Micro Milling Machines.

[black5f]

When replaced my aging ML7 about 3 years ago I did quite a bit if research. Although the machines are basically the same there are different grades. The Chesters stood out as better finished, smoother etc. Some of the machines are gear driven and not so smooth as the belt driven ranges, think the champion is a belt machine, nearly bought one, then was offered the rodney, with stand and drip tray had the edge. Speed range is important if you want to use small, ie 3mm vs larger cutters like dove tails etc. Champions a good machine.

[simon84]

You can mill on a decent Lathe (with a vertical slide) but you cant turn on a decent (or otherwise) Mill!!!!! - But you knew that already!

Have you thought of second hand? Try G&M machine tools (usual disclaimer) If you can get something ex-school (often Boxford) the chances are that it has been used for less than a couple of hours a year (NOT joking!) and apart from lack of paint will be more or less as new!

Thanks for letting me know about G&M, will be keeping a close eye on that. Couple of ML7's on there......hmmmm. Nope, not buying anything until Feb.

As for stuff to make, well all sorts really, its also going to be just something to do. I'm fed up thinking of something that would be really useful and it then only ever being a sketch. You never know when that next Dragons Den winning idea might pop up....lol.

[Gweedo]

The Sherline mill can hold 6mm or 1/4 inch cutter shafts in the standard collets. I've got the screwcutting attachment for my lathe so threads are covered as well.

The ultimate upgrade is the CNC attachment, but then you're getting into the serious spend territority.

As the saying goes, you remember the quality long after you've forgotten the price, but I seem to recall that the mill and lathe came to under £1000 when I bought them - I don't want to think about how much I've spent on the accessories though........

[black5f]

Please be careful if buying 2nd hand. There is nothing wrong with a worn lathe as long as you know where it's worn and you pay an appropriate price. Myford still supply all spares but they are expensive. You can get the beds reground etc. A good one is hard to find. You need somone with you who knows the beast, there are some that will loosen gibs and bearings, remove shims so it seems smooth as silk! Most lathes spend 99% of their lives only a couple of inches from the chuck and wear there. They are T beds not V beds and they need to be shimmed. Good ones are very good though and treated right will outlive you by a long way but there are a lot of dogs. Hense the price of a new one. There are bargains to be had, schools and colleges, I saw one the other day at a Uni, 40 years old and mint! Don't be concerned about the odd ding on a bed, it's the 2 thou wear that you should be concerned about, the saddle will be loose near the chuck and tight near the tailstock. Very old ML7s are different, the beds aren't hardend and can wear badly. the headstock bearings are plain bronze and they are difficult to get now. More modern ones and the super 7 have tapered rollers and are much easier to adjust or replace. This site Page Title is an excellent source of info on the specs of older lathes. Places like Chronos and RDG sell faceplates, chucks etc threaded to fit. An old ML7 can be a project in itself! Hope that helps, please be careful.

[simon84]

I will definitely be getting the screwcutting hardware. I've not stopped looking around all afternoon and have found a few possibles.

Its deffinitely going to be happening in Feb now though. It seems £1000 will be about right for both machines.

Next thing to consider is a tig welder.....

[black5f]

My lovely Shereline, the DB11, Meddings (WWII) pillar drill and a power hacksaw (with lube pump / sump). Engineering on a budget! The hack saw and drill were in a skip! The hack saw had a broken gear (replace = £12) and the drill was 3 phase - I had a single phase motor knocking about. The hack saw still retails at £800!!!! Keep your eyes WIDE open!

[simon84]

Very nice setup indeed, that hacksaw was a real find. Nicely done. I'd love a full size lathe but I have no chance of that. A lottery win however will fund a new machine shop with a house built onto it....lol.

[simon84]

Please be careful if buying 2nd hand. There is nothing wrong with a worn lathe as long as you know where it's worn and you pay an appropriate price. Myford still supply all spares but they are expensive. You can get the beds reground etc. A good one is hard to find. You need somone with you who knows the beast, there are some that will loosen gibs and bearings, remove shims so it seems smooth as silk! Most lathes spend 99% of their lives only a couple of inches from the chuck and wear there. They are T beds not V beds and they need to be shimmed. Good ones are very good though and treated right will outlive you by a long way but there are a lot of dogs. Hense the price of a new one. There are bargains to be had, schools and colleges, I saw one the other day at a Uni, 40 years old and mint! Don't be concerned about the odd ding on a bed, it's the 2 thou wear that you should be concerned about, the saddle will be loose near the chuck and tight near the tailstock. Very old ML7s are different, the beds aren't hardend and can wear badly. the headstock bearings are plain bronze and they are difficult to get now. More modern ones and the super 7 have tapered rollers and are much easier to adjust or replace. This site Page Title is an excellent source of info on the specs of older lathes. Places like Chronos and RDG sell faceplates, chucks etc threaded to fit. An old ML7 can be a project in itself! Hope that helps, please be careful.

