vlaiv said:

With such focal length - I would go with real estate rather than "performance" - however, real estate also costs and that is a problem with limited budget.

If you can, depending on your EEVA expecations, go with mono version - it will be better but it will of course only provide monochromatic images (very much like visual on most targets). I don't think you want to mess with filters, so if you really want color - then of course OSC camera is better.

ASI294 is probably better choice with respect to your focal length and even that camera will give you half a degree FOV.

Not sure if there is focal reducer that will work on F/4 newtonian together with coma corrector and illuminate 4/3 sensor size. What you could try, but that will eat most of your budget, is something like this:

https://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/info/p9779_TS-Optics-NEWTON-Coma-Corrector-0-73x-Reducer---2--Connection.html

 

Not the cheapest hobby eh?? 🤣

I agree real estate over performance, though it sounds like the 294 would give a bit of both.

The TS newton CC and reducer is a beauty but yes, that's also a lot of money! Wow, maybe I'll live with a bit of coma this year...or lose some FOV.

I wonder if I could just keep plugging away with my Nikon D810 and stack those? It has a tethering option. Huge file sizes though (36 megapixel)

A dedicated astro camera is bound to be the better option. 

2 minutes ago, Adam J said:

 

With the smaller sensor of the 533 you may also get away with the SW CC with its 0.9x reduction at F4. Not much but it gets him down to F3.5, unlikely it would not be up to the task with the 294 though. 

Adam

Hi Adam, I have the Explore Scientific HR coma corrector, but think it has 1.05 or 1.15x barlow effect, so the wrong direction there! I looked at the 294 just now, looks awesome but yeah, a bit much money! I'd have to sell a few bits, but need to do that anyway. I do like the 294 as well though - good suggestion. I will think on that, I like the FOV very much. 

1 minute ago, Adam J said:

 

I think that the 533 is a good choice for ease of use in live stacking. I would just have a preference for the cleaner sensor over the 294 despite it being the larger sensor but it depends on what you want to view with it and if those fit into the FOV with the smaller sensor or not. I suspect we are talking about small galaxies and planetaries and globs?  But if mostly galaxies then I would be going mono with very short subs to try and beat the seeing 2s or so as you wont get great colour rendition anyhow. The new ASI294mm pro is a good choice for that...pricey in comparison to a 533 though. 

Thank you Adam - a larger FOV is preferable. Yes indeed, galaxies and PN are definitely on the list, globulars too. I'd like to image/stack/live view the smaller nebulae that will fit into the FOV but realise at 2000m focal length, I can't have it all!

Hi all, any suggestions on an excellent, yet 'affordable' dedicated astro camera for live stacking on a 20" 2000mm f4 dob with alt/az goto tracking? In other words, for EEVA viewing real time on a laptop? The alt/az tracking mount can do up to 6" sec subs with a DSLR without star trails.

I like the ZWO ASI 533MC-PRO but I don't know anything really about astro cameras and this is really absolute maximum budget - less £££ is better of course! Is the 533 overkill?

Looking for max field of view, quality output and ease of use. Do focal reducers work, or do they create more problems?

Ideally this post complements my other post in the EEVA section which asks a veritable slew of novice questions...😄

Thanks for any camera suggestions...

Hello all, really excited about this idea, but lots of questions. I'd like to share the views though my 20" scope rather than me simply posting observing reports telling everyone how great last night was...(assuming it was clear! 🤣)

Therefore, I'd like to try live streaming EEVA from my 20" f/4 Stargate dobsonian so friends, family and of course other astronomers can view online. Ideally from a dark sky site using 4G+ data if possible, otherwise from home with the downsides of light pollution, but also the benefits of mains electric and broadband. Viewers could also perhaps request certain targets like faint galaxies or nebulae online.

I used a full frame Nikon D810 DSLR back in March set on interval mode, and found I can stack photos in DSS (not DSS live yet) up to 6-8" exposure max on this alt az goto mount without star trails and get some great results quite quickly. This scope naturally gathers a ton of light, and I think EEVA would be nothing short of spectacular, especially under dark skies.

