Ships and Stars

Confession time for this faint fuzzy addict - first time I've seen Saturn or Jupiter through a telescope! (used binoculars before, but no scope - too low from home). Shame on me  

I left the bins at home tonight and set the 12" dob up in a passing place on a closed road near me but up high enough to get the views.

Seeing was surprisingly good considering how low they are. First was the 13mm APM 100deg at 115x, quite sharp, then the 9mm APM at 167x, just stunning, moons stringing out from Jupiter despite the glow of the sun below the horizon. Banding on Jupiter clearly visible.

Then 2x powermate with the 13mm APM at 231x, not as sharp but still ok! Dropped back to the 9mm APM, the evenings winner.

To top off a great evening, this is the earliest I've ever been home from a viewing session! 🤣 I can sleep tonight!

PS I think John's post has turned into the temporary Great Conjunction forum - thank you John!! 👍

I've managed the horsehead with a 12" dob at a 21.75 site near me but it was faint. Astronomik Hb filter. I was actually using a bit too much magnification. 17.5mm Morpheus. A 25mm eyepiece would have offered a larger exit pupil (5mm vs 3.5mm for the Morpheus). Next time I'll use a simple 25mm plossl. 

I have seen it numerous times with my 20" dob under dark skies, the last and best view was in October this year from a really dark site in the Cairngorms, but it was low on the horizon. Still, I could make out the nose and back of the head. 

Seeing it in the big scope made it easier to see in the smaller one, knowing right where to look.

I have some 20/40x100 obsy bins that take filters. My goal is to see it in those from a dark site. UHC on one side. Hb filter on the other. I think it's possible.

I caught a very, very slight hint of B33 against IC434 with filtered 15x70s that night in October, but no HH. 

As John and others have said, dark, dark skies and excellent transparency, the right exit pupil and with that, the 12" ought to do the trick but it will be very subtle.

The 20" will make it directly observable (but still subtle) under dark transparent skies, but I've never seen it from home in the 20" under 20.35 skies with excellent transparency. That's another goal.

A hood to block out stray light and excellent dark adaptation are essential in my book.

Lead acid batteries will last for years if you don't let them sit for months and go flat. When a lead acid battery drops below around 12.4 volts, sulfation begins to occur which coats the plates inside the battery with fine deposits and prevents the battery from taking or keeping a proper charge. The solution is to put it on a trickle charger or charge it occasionally. 

They are more maintenance than li ion, but everything has a shelf life and if the battery does pack it in, it's a lot cheaper to replace as all the wiring and sockets is independent of the battery as opposed to a li ion pack where it's all integrated.

Anyway, that's my sales pitch!  

PS I do like to mess about with things and am fairly good with making stuff and I am CHEAP, lol, so if you want no fuss/simple then perhaps li ion is the ticket. A lot lighter as well. 

17 minutes ago, Newforestgimp said:

Thank you,

how do you go about the physical connections from the devices to the battery ? 
sorry if this sounds a but dumb but unless there’s a socket on a box I get confused how to DIY it ?

I just use a fused cigarette lighter socket that has battery alligator clamps on the ends of my cables - those just clamp directly on to the +/- battery posts. I'll stick a small plastic storage tub over the top to keep the dew off, or whatever's handy. You can get a two ciggie socket cable and run a dual USB adapter off one, and plug the dew heater into the other. The dew heater controller should have a power out port for the telescope.

Each person's set-up is a little different, so you will have to look online for the right parts.

I also have a charger for my laptop that plugs into a cigarette lighter.  

Beware of cheap three socket cigarette lighter adapters, the wiring is really small gauge for the load it has to carry. You want a good quality cable and socket (s) that's long enough to do the job. 

Maybe draw a simple diagram of everything you need to run, then see how many cig sockets/power ports you need and at what voltage. The laptop charger would be a separate item to buy if you don't have one. 

It all makes sense once you do a bit of searching online for the right bits!