Thanks for all the advice. My Dad has been milling and turning since I was a baby so he will be going with me on any potential 2nd hand purchase. To be honest though I'm rather keen on buying them new and am quite taken with the two machines I mentioned earlier from ChesterUK.

An ML7 would be nice but is probably too big for the space I have, we'll see how it goes though, any big stuff I might consider making can always be done at my Dads place.

[Bizibilder]

To be honest, the Chinese kit (Chester and Warco) are very good these days (A bit like Chinese 'scopes!!) - Dont forget to budget for tool bits/ drills etc!! (BTW DON'T buy carbide bits!! They work but you can't sharpen them (with an ordinary grinder) go for HSS (High Speed Steel) and a 6" bench grinder - they will last for years if kept "touched up" and really sharp.

[simon84]

Hi Bizi, I'm already tooled up to the eyeballs. I never use carbide bits. I've a huge collection of HSS drill bits from installing all the ali and stainless steel shop fronts. My Dad has promised to put me a small kit of cutters together for both milling and turning.

I really like the machines on offer at Chester, the Warco ones were a bit over budget. My 6" grinder was a £20 Lidl special but so far has been fine.

Just looking forward to getting started now.

[Gweedo]

I was in the RAF. I was stationed at RAF Brize Norton - home of the VC10. The aircraft were sol old you couldn't get spares for it, so the station had the MOTHER of all workshops 'cos they had to build the spares. Every Friday saw me rummaging through the scrap bins. Aluminium was aplenty, brass was common and i've still got sheets of off-cut titanium (if it didn't have the stock number on it it had to go to scrap because of the lack of audit trail!!). Seeing the things those boys were making were humbing. If I ever won the lottery a fully equipped metal workshop would be firts on the list!

[simon84]

That sounds great Gweedo, my Dad has promised me some scrap to get me going, most of their work Aerospace or MOD stuff so could end up with some nice scrap aswell. I bet that was one heck of a machine shop though.

Same here though, big lottery win will equal in a fully equipped three phase work shop....

[Polar Bear]

Thanks for all the replies chaps. I used to be a miller/turner back in my engineering days and am really hankering for some full sized machinery but I cant get away with that.

I have a few things that I have in mind that I want to start making and will go and have a look at all the links you've given.

That one I linked to was the first one I found, at 3.2mm for the biggest cutter its seriously undersized for what I really want. Something a bit bigger would be nice. I've got a budget of about £1000 and I would love to try and get two machines if possible, its not happening until Feb next year so I have plenty of time for some research. I've seen the old Bridgeports I used to work on years ago but there is not way I'm going to get an 8 foot tall 3 phased machine in my house......lol.

From my own previous experience, if you have some space, a mid sized single phase machine second-hand from a reputable ebay seller will be a lot less than a new 'hobby' machine with limited capacity. After using a Bridgeport I think you would be rather disappointed with the performance of the smaller units.

BENCH TOP MILL / DRILL MACHINE - 2MT - 240 VOLT on eBay (end time 21-Nov-10 21:40:44 GMT)

hobbymat bfe 65 milling machine on eBay (end time 27-Nov-10 19:27:46 GMT)

[bish789]

For anyone considering getting a used unit but think three phase is out of reach, you can now get an inverter that takes a single phase supply, and gives out three phase with 120 degrees between phases, just like the real stuff.

Can't remember how much they are, but they were developed for woodworking machinery.

Those old boys can still used. Three phase units are as cheap as chips now.

[simon84]

Thanks for the links, shame that first one is ending so soon.

Obviously using the Bridgeport had the advantage in that it could undertake some serious work. The two machines I'm looking at on Chester are alot less capable than the Bridgeport but I know what there limitations will be before I've even bought them. They are more than suitable for what I want to do but if I can save a few quid and get something a bit larger then I will. These have got to be table top. I do not have any room for a free standing machine.

