Where to put a second pier

[Gina]

I've been trying to think where I can put a second pier.  There isn't room in my present observatory - it's already a bit overcrowded with the MN190 plus dew shield.  I was thinking of the SE corner but the east side wall flap opens inwards - a very good arrangement for the one pier but...  Same applies to the NE corner.  The roof rolls off to the west.  Trouble is my present obsy is already in the best place on the property - the SE corner - so where to put another is a problem.  There is about a foot of clearance between the shed and the boundary fence so one possibility might be a pier in that gap perhaps in the corner.  Some sort of lift off box/roof for weather protection when not in use perhaps, reachable from inside the obsy.

The idea is to have a completely separate pier/mount/imaging rig for widefield.  Then I can do widefield imaging at the same time as narrower stuff on the main mount.  With the weather we have here it's essential to make use of every hour of clear night skies!  The main mount - which will be an EQ8 can take the MN190 and twin Evostar 80ED DS Pros.  The second mount will carry either my triple WF imaging rig or a single 1100D converted to mono and set point cooled with built in filter wheel - plus lens.  With such a lightweight rig the pier doesn't need to be very substantial - maybe even a pipe driven into the ground would do.  This is also where my DIY lightweight mount comes in.

There may well be other possibilities.

[Gina]

Just been out and checked the area.  There's more room to the east than I thought - the obsy was set back a bit to clear an apple tree - I remember now   There's about 2 feet though it's not square (the plot isn't square).

[AndyUK]

Oh wow...  Do we have enough diskspace available for this project...?!

[Tinker1947]

How about adding a extension to your present Obby make it L shaped with the warm room joining both sections.....

[Bizibilder]

How about this sort of thing  http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/122340-a-homemade-freestanding-pier/?hl= freestanding  pier - it is very heavy and therefore "semi-permanent" but can be moved should you want to.  Mine holds polar alignment well over weeks at a time.  You would need a solid base - but a couple of flag stones should see to that.

[Gina]

How about adding a extension to your present Obby make it L shaped with the warm room joining both sections.....

Nice suggestion but I don't think it would be feasible.

[Gina]

How about this sort of thing  http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/122340-a-homemade-freestanding-pier/?hl= freestanding  pier - it is very heavy and therefore "semi-permanent" but can be moved should you want to.  Mine holds polar alignment well over weeks at a time.  You would need a solid base - but a couple of flag stones should see to that.

That's very nice Roger   Unfortunately, I don't have a tame fabricator on hand nor the ability to do it myself

[laser_jock99]

My widefield pier is a 6" steel tube stuck in concrete. Outside is fine for this sort of project as small scopes/cameras are less prone to the wind and you'll get a better all round view. If you make it sturdy enough to hold a big scope then you'll have a second option to image with a larger scope if conditions are right. My outside occasionally gets an 8" scope plonked on!

[Gina]

Very nice   I might do something similar except that I haven't got a pipe.  I could always pour a concrete pier, of course    I need to do some surveying to see where a second pier could go.  When I get my EQ8 I shall have an NEQ6 complete with tripod that I could set up in various places to see what sky views there are.  OR I could use the tripod with my home made mount (if I get to finish it ).  I'm thinking of providing remote PA alignment for this mount and then use AstroTortilla to PA from indoors or from the warm room.  If everything were to be remote controlled, the pier could go almost anywhere where there is a reasonable sky view.

[Gina]

I think I've found the ideal location.  As I thought the "dead" ground around the SE corner of the obsy (and our plot).  There is just about room for a small pier.  Small in ground area, that is.  The space is about 3ft wide between the obsy east wall the boundary but the access is only about 18" due to an apple tree.  I reckon I can do it

Here are some photos (I apologise for the terrible quality) - I'll post more of the view from the proposed pier site later :-

1. Observatory from the north
2. Ditto from the west - from one location I considered fror the 2nd pier but rejected.
3. Looking south showing the obsy and boundary
4. View of the site from above (looking out from the scope room)
5. The current easiest access route.  The old weather station will be removed plus the pole.

       

[nmoushon]

Wow thats a tight spot there Gina. You sure you have enough room to do all the construction work without messing with your current Obsy or compromising the foundations integrity?

My suggestion would be to expand your obsy out towards the white bucket thats on the ground(sorry don't know what direction that is  ). That way you could tie into the existing roof structure. This would allow the roof to roll off with the existing roof and not need a new type of roof movement, whether it be mechanical or manual. You could build it to either cantileaver over or build support rails out. It would also give you almost the exact same sky coverage as your current pier. I think this way would give you the most breathing room around both piers. Thats my two cents anyways. Best of luck.

[Gina]

Wow thats a tight spot there Gina. You sure you have enough room to do all the construction work without messing with your current Obsy or compromising the foundations integrity?

My suggestion would be to expand your obsy out towards the white bucket thats on the ground(sorry don't know what direction that is  ). That way you could tie into the existing roof structure. This would allow the roof to roll off with the existing roof and not need a new type of roof movement, whether it be mechanical or manual. You could build it to either cantileaver over or build support rails out. It would also give you almost the exact same sky coverage as your current pier. I think this way would give you the most breathing room around both piers. Thats my two cents anyways. Best of luck.

Yes, I think there's probably room.  I'll find out for sure when I get in there and clear the ground.

I don't think extending the obsy would be practical in view of the way it's constructed but I'll take a closer look and thank you for your suggestion

[Gina]

I took a series of overlapping photos of the view from the west round to the north-east (with the camera on the corner post) but then ran out of battery power.  I'll take some more tomorrow to complete the panorama.  The latter was produced with Canon's PhotoStitch.