If others have a simpler solution, then naturally that's perhaps more attractive, but mine's not terribly complicated. I do visual only, but I'm sure I could easily run an astrophotography setup off mine in remote areas.

Hi there, I went to Tayna Batteries UK and just bought a van leisure battery. 

They have the Exide 80 amp hour for £62 plus £8 shipping. That's a LOT of reserve power.

With 80 amp hour, you can power everything you want for the whole night and then some, or just run the scope for at least 3 or 4 nights. I can even run a diesel heater and a 150W stereo most of the night off of mine.

The drawback? Big and heavy compared to a li ion pack but not too bad. 27 x 22 x 17cm. A real workhorse and probably half the price of tiny 7 amp hour lithium ion pack. 

If you go that route, you'll need a decent 12v car battery charger as well. I'd just get one from screwfix, etc.

10 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Popped out after a shower as the sky had cleared, went round the corner with the 66mm spotter and nailed them with the zoom at 8mm, very wobbly as they were at tree level. Had a few minutes until game over as the next cloud bank came in... very interesting colour contrast between the planets. Fingers crossed for the next few days! Maybe I could get at least one son to come and have a look.....

 

peter

Trying to get my daughter to take a look tomorrow through the dob if the clouds part long enough. My wife is onboard and wants to see them as well. Fingers crossed.

Got them tonight! Was using the 40x eyepieces in the 100mm Helios bins on the new TS Optics fork mount, works really well. Nice and sharp. 

There were around half a dozen people waiting on the hill near town, blowing a proper gale with intermittent rain and quite cold. I set up on the leeward side of a high stone wall, or else it would have been impossible with the wind.

Around 4:15 pm it was looking dire, but then a small sliver of sky opened up and... and... there they were.

At 40x the rings around Saturn were nicely displayed, albeit quite small, and next to Jupiter, three moons Callisto, Ganymede and Europa were easily visible.

I wanted to try for some more moons, esp Saturn's Titan, but it was a very short and sweet 10 - 15 minute break in the cloud before it closed up again. 

Hurriedly took an unfocused phone camera shot just as the cloud moved back in and a quick shot of the bins, and back home...

Trying tomorrow with the 12" dob and some higher mag, weather permitting 👍

2 hours ago, Don Pensack said:

Yes, the Myriads are the same optics, as were the William optics version, Stellarvue, et.al.

The difference is the design of the top.

The eyepiece is easier to use with the eyecup folded down.

The 7mm isn't out yet, but is due at APM very soon.

That set is missing the high power ones, the 4.77mm and 3.5mm (those are the focal lengths on the mfr's literature)

Thanks Don! Agree it's easier to use the APMs with the eyecup down, definitely. 

I may order a 7mm XWA this week, that would be 285x in the big scope, ever the optimist for our seeing conditions, but on the right night it will be great for small galaxies, PN, planets, etc in either the 12" or 20" dobs. 

I see APM Germany is showing a 5mm XWA (must be the 4.77) and the 3.5, it would be great to have the entire set, but I doubt I'd ever be able to really use them with our seeing conditions in my 20" dob (f4, 2000mm focal length). The 5mm would be 400x and the 3.5 would be 571x. It fun to think about it though.

The 12" dob might respond a bit better with the shorter focal length to the 5mm, but I'd try the 7mm first.

I appreciate all the information as always Don 👍 I have a friend in the states who just bought a scope, I'll point him in your direction for eyepieces.

20 minutes ago, John said:

Anyone on here own a Tele Vue Apollo 11mm ?

I know that Don (Pensack) has one but anyone else ?

If you are nervous about handling a 21mm Ethos, the price tag of the Apollo 11 will make things worse

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/tele-vue-apollo-11-special-edition-eyepiece.html

Or a pair for binoviewers?? 🤣

The 11mm would be a lot lighter, so maybe not quite so bad...or have a 'leave it in the focusser' rule once set up.

1 hour ago, Barry-W-Fenner said:

Lovely set SAS. They have a very nice clean looking design to them. I have read a lot of great opinions of the APM range. I would love to give one a try at some point.

