Ships and Stars

On 18/09/2020 at 22:38, mark81 said:

Thanks for the wonderful report. Very enjoyable read ... I've looked at a pair of those Pentax 20x60s a number of times and look forward to hearing more about them and how they compare to the others...

The only problem is, the pair of 11x70s I have been using were borrowed and had to go back... So reports like this get me thinking...

Mark

I really like the Pentax for all-around use, they're great in the daytime as well and are small and light in comparison to the Helios. Much smaller and lighter, but still substantial, if that makes sense!

I'm hooked on the Apollos for their filter threads however - my TeleVue Nebustar II filter arrived and I finally got to try it last night with UHC on the other side under 21.64 skies. The E & W Veil were easily in the field of view and Pickering's Triangle was very faintly visible - more dark adaptation would have probably brought that out more.

But if you don't find and Apollos, it's still possible to hold some filters up to the eyepieces, so any decent binoculars will do! I plan on keeping my low-end Celestrons, they've been great.

12 hours ago, scarp15 said:

Can appreciate that is definitely a hand full and with the uncertainty of high haze and midges on arrival. We are certainly a bit crazy, but nonetheless committed. I hauled my 14" dob into the car on Thursday, the first time out, I later learnt, with it since mid January. This year of course has and continues to be unpredictable and restrictive, yet once set up I felt that I started to relax and the time between just melted away. Gaining in aperture definitely evokes a balancing appreciation for small refractor, binocular observing.

I completely agree! Glad to hear you made it out as well. I just returned from a rather long drive with the 12" and binoculars, the Veil was splendid at last! The view through the 12" almost felt like it was on par with the 20" from the last time I remember it nearly a year ago under decent skies. A short view tonight vs a very long drive, but worth it. Hoping we have some more good nights again soon.

One possible cure for aperture fever is spending hours preparing and packing a 20" dob, batteries, step ladder, camping gear, food, coffee, stove etc around to your dark sky site 60-ish miles from home because the forecast shows two very clear nights, then have nothing but high haze with a few midges swarming around! Then return home, unpack and clean everything, haha. I saw a very hazy Eastern Veil for a few minutes Wednesday night, then gave up and got some sleep. Thursday night the same. SQM was showing a max of 21.25 instead of 21.75-21.9, that's how humid/hazy it was unless there was high cloud I couldn't see.

Forecast tonight looking excellent again, but I'm packing the 12" non-goto dob and binoculars this time if I have the energy to drive out once the kids are asleep!

It does of course give stunning views when everything comes together, but it can be frustrating when it doesn't!

I'm seriously thinking about finding a semi-permanent home for the 20" dob in a shed or cabin, etc on a farm or estate somewhere remote so I don't have to pack it around all the time.

3 hours ago, Mark at Beaufort said:

I have the 15x70 Apollo binos and use them quite often with filters attached. I use the TeleVue Nebustar II on the one side and a Lumicon UHC on the other - excellent combination. I sometimes replace the Lumicon with an Astronomik O-III and don't find it too bad.

 

My Nebustar II arrived today, can't wait to try it out! Never been so excited about a tiny piece of glass

12 hours ago, jetstream said:

Can you see that detached patch between Pickerings Wisp and the tip of the Western Veil? this is a good start IMHO. Labelled "E"

No joy last night! High haze moved in again. The daytime was brilliant though. Still a good evening but not much in the way of astro! I'll keep an eye out for E though.

Nah, dob it is on second thought! Haha.

2 hours ago, jetstream said:

and snow lol!

When we were in the Barbados years ago a local guy who had been up here coined "your from the land of ice and snow!"

Robert the Wisp's "faint thread" is easily seen in my 200mm dob, but transparency is key. I would take a very transparent 21.3 sky over a less transparent higher SQM. UK observers who unfortunately observe through lower transparency skies are probably among the best anywhere under clear dark ones. Keep up the good work!

I'm trying here! Along with everyone else. The weather today in NE Scotland was superb, hardly a cloud. Looks set to continue. I need to be away early tomorrow morning, so might stick to binoculars tonight and do a grand tour. 

Sounds like very good conditions there, especially if you were able to follow the wisp down from my novice perspective. Hazy views with the 20" here last night, getting readings of 21.3 instead of 21.8 or 9 on a stunning night. I'm set up again, forecast clear with a potential for repeat of high haze, humidity in the 90+ range. He who dares, wins! 

I think when we suffer poor weather here we live vicariously through your observations. No pressure! Haha. Might be a boatload of disgruntled astronomers emigrating soon to the land of lakes and big skies

2 hours ago, Captain Magenta said:

Thanks, interesting. I clearly have the dark skies box ticked, I guess 50mm of aperture just isn't enough even with the filter, and perhaps the fact I've not seen it before means I have nothing to recognize. A bit like one's first M33: difficult to recognize at the very first attempt, but positively leaps out thereafter. All the scopes I own here in Ireland at the moment are 1500mm FL or longer, with a widest FoV of 1.6 degrees, but I am in temporary possession of a relative's SW Heritage 130p at the moment which with my 18.2 should give me nearly 1.75 degrees. I might give that a go this evening as it involves almost zero set-up.

