Telescope help!

[sammy1404]

Hi guys i have recently become interested in astronomy, well ive always been sort of interested but now im really into it especially cosmology. (just so you know im 18 years old)

With the money i got at xmas and my own i want to get a telescope, after looking around for god knows how long i have now pinned down my choices. I definitely want a reflector scope and min aperture of 6 inches. So i have to options, the skywatcher explorer 200p or the skywatcher explorer 200pds goto, both with eq5 mounts. The things i want to see in reletavily good size (i know its difficult because everything is so far lol) quality and colour, planets (especially jupiter and saturn), the moon in very high detail i.e individual craters which i dont think is very demanding of these scopes, stars, clusters, galaxies (definitely m31) and nebulae (especially the crab, orion, ring, eagle and rosette).

So ive got those two choices, my budget right now is about £600 but if i really needed to i could get some from my bank account for the more expensive goto 200pds scope. I have found the 200p at £399 and the 200pds goto at £766. Im just not sure which one to get or if im missing out other telescopes. Please remember i want 8 inches preferably but i would go down to 6 inches if convinced

Ive seen very good reviews for the 200p and with it being the group test winner in the BBC sky at night test. But should i splash out that extra bit of cash for the goto? i realise how amazing goto actually is and how useful and saves plenty of time trying to find one object where as with the 200p it would take some time to find say m31 for example. The other thing that scares me is the tracking, the goto tracks automatically where as the 200p is manual, is it difficult to track objects with a manual scope, surely saturn etc isnt moving that fast (relative to the scope obviously)? But then again the 200p is much cheaper and with the 200p i get an extra eye piece and a 2x barlow which doesnt come with the 200pds. Also i want to learn something from this not just get given the answer.

If you could help id be very grateful because im planning on ordering my scope this tuesday 4th January

thanks

sammy

[Dai150PL]

Do not rush just because of the VAT, get the wrong one and it will cost you much more. If you can see before you buy, how close are you to a telescope shop or a local astronomy society. Otherwise look around the forum and the web then get a scope. And can I borrow your time machine when you have finished with it. (December?)

[sammy1404]

The 200 is 8".

Yeah I know that

[sammy1404]

The 200 is 8". Do not rush just because of the VAT, get the wrong one and it will cost you much more. If you can see before you buy, how close are you to a telescope shop. Otherwise look around the forum and the web then get a scope. And can I borrow your time machine when you have finished with it. (December?)

Oh oops meant January. I wouldn't say I'm rushing been planning to buy one for 5 months now but didn't have enough money so I waited until Xmas. I'm about 30 miles from a telescope shop. Thanks

[Kef9]

Say NO TO GOTO

[CGolder]

Hello Sammy,

Is there any reason that you are going for a EQ mount? as a visual observer you will find that the mount will put the eyepiece on a reflector in some strange positions, a Dobsonian or Alt Az mount like the AZ4 could be alot more convenient for visual. If you have photography in your long term plan you will probably want a mount larger than a eq5 anyway. could save some budget

[Nexus 6]

Oh oops meant January. I wouldn't say I'm rushing been planning to buy one for 5 months now but didn't have enough money so I waited until Xmas. I'm about 30 miles from a telescope shop. Thanks

really handy being so close to a shop, should be a great help.

Good luck with your choice, Go To or not!

Alan

[Bizibilder]

Hi Sammy. Slow down a bit! I think that the first thing you need to consider is where you are going to use and store your scope. If you have a garden that you can use then all well and good if not then transportation (even if only up and down stairs) could be a major consideration. Do you have good views from your site? or would you be better off with a moveable scope (maybe a few trees in the way for example?

Anyway, having considered all that it seems that you are interested in DSO's as well as the Moon and planets. For that I would recomend something with reasonable aparture - your suggestion of 200mm (8") sounds about right. Then the mount - the choice here is Equatorial or dobsonian (which is an altazimuth). If you have a fixed site and the possibility of some simple photography the the EQ mount is best for you. If you want to do mainly visual work then the Dob would be the best choise. You can get an unmotorised Dob for around £265 or a motorised one that will track the skies for £465 - both from FLO - see banner at TOP.

Hope this helps.

[sammy1404]

Hello Sammy,

Is there any reason that you are going for a EQ mount? as a visual observer you will find that the mount will put the eyepiece on a reflector in some strange positions, a Dobsonian or Alt Az mount like the AZ4 could be alot more convenient for visual. If you have photography in your long term plan you will probably want a mount larger than a eq5 anyway. could save some budget

well I spoke to someone who sells telescopes and he said it is easier to look at deep sky objects with an eq and dobs aren't as good at it. I am planning to do photography but not serious stuff. I might consider a dob though I've seen a skywatcher 8 inch dob for £280.