Baz

That was my best product photo, lining them up on the kitchen table, even used filters, 🤣 The anodising seems to be decent, no scratches from the focusser tube yet. I've almost forgotten what the views are like since my last good clear night in October, but seeing was very turbulent. Just going to check the weather this weekend again now for this weekend, there's a chance...

4 minutes ago, Dantooine said:

I am very happy with my apm 20 and it does make me wonder about the rest in the range. Main reason I went for the apm apart from cost was the much lighter weight. I would really like to try the others and the new apm 7 more so. 

Yes, a substantial weight savings, especially on the 20 vs 21E. I weighed mine but can't remember what the difference was, but it's a fair bit. I'd like a widefield 80 Deg plus APM in the 25-27mm range for its exit pupil at f4, but don't think they do one. Nagler territory!

56 minutes ago, John said:

They do look nice

I've often wondered if they are optically the same as the Myriad 100's. I think Don Pensack might have confirmed that they were when I asked the question a while back on another forum but I can't remember for sure. I'll have to try and find that thread on there. They look very similar apart from the design of the top section / eye cup.

 

I think they are the same John, that seems to be the verdict, but as you say, Don might know something in particular? Coatings could be different or some small technical detail but I'd guess being mass produced, they're all the same creatures. I might get a 7mm XWA at some point for small galaxies, was surprised how well the 9mm worked on them. With high magnification plossls or orthos it's hard for me to find objects and really easy for me to lose them... The wide FOV is handy there.

2 minutes ago, globular said:

"They stand well" as my dad would say.

Indeed! I was a bit proud when they arrived, so did a family portrait, haha

11 minutes ago, Paul73 said:

That is quite an advert for the APM range. @Ships and StarsDo you use them with a coma corrector?

Paul

I'm really happy with them for the money. They are the only eyepieces (besides my 10mm Baader Classic Ortho) that I have ever bought new after trying the 20mm one night against the 21E. I could easily live with the 20/13/9 and my powermate. 

I have an Explore Scientific HR coma corrector, a lot like the Paracorr with a tunable top, but to be honest, I don't use it that much in either my f4.9 or f4 scope. The f4 scope does show a noticeable improvement with a CC, but I only really notice if I'm viewing something like star clusters. When viewing nebulae, it doesn't seem to bother me at all. If I'm in a fast dash mood and changing eyepieces a lot, I'll skip the CC, if I'm relaxed and going for top views, then CC it is. The view with the 20mm and CC at f4 is very nice.

I really like my APM 100deg EPs, the 20mm would be my favourite out of all my eyepieces. I have the 20/13/9mm set.

The APMs offer near Ethos (some say equal!) performance at a price that won't make you cry as much if you drop one on the floor. 269EUR for the 20mm APM vs £819.00 for the 21mm Ethos. That's why I sold my 21E and bought the three APMs with the money. I loved the 21E but was a bit nervous using it in the dark. I change eyepieces and filters frequently and rush around a lot when fatigued, so it was only a matter of time before I accidently pinged it off the concrete one night with cold fingers or *gasp* it somehow rolled out of my van at a dark sky spot.

Imagine a walker coming across this strange heavy black and green lump covered in frost, then googling 21mm Ethos...while I was at home sleeping the next morning🤣 The stuff of nightmares!

So that's the main reason I sold the 21E. Lighter as well. My only complaint is that the eyecup isn't as comfortable as the 21mm Ethos I had, a bit too stiff, so you have to push your eye into it to get the full FOV and the 21E had a bit more immersive feel, but that was intensive side by side comparisons. With just the APM I don't think anyone would be upset. 

I would love it if APM made a 23-25mm 100 deg EP, even if the edges weren't perfect, just for larger nebulae.

Anyway, really happy with the APMs. 

1 hour ago, jetstream said:

Over on Reiner Vogels site there is a whole host of maps to download, including Sharpless and also Alvins Faint Fuzzies has great ones too. The astronomers mentioned above are among the best IMHO.