M

I bet the 130p would give a nice wide view under your skies but I'd go UHC over OIII at that aperture. I cycled around SW Ireland about 15 years ago and ended up staying outside Allihies for about a week (I was a poor but free man at the time!) Wasn't a cloud in the sky for days on end, I got fairly well sunburnt. Slept outside my tent one night because the milky way was just glowing and cast shadows, will never forget it. A wonderful place to relax, Allihies.

PS I did a running review of three binoculars the other night, 12x70 Celestrons, 15x70 Apollos and 20x60 Pentax under 21.15-21.2 skies, good transparency but not super dark. East Veil was easily visible without any filters -  once I'd sussed the location. With UHC on the Apollos, it was buzzing. OIII was too much, isolated but very faint. Pickerings triangle was very faint, West Veil the same as it's transposed with a handful of stars that mask nebulosity. You'll crack it with the 130p under the right conditions.

1 hour ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Is the Veil not very forgiving to magnification? is trying to see it at x107 to much. are we talking very low power x50-x80?

 

Cheers

I find low mag down to max exit pupil works best, and definitely OIII filter for scopes, UHC for binoculars. Higher mag however can boost contrast for light polluted skies.

I actually prefer the wider view through my smaller dob, though the big one shows an incredible amount of detail under dark skies. 

I'll use the 31mm Baader or the 20mm 100 degree APM. I know the ES 25mm 100 degree gets poor reviews in general, but I wouldn't hesitate to take a punt if one turns up for the right price. The 21mm Ethos is of course awesome for this as well.

1 hour ago, markse68 said:

yes i suppose you’re right- it’s all about contrast which won’t change much with these. Ordinary bins though don’t have the huge field

I love the concept and you are correct, huge field of view. They do make everything that much easier to see vs naked eye, city or countryside. 

Under £100, I'll wind up getting another pair. When you get to dark skies, these are fun. 

I had the Kasai wide binos, need dark skies to make them shine. Otherwise any old binoculars will do more under urban skies by giving more contrast at higher mag.

Under a bright milky way, then game on! 

1 hour ago, Stardaze said:

Do you tend to use tripod mounted most of the time? I have tripods and a monopod with ball heads to get me going but id probably add a trigger grip at some point.

I actually use them hand-held most of the time, but it's a workout! A tripod, any tripod, will help immensely  The trigger grip looks interesting and is popular.

Sorry if I got your hopes up on the filter threads! I'd ring FLO, the photo looks like there are threads, but it might just be the eyecup design. They don't mention it in the specs, but do for the Apollos. Sorry about that if I'm wrong!

38 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

The binoculars would give me something when I can't get the dob out, especially for those last minute quick sessions.

There's probably very little difference between the Stellar IIs and the Apollos. It looks like they have filter threads but email or ring FLO to check perhaps?

Completely agree, binoculars have saved me a lot of frustration when an unexpected clear night or even a short break in the clouds comes along and I don't have time to set up the scope. I use them very frequently, they are my grab and go set-up.

The Astronomic UHC-E looks interesting for binoculars, around £60, or just grab an ES or Baader. You can mix filters, a good way to test them out against one another on binoculars of course as they're side by side and you'll have the same dark adaptation.

Too many choices can be difficult sometimes!

8 minutes ago, Stardaze said:

Following this. Am planning on a set of 15x70’s and have read of a few using a singular UHC and blinking? I need a 2” version for my dob (definitely getting the TV one) and so another in 1.25” is going to break the bank.

I do have relatives over in the states though, hadn’t looked at prices there..

Yes I've read about the blinking technique, think that's useful for isolating very small planetary nebula etc. Not tried it myself, but makes sense.

I hear you on the filters. I only have one 2" filter, an Astronomik OIII, they are painfully expensive for a 50mm circle of glass. The 1.25" aren't exactly cheap either!

It's one of those things - filters seem to be such a dark art (no pun intended). Do I go for a cheaper one that might have quality control issues or different transmission wavelengths than advertised, or go with the expensive ones that are a safer bet?

If you go to the states, there are some good deals to be had on filters from what I've seen recently. 

Do the 15x70s you are looking at have filter threads? Some do, some don't. From my experience, filter threads are a must-have personally speaking. The North America Nebula (NAN) with UHC on the 15x70s the other night was stunning. I spent more time on that than the Veil.

Speaking of which, although OIII is the way to go through a larger scope, the opposite seems true with binoculars. I could clearly make out the East Veil with UHC, but it was extremely faint with OIII on the 15x70s. I did side by side comparisons. 

I'll see how well the 1.25" Nebustar does with bins and my scopes, then will consider buying the 2" at some point...

33 minutes ago, jetstream said:

My thoughts too, the new Televue Nebustar II is superb as is their OIII- you need one of these too lol!