Here's a view to the north from the actual proposed pier position which I took earlier.

[nmoushon]

Yes, I think there's probably room.  I'll find out for sure when I get in there and clear the ground.

I don't think extending the obsy would be practical in view of the way it's constructed but I'll take a closer look and thank you for your suggestion

Obviously I don't know how exactly you've built your obsy so if you say its not practical then I'll take your word on it. Good luck with figuring everything out.

[Gina]

Thank you

[laser_jock99]

Looks a bit tight to me also. If it helps I have around 1m minimum clearance around the outside pier. Even then I'm in danger of falling off that wall if I get my footing wrong!

[Gina]

Once I've built it I won't need to get at it from ground level - I shall reach it from my present obsy (scope room).  I'll draw up a ground plan tomorrow to help make things clearer.

[Gina]

Too wet and foggy for photos today so far.

[Gina]

Weather improved so I was able to take a few photos - none too special but gives an idea   So here's a panorama from just past west to just past east via north.  As before the images that make up the panorama were taken with the camera (1100D with kit lens at 18mm FL) resting on the SE corner post.  The east wall with the flap as seen in this image points 16 degrees east of north.  In this panorama you can see the MN190 in its parked position - the only position that allows the roof to close and the east wall flap to shut.  Wnen I get the EQ8 I won't be using the EQ6 extension tube so the scope will probably be a few inches lower.

[laser_jock99]

Weather improved so I was able to take a few photos - none too special but gives an idea   So here's a panorama from just past west to just past east via north.  As before the images that make up the panorama were taken with the camera (1100D with kit lens at 18mm FL) resting on the SE corner post.  The east wall with the flap as seen in this image points 16 degrees east of north.  In this panorama you can see the MN190 in its parked position - the only position that allows the roof to close and the east wall flap to shut.  Wnen I get the EQ8 I won't be using the EQ6 extension tube so the scope will probably be a few inches lower.

Second Pier Location 11.jpg

I see- you're planning to access Pier 2 from inside the open observatory?

If I ever bought an EQ8 I'd probably have to saw a foot off my existing pier! Something I never originally allowed for!

[Gina]

Yes, that's right.  I could access the old weather station from inside the obsy (with the wall flap open).  I've taken that down now - it's stopped working anyway.  I shall be repositioning the pole carrying the wind instruments soon too.  That job is overdue by a year or two   Occasionally the pole obstructs the imaging.

I'm planning to have the pier about a foot outside the obsy corner post and an inch or two higher.

[Gina]

Been thinking about what sort of pier to use.  I have to bear in mind my diminishing ability to do manual work so anything approaching my previous pier build is way out.  So no large underground concrete block and reinforced concrete pier.  Fortunately I'm only planning for a light load.  I do wonder though if I'm taking too much on

Things that occur to me are :-

1. Fence post driven into the ground
2. Fence post in a steel spike driven into the ground
3. Tripod of iron bars, angle, stakes or whatever driven into the ground
4. Post hole drill used to make hole and iron pipe concreted in

I want something relatively easy to do but rigid enough to support a light imaging rig.

[Gina]

Been searching for pipes...  Enamelled stove pipe would be quite good but they only seem to be available in lengths up to a metre.  However, I have found some bare mild steel pipe 5" diameter and 2m long :- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mild-Steel-Pipe-127mm-5-x-3mm-2000mm-long-Chimney-Round-Tube-/290975729119?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item43bf8145df

Or as a tripod :- http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Galv-Steel-Pipe-33-7mm-OD-2000mm-lg-Round-Tube-CLEARANCE-/290849876699?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item43b800eadb

[nmoushon]

Not sure if you know this or not but the standard for posts being driven into the ground is that you dig a hole that is half to a third of the length that is in the ground. From there the post is pounded in the rest of the way and then back filled. This allow for two things: 1) less energy spent pounding the pier in since the deeper it gets pounded in the more force is needed 2) This allow for your post to be of smaller thickness because theres less resistance force so there less of a chance of the post being bent. This doesn't applie to large solid wood post since they are solid but for round thin metal pipes its a possibility. Also another standard for a stand alone post (one without a foundation slab) is that for whatever distance the post sticks out above ground it has to be in the ground double that length. So If it sticks out 1m it has to be in the ground 2m for a total length of the pier is 3m. Another not with driving a post into the ground is that they are very very very hard to keep straight. It will more than likely not be straight and then will need perminate barcing to keep it straight. Its just the nature of the ground theres no way around it. Even if hired out professionally.

Since you said you want to do the work with minimal physical work then I would suggest hiring a proffesion with a long post hole auger to drill the hole for you. Unless you have the equipment or know a friend. So say you use a 3m long pipe that is the 127mm in diameter. I would get a post hole digger that is as close to at least twice the diameter as the pipe or whatever the auger size that is close to it. The bigger the better but no smaller than twice the diamtere. I would dig the depth to about 1m or so (or what ever you frost depth is) then pound the post down to the final 2m total depth. I would then build up bracing to make sure the post is as straight as possible and the pour concrete in the hole.  Well theres 2 mor cents worth of an idea. Hope it helps.

[Gina]

Well, I've never heard of having the pipe twice as deep into the ground as above.  I think we'd hit bedrock if we tried that here - as it it there's solid hard clay just about a foot down in addition to lumps of flint.  I'm not sure an auger would work here in view of the number of rocks.  We don't generally get a lot of frost here - the climate is quite mild so that isn't a problem.

Thank you for your reply