Hickson 55 seemed not that hard to me but I was happy to have 4 appear, but knowing there is 5- more work to do! (fun work)

Thanks Gerry, this will keep me busy! HCG 55 sounds possible under the right conditions. Hopefully this weekend, but it's still pretty grim weather here at the moment. Weekend looking better. Been ages since I've had a clear moonless night, mid October I think.

8 hours ago, jetstream said:

Off topic, but have you seen Hickson 55? another favourite over in Draco. I got 4 of them so far with the 24" and is well worth the time.

No I haven't yet Gerry - I couldn't sleep last night so did some research on it. Looks like a proper challenge, very faint! I looked on Stellarium with ocular view, they are tiny but high up, so looks like a good target if I ever get the weather. This weekend looking possible once the moon is down, but very windy again. Is there a catalogue of the ones in the Northern Hemisphere? I seem to recall you or Piero receiving a catalogue in the post. Might have been ARPs? But I will remember Hickson 55 now! 👍

7 hours ago, Nyctimene said:

P.S.: have a look at Uwe's Website; a cornucopia of excellent drawings. He is the co-author of the Interstellarum Deep Sky Guide

http://www.deepsky-visuell.de/

These are excellent, some highly challenging targets in there. Thank you! PS I originally typed 'Stephen's Quintet, but now realise it is Stephan's not Stephens's. Sorry! 🤣

I've signed it. We live in a dark part of town due to a couple of factors, the primary reason being me repeatedly asking local businesses to turn off their 12 (yes, 12) rear LED lights after they close. They used to stay on ALL night, and no one can see them except us. The streetlights in town near us have hoods, and it helps quite a lot to reduce overall town LP, though off is better of course.

Crime-wise, I find when it's totally dark, people stick to the other streets and don't wander down our lane which ends on private property anyway. It's usually to use the toilet after filling up at the local pub  When the lights used to stay on it invited people to wander down in our direction.

Now that it's dark here, I set up a series of small hidden motion sensors around our property. They are linked via radio frequency (no wifi needed) to a handheld receiver I keep by my desk or bed that gently chimes when the motion sensor is tripped, so if anyone does come onto our property at night, I am immediately alerted. I simply mute the receiver or turn it off when out doing astro, so my wife doesn't go bonkers! It works extremely well and no false alarms.

If my receiver does go off and I see some rogue villain lurking outside, I have a high mounted 4000 lumen LED floodlight (downward pointing of course!) I manually switch on for a few seconds to blast the intruders, then I switch it back off so they lose all dark adaptation 🤣 They know they've been clocked after this and leave for the normality of the high street. This is a very rare event.

35 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Well at least you gave it a go, must say that for the NE and I know you are further north than I am, it does look potentially better for the weekend. Will be interesting to hear if you get another attempt at this and a decisive spit. 

I zigged when I should have zagged Iain, haha, had a play with the 20/40x100 binoculars on the TS optics fork mount, they work quite well, should be a treat under dark skies. Looking through the binocular refractors, I noticed my left eye has noticeable astigmatism, can't blame it on reflector coma, but it is tolerable. Might go the TV dioptrx route someday when it worsens. 

I think Sunday night might be ok, fingers crossed, that's still a few days out though if the forecast is close.

At least I saw some stars again tonight, it's been ages with this weather, hopefully the persistent stretch of rain we've probably all had up north is gone now.

Good luck to you this weekend!

20 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Robert, a vg goal is breaking up NGC 7318 into individual galaxies- what a sight! Watching 2 galaxies in the process of merging is pretty cool if you ask me. The 10 BCO makes short work of them in good conditions, the VIP is useful as well  and in my case a vg sample of a KK 7mm ortho is always on deck. Play with the mag....

Good luck!

It's a struggle tonight Gerry! Drove to my local dark spot, rain set in. Back home and put the big dob away, clear. Got obsy bins out now and having a play, haven't used them with the new fork mount yet. 