[spartan]

i have quite a bit off chester machinery, a 920 lathe, coventry lathe, 2 lux mills, and a small champion mill, they are all quite good machines, and are good value for money, but all have silly design faults on them, i have a harrison lathe and a bridgeport, and i must say they are superb machines, but you will pay through the nose for a good harrison lathe ect, i have a myford super 7 lathe, good machine but limited with a 15mm spindel bore, but i surpose it all depends what your going to make on it. the beauty of myfords you can buy almost anything for them.

my advice, buy the biggest machine you can accomadate, and if you can get a good condition english machine, but having said that a new chinese machine is much better than a worn out english machine. a worn out machine is good for nothing.

i make model steam engines, air rifles, ect, its amazing what you can make with a lathe, miller ect, you will wonder how you ever did with out them, i have a few pics of the stuff i make here if anyones interested. www.isp-airrifles.com. i have no doubt i will find a use for the machinery on my new astronmy hobbie.

atb

shaun

[simon84]

Had a look at your site Spartan, some really nice work there. Do you fashion the stocks aswell?

I'm stripping my workshed out and seeing if I can get a 6x4 shed somewhere to house everything else to see if I can make room for something larger.

At the moment its looking like the Champion mill and Conquest lathe from Chester UK.

Should cover what I want to do. Although I have had a look at the Model B 3 in 1 that Ron recommended and I have to say I like it and looking at the spec it would suit me down to the ground. A nice 100mm chuck on the lathe.........choices choices.

[spartan]

hi simon

the champion mill, is quite a good little machine, at least it as a dovetailed column, so you dont lose your centres if you need to move the head up or down. the conquest lathe, in my oppinion you would be better buying the warco BV-20 Metalworking Lathe, slightly bigger but you get a proper geared head, i think axminster power tools do the same machine, its just a different colour. the conquest lathes suffer with the printed circuit board, that controls the variable speed, even though they are surposed to be made in the usa. i know several people who have had this problem with them.

the three in one machines are ok but its better to have two separate machines, much more versatile and easier to set up, but the 3 in 1 lathe is bigger and as more capacity, i surpose it depends how much space you have, and can you accomadate two separate machines

ps, yes i do make the stocks

atb

shaun

[simon84]

Cheers Shaun, they are fantastic looking air rifles.

I'd prefer two machines and I will have a look at the one you have suggested. At the end of the day if I can have a lathe that has a chuck 100mm or bigger that will do me down to the ground. I will look into the circuit board issues. I have plenty of time to do my research so hopefully I will be able to avoid any potential pitfalls. Being able to turn threads is a must though.

[black5f]

I would 2nd what Sparten said. Multi machines if limited space but you will find a lot of mucking about if you switch from milling to lathe. Mills need to be beefier and the gibs tend to be tighter. If yo have two machines you can just carry the work over, not spend 2-3hours on set up. Making one offs, it's quite normal to spend 80% of the time just setting up the job! What ever, you won't look back, having machine tools at hand at home is just soooo useful!

[simon84]

I'm definitely going for two machines now with the Champion mill being the favourite. I've been considering what I'm going to be getting upto and am now looking for a lathe that has a chuck that opens up to 125mm.

Cant wait though, its going to be great making all my own bits and pieces. I remember the setup times from when I was in the game years ago.....guess I've got all that fun to look forward to...lol.

[black5f]

I will add that I'm a dyed in the wool myford boxford man. But the modern far eastern offerings are really very good and should not be compared with 80s and 90s imports and they are a fraction of the price. It's not like you are going to be using them 24/7 in a production shop. One difference, on and "English" lathe the cross slide markings are generally cuts off radius, on chinese lathes the increments are off diameter. Tom

[simon84]

Thanks for the tips Tom, I always tended to take a first cut and then measure, so I'll get a feeling for what the markings are saying. Good to know though.

I'd love to go the Myford Boxford route but I dont have the funds to go that far , or the space really. I've still got plenty of time before I buy so you never know what might crop up in that time. I'm going to have a look at the back garden and see if I can possibly get a better home for it all out there, at the moment I'm in a 15 foot by 4 foot shed under a ramp with 8 foot height one end and 6 foot the other. So not the best place but at the moment its my only space.

There not going to be 24/7 but they will be used a fair bit. I've got a few projects for myself already, just getting the drawing together now and then I can jump straight in and get on with it.

[black5f]

No problem and keep looking. As I said, eyes wide open, I was hours from getting the champion when the Rodney came up. You never know! People chuck stuff away nowadays that for a few quid is up and running. (£800 hacksaw destined for the skip!) And when you get your tools, you'll know you can make bits to fix them! And it's something to do when its cloudy! Good luck mate. T

[simon84]

Cheers, I really appreciate all the help and advice, my eyes are deffo wide open, I'll have a drive around and see if I can find anything.