@Victor Boesen and @randomic kindly suggested OBS (Open Broadcaster Software) last night for the live streaming 'platform', then Twitch as the live streaming 'channel' anyone can watch from home. I downloaded OBS and signed up for Twitch, easy enough. 

However... I've never done any EEVA before so kindly asking:

1.) ** Update on the camera aspect - going to stick with the Nikon D810 for now as aps-c to full frame astro cameras are downright expensive!** Which dedicated astro camera would provide excellent results - naturally as cheap as possible but with a fairly wide field of view? 

2.) Would something like a 0.5x focal reducer in 1.25" or 2" give a wider, faster FOV and still keep decent image quality? Or a no-no with insanely fast focal issues/edge distortion, etc?

3.) Which live stacking software (on Windows 7 or 10) is easiest for astrophotography dummies like myself? Which one does the best job? 

4.) My old laptop is getting replaced soon. What are minimum specs in the RAM/processor/graphics side of things? I've an SSD to swap in, so covered there.

5.)  Would I be able to see colour in nebulae and planetary nebulae after a few minutes of live stacking? Or never?

6.) Would I be able to live stream from my campervan using 4G at a dark sky site, or am I dreaming? Is broadband the only viable option?

7.) An interesting idea, or a waste of time and money? Honest opinions welcome.

Any help on any of the questions above would be much appreciated, or any other important, key aspects I might have missed here. 

Cheers all 👍

15 minutes ago, Victor Boesen said:

That would definitely be possible! I would love to do something like this if I had a permanent setup and observatory. This could be done on youtube, twitch, facebook, mixer, and the list goes on. I would imagine setting it up wouldn't be too difficult either. OBS is a very versatile software for this, and you can make it record certain windows like firecap, APT and etc.

15 minutes ago, randomic said:

That would be awesome. You could pretty easily use something like OBS

Thank you both, I'll have a look at OBS and dig around online on how to do this. The main problem is I don't have an observatory, at home would be possible if I set my laptop up in the van next to the scope like an outdoor computer room.

If I was at a dark sky site with 4G+ data, wonder if that would have the speed to stream video? I've two leisure batteries and a couple of li-ion power banks so plenty of off-grid juice to run things.

I'll start a new thread tomorrow and ask which camera would be a good choice for this application....

PS back on topic, the supply chain is stop/start in many retail areas. Kayaks/paddle boards quickly sold out this summer and many retailers are struggling to restock it seems, even now.

Going slightly off-topic (but not entirely) would it be possible to live stream video footage/stacked images from a telescope? I assume there's some fancy astro EEVA camera (Atik/ZWO etc) that's up to the task. The idea being those that don't have a scope can view the feed online from home...

Would be interesting to stream some footage from the 20" dob if that's possible with an alt az goto mount.

Excellent job Mark, it makes a huge difference having some wheels on this size scope. I'm still trying to figure out an elegant solution for mine, but the base is a thin circular cast metal affair so not much area to work with.

You'll be up and running quickly with this set-up 👍 

1 hour ago, ParallaxPete said:

Nice writeup 😀

I've been looking for some observing sites in that area to take advantage of the dark skies (found a nice site up by the Lecht I'll be going to). I believe most of the area is Bortle 2, which is nice. Even though I've been in the north east for over 40 years I think I've only been up in the cairngorms a couple of times before.

Thanks, yes there are a number of good viewing spots with decent parking well off the main roads in the Cairngorms as well as the Eastern Glens off the A90 - Clova, Tarfside, Glenn Doll etc.  I've found it to be pretty safe with no problems, and people are used to seeing the odd car or van parked up with all the walkers and campers about. Up near the Lecht wold be great, snow permitting in the winter of course if the snow gates are open (and a handy cafe right at the top! - same as Glenshee). Great elevation to dodge the dew but generally quite windswept of course.

Large areas around there showing anywhere from 21.75 to 21.94SQM, so a solid Bortle 2 going on Bortle 1. About as good as you'll get when the wind isn't howling and transparency is there. Gets bitterly cold of course, but I wear a cheap insulated boiler suit or a thermal undersuit for drysuit diving,  easier to move around in than the boiler suit.