Saturday night is looking clear all night, hoping to try again once the moon is down. 

That's the way it goes sometimes! If I had just set the 20" up at home, at least I would have caught NGC7331 and maybe some fleas

PS I was looking at photos of NGC 7318, must be an incredible sight to see two galaxies colliding in real life (minus however many light years away they are!)

21 hours ago, Nyctimene said:

Reminds me of my observations with the then new 13.1" Odyssey under 21+ mag skies three decades ago. Three components separable during moments of good seeing (was way less experienced in DSO observing), but not impressive. I'd give it a try with your 12"; but the three brighter galaxies of the Deer Lick group, the "fleas", are easier and more rewarding.

Stephan

Thank you! I've decided it's all or nothing until at least January 10th so going out tonight.

The weather is showing a small possibility of a clear spell around 8pm tonight so why not. I was pleasantly surprised to easily fit the 20" dob in my small car.  I've found the disassembled 20" fits as well in my car as does the 12" flextube. Amazing 👍 

Now let's hope for a clear window of weather tonight, a bit of a gamble... if not, new moon January might be the last chance until the Autumn.

If you don't see a report tomorrow, then the weather was no good!

47 minutes ago, jetstream said:

Absolutely.

The 24" will break up this group into individual galaxies as will your 20" and I personally use orthos or more recently Delos. I had one session under my best conditions that the view was photo like and stunning- I keep chasing that view...it was a combination of fresh , well dark ,adapted eyes and the unusual combination of top seeing and superb transparency.I used between 250x and 357x ( this is why the seeing matters IMHO).

Orthos or ortho like widefields are the way to go and my 10BCO still beats the 10 Delos by a squeak on this stuff.

Thanks Gerry, I have everything but the skies I guess! Hope you've had better weather than we've had here. The 10BCO would be perfect for this. The 9mm APM is the highest mag EP I have (there's a Celestron 8mm plossl lurking around in my desk somewhere). I could barlow the 13mm APM but that would hang off the focuser quite a bit.

I think mid-October was the last time we had anything approaching good conditions and I've been checking all the forecasts at least daily. Looking to shape up a bit hopefully by the end of this week, I might be able to squeeze in a quick session with the 20" before the moon pops up again.

If not, January dear weather gods!

16 minutes ago, scarp15 said:

Resolved aspects of this with my 14" dob, from a dark site on a windy night. I threw everything at it steadily increasing to 5mm, 320x and as Doc mentioned above, managed just to separate into three components. It does require high power and perhaps increasing beyond 320x. Your 20" dob would be the right aperture for this, @jetstream Gerry will have more to say on this subject. 

Edit: Actually just checked my notes, it was 313x I got to with my 6E, the Paracorr had been in use, I was to extend to using a 5XW, but the wind sweeping through the valley was numbing my fingers quite a bit and buffeting the scope. Therefore wind is of course not favourable for this. Had a 5mm been applied, 376x would had resolved more, so go with high power.

Excellent, thanks Iain. I doubt now I'll be able to get the 20" out tonight or tomorrow, maybe this weekend if the forecast is reliable enough, but by then the moon will be up early evening. I think mid-January is looking like my best shot, I bet the 9mm APM will work well on this! Or barlow the 13mm... Cheers

PS just checked Stellarium for January around the new moon on the 12th and 13th and Stephan's Quintet is still high enough to observe just after astronomical darkness. This month is shaping up weather-wise to be a DSO write-off, so hoping January is better.

25 minutes ago, Peter Drew said:

I've seen the Quintet in 10" and 16" Newtonians at Kelling Heath.  The full set in the 16" but less in the 10".  Needs a dark site and good transparency.    🙂

Thanks Peter, I suppose even if I get a hint of it in the 12" then I would call that a success. I don't think I'll have the kind of skies this week I'll need, but always the optimist!

Forecast is showing partly cloudy tonight...with scattered showers. Meh!