[sammy1404]

Hi Sammy. Slow down a bit! I think that the first thing you need to consider is where you are going to use and store your scope. If you have a garden that you can use then all well and good if not then transportation (even if only up and down stairs) could be a major consideration. Do you have good views from your site? or would you be better off with a moveable scope (maybe a few trees in the way for example?

Anyway, having considered all that it seems that you are interested in DSO's as well as the Moon and planets. For that I would recomend something with reasonable aparture - your suggestion of 200mm (8") sounds about right. Then the mount - the choice here is Equatorial or dobsonian (which is an altazimuth). If you have a fixed site and the possibility of some simple photography the the EQ mount is best for you. If you want to do mainly visual work then the Dob would be the best choise. You can get an unmotorised Dob for around £265 or a motorised one that will track the skies for £465 - both from FLO - see banner at TOP.

Hope this helps.

I live out in the country side with a fairly big garden. Minimal light pollution and not many buildings etc blocking any views so a good 360 view of the sky.

[perrin6]

Manual tracking with a dobsonian mount, even at high power is no problem as long as it is well made & sturdy with smooth motion. I usually observe planets at 300X, normal 55 degree field of view quite easily in my dob. I don't know how good the skywatcher dob mount is though.

An 8 inch dob is a great instrument for virtually every type of observation - great for moon & planetary detail, double stars and nebulae (in mid - low light pollution) and one well worth keeping even if you get other scopes later. It's the great all-rounder. You can just 'bung' it out for a quick session or 'throw' it in the boot for a trip to a dark sky. (Needs at least 45 minutes for temperature equalization for detailed high power views, although you can speed this up with a tube-mounted fan).

Ooh I wish I still had one (mouth waters slightly!).

[Dai150PL]

Good luck with your decision sammy, let us know what you decide. I think the 200 on a eq5 with motors would be a great start.

[sammy1404]

ok i think ive now changed my mind with the 200pds (goto) and i am now torn between the skywatcher explorer 200p eq5 and the skywatcher skyliner 8 inch dobsonian... this is driving me crazy lol, such a big decision, any ideas guys? i really want to see some good DSO's so which one would be better?

[CGolder]

I personally would go with the Dob, easyier to track with a dob than a eq mount with no motors.

better viewing position and easier to star hop with up/down left/right.

The setting circles on the lower end eq's are not worth much and star hoping is much simpler.

[Dai150PL]

Hi sammy, head hurting yet. You can add motors or goto later, so is it dob or EQ?

[sammy1404]

I've decided that I'm going to buy the skywatcher skyliner 8 inch dob for £280. If you have any reasons why I shouldn't please speak now

[Hypernova]

Good decision on the dob Sammy

I have been using one for about 18 months after being given it by local astro society, it is my first proper telescope and I have been more than happy with it's performance.

The manual tracking does take a little bit of getting used to, but from what I understand it is a whole lot easier for a beginner to understand and work than a relatively complicated EQ mount. They are good for learning your way around the sky by star hopping in conjunction with easy to use star maps and planetarium programs such as Stellarium, which many SGL members advise beginners to download as a starting point and for good reason, it really is useful for newbies and experienced astronomers alike.

The size is adequate to give decent views of a wide range of objects from relatively light polluted areas such as suburbs, the medium F/Ratio also makes the 'scope perform well on both planets and deep sky objects and it is also not too fussy on the accuracy of collimation nor the quality of the eyepieces. The one supplied with the 'scope should do you fine for many months, they certainly did me for 9 months before I bought a decent wide field eyepiece.

I hope you enjoy your new 'scope when it arrives and you have great times observing with it

[sammy1404]

thanks guys for all the help, im going down to my local shop tomorow, it was the only telescope they had in stock ready to take home so im going to go see if its still there

Hypernova, do you have any photos of anything you have seen with it? dw if you dont

[CGolder]

Great choice with plenty of budget remaining

[Hypernova]

thanks guys for all the help, im going down to my local shop tomorow, it was the only telescope they had in stock ready to take home so im going to go see if its still there

Hypernova, do you have any photos of anything you have seen with it? dw if you dont

I certainly do, I have posted a few images of Jupiter and some others that I took with a basic webcam in place of the eyepiece and hand tracked. I thought they were pretty good considering that the mount doesn't track and needs nudging two direction in comparison to an EQ which has only one direction of movement.