I was thinking I'd just hop on a flight to LA, visit Don and bring back a duffel bag of filters  In my dreams.  They are on sale! Much cheaper than here actually. Was tempted to order some and just take the customs/import hit, would still work out well. 

I do hear the UHC-E is kind of a middle-ground, so that still might be of interest for binoculars. I'm glad I bought the Nebustar though, that will see action in the dobs as well. 

PS the North America Nebula through binoculars with UHC filters under rural skies is almost like a neon sign. It just glows. One of the best sights I've had. Maybe hold your UHC up to one side of your binoculars from home? Otherwise head for the countryside when you can! 

Good job on the Blue Snowball and the planets. The Veil is a tricky one. I've taken SQM readings from home. LP map says 20.7, but no way, and I'm in a dark part of town without any direct lighting. It can just be seen where I live under actual 19.9-20.3 SQM (dark end of Bortle 5) with 15x70 bins and UHC, or in my 12" dob with OIII filter. I've done it with an 8" newt, but just. Views aren't very impressive though through any of these and it's very washed out. Bortle 6 or 7 in that case would be a struggle, especially if you've not seen it before.

The Veil loves the OIII filter under darker skies, and I saw the east Veil with binoculars/UHC filter under 21.15 the other night in the countryside. Could also barely make it out without filters, but having seen it before helps a lot here.

I'd recommend going to dark skies first (at least 21.00 if poss) to view with UHC or preferably OIII to get to grips with it, then try it again from home. 

It's so much better under darker skies though if you can take your dob somewhere rural, even for an hour. Good luck!

Yip...the British astronomer, 100%, or the classifieds dude, or...

18 hours ago, PeterW said:

For zenith objects I enjoy lying on the ground, saves the neck and more protected against the wind.

always good to get real SQM data, though new LED lights might give some errors.

Yes agree, often easier to get comfortable on a foam mat or lounge chair for the overhead views than setting up a tripod. A P-mount might be an exception, but I've yet to invest in one of those. 

I do wonder (worry?) about LEDs, they irritate my eyes now even outside of astronomical pursuits. When viewing, I'm usually quite far from any artificial light sources. Miles away, but I suppose that light can filter upwards and travel some distance nonetheless. I can detect glow from Dundee/central belt on the horizon some 60-70 miles away at my really good observing spot. My goal is to make it over to the west coast of Scotland this year, but getting the clear skies there may prove very tricky. I'd almost need to be ready on short notice when a weather window appears. 

Great report - some challenging galaxies spotted through the hazy conditions from the sounds of it. Well done for observing at such a late (early!) time. Usually it's quite difficult for me to observe this time of morning unless I simply stay up the night before!

Comments of course very welcome but an update for anyone browsing this thread - I'm away soon so ordered the Nebustar before the daily shipping cut-off - I gather the UHC-E might be too wide to be of much use, but if I find the Nebustar too restrictive with binoculars, I'll let people know. 

I'll definitely keep the Nebustar at any rate for my dob, but may also pick up a UHC-E for general binocular viewing under dark skies.

I think the Nebustar will work nicely however, given the Astronomik UHC is considered somewhat narrow (according to some - if this is incorrect please feel free to comment) for a UHC but still works well in my 15x70s.

So this thread may turn into a UHC filter review for binoculars!

New moon in a few days and weather looking very clear here, fingers crossed 👍

Hello all,

I've been mixing Astronomik OIII and UHC filters on my 15x70 Apollos and 20/40x100 observation binoculars - the UHC under dark skies is excellent, but the OIII is, not surprisingly, too restrictive for the modest apertures between 70 and 100mm.

Therefore I'm looking to order another 1.25" UHC-type filter for the other side, so I'm viewing in stereo through UHC, and not a UHC/OIII mix. They don't have to be identical UHC-type filters, as the brain merges the two images in my experience.

Based on the rave reviews, I'm really drawn towards the Televue Nebustar II so I can use it with my dobs as well, but the Astronomik UHC-E sounds ideal for binoculars as it is a bit 'looser'. Astronomik states it is particularly geared towards smaller scopes under 5".  

Any thoughts? Has anyone used the UHC-E with binoculars vs a 'normal' UHC? For the record, I'm quite happy with the transmission on the Astronomik UHC, which is probably close to the Nebustar II.

Many thanks in advance.

Agree, excellent report, you put my rambling posts to shame! Certainly a successful night.  Barnard's E and Stephen's Quintet will have to go on my wish list. I picked up the 20/13/9 APM XWAs and a 10mm BCO back in Feb (or March?) and haven't had a lot of time on them yet. The 10mm BCO is excellent for planetary nebulae from what little I've used it thus far, but I really like the 9mm XWA as well. Looking forward to more reports 👍

31 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Yes that Turner 🎨. Thursday night is actually what I am looking at currently to, midges yep hadn't factored them in, will determine location (nowhere close to Kielder) and a breeze, but are steadily I think beginning to diminish down here.

The midges seem to be easing here, fingers crossed. Now Wednesday and Thursday nights are looking clear and I may have picked up a two or three day job not far from my fav dark site. I am plotting this evening! Haha...