Jupiter:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-planetary/114643-jupiter-uranus-september-20th-21st.html

ISS:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-widefield-special-events-comets/119260-iss-pass-9-11-10-a.html

Plus a basic e-sketch of C/2009 K5 McNaught which I observed back in the summer:

http://stargazerslounge.com/imaging-sketches-unconventional/106373-reprocessed-k5-mcnaught.html

Also have a look through the observing reports section for reports of some of the objects that I have seen, the majority of them were seen through the dob and the list is always growing in the absence of cloud cover

[sammy1404]

thanks, great pic of jupiter!

[brantuk]

Couldn't help myself having to anwser this thread so here's my two pence worth:

Imho - there really is no difference between setting up a dob or an EQ mount other than due to "type" and "time". The dob is a little quicker to set up cos of it's simple construction. The EQ has to be polar aligned. Both are a doddle once you know what's going on and the EQ takes only 2-3 mins more.

Dob Tracking - The bigger the dob the easier this gets - at the smaller end (8" and below), you'll find yourself constantly nudging it in 2 planes up/down and L/R. 10" and above this is markedly less. The main reason for getting dobs is thirst for aperture - I wouldn't consider one under 10" unless budget was an issue.

EQ Tracking - EQ mounts follow the natural movement of stars accross the sky, this is important especially for beginners. Once polar aligned you only need to track in one plane and you get a comfortable hand held knob on a flexi cable for that. This is much easier than any small dob. Add a motor for RA and you don't even need the knob and cable.

Generally - dobs don't come ready to use out of the box. There are inevitable mods to do for friction and balance. You really have to know the sky because dobs don't have setting circles. EQ setting circles aren't 100% accurate but will get you in the right area of sky. You can star hop with either mount type, and both mount types with a given aperture will yield exactly the same objects (this depends on tube aperture only).

Photography - You can photograph planets on both mounts but an EQ will facilitate longer exposures, and with an RA motor will open up dso's for imaging. A dob won't do that for you, even motorised dobs don't track accurately enough for dso imaging.

Goto - opinion is divided on this and it's really a personal preference. For someone who just want's to do casual observing without learning too much about the sky, goto is ideal (e.g. for entertaining familly and friends). Manual users get a lot of satisfaction from "the hunt". Goto offers a lot of extra info as well as manual slewing and auto tracking. Goto also facilitates auto alignment and computer control from a "warm room".

Dobs come in two easilly transportable bit's, EQ's in three. Both are easy to assemble unless you're a total numpty. An 8" newtonian is a great starter aperture, but for mounts I would advise "try b4U buy". An astro society would be most helpful with that, and occasionaly some retailers will be amenable.

Hope that helps

[CGolder]

Some good points raised brantuk,

although most of the parts on the dob that you might replace, Finder/Focuser would also have the same problems on a reflector on eq.

if you are not planning on using a motor on a eq mount then you need to use slow motion controls while at the eyepiece end and just being at the eyepiece on a reflector on a eq can be difficult enough.

If you wanted to do astro photography on a motorised eq5 with a 200p i think it would be less than fun, the mount is too small...a smaller scope would help but wouldnt provide the visual side as well, the mount would certainly require upgrading to a larger mount/smaller scope.

I am not sure why a 8" dob requires move nudging that a 10" dob, i think the skywatchers all have the same focal length up to 10" so the FOV would be the same?

I personally love goto, its a great system and if you had the budget then certainly worth considering, especially as you are looking to astro photography in the future, (heq5+) but without the budget for this at the moment the dob will give you the same views and then could be mounted on a heq5 later or used as a travel scope or visual scope while taking images with an imaging rig.

but for mounts I would advise "try b4U buy". An astro society would be most helpful with that, and occasionaly some retailers will be amenable.

This is the best possible bit of advice, even though some things should be easier or might be better... everyone has preferences and buying new equipment to find you brought the wrong one can get expensive

[brantuk]

Well "push to" round the veil is a lot easier in a 16" dob than it is on my 12" and you don't lose the object as easilly - it's a difference I noticed at Kelling when trying other peoples scopes.

Between 10" and 8" is a hazy area where I felt the line could roughly be drawn, though there really isn't a distinct line. I agree EQ5 might be a bit small for an 8" newt, but I have no doubt that single plane manual tracking with an EQ is definitely easier than "push to" with a dob.

I just felt a lot had been said to the OP about the benefits of dobs (and not enough of the drawbacks) when EQ's are equally worth considering albeit with different pro's and con's.

As for me - I personally think astronomy covers both types for different purposes - so I have both lol

[sammy1404]

right im going to order my telescope tomorow now because i have realised that i can now afford the 10 inch dob. Would you lot recommend me buying the skywatcher skyliner 250px dob rather than the skyliner 200p dob? Its an extra £100 for just the extra aperture. Will there be much of a dramatic increase in what i see, DSO's that is or will it be minimal? im guessing it will just bring out the objects that were to faint for the 200p but is it worth it?