GOTO for Skywatcher Flextube AUTO dobs is a reality !

[Markone]

-snip

Finally - does the 3.07 Synscan AZ firmware work in the version of the hand controller that I have? (which doesn't have a time chip and only has "two star" and "brightest star" as initial alignment options).

Does anyone know?

Jonathan

With "time chip", do you mean a realtime clock that works in absence of power supply ?

As far as i know no SW hand controller have this function, but i could be wrong, of course.

As i told you on CN forum, mine former EQ Synscan still works after a flashing with AZ FW version and also i was able to revert to EQ version without problems.

So, why not to flash your one with version 3.07 ?

Marco.

[Jusher02]

Yes, my reference was to a clock that would keep time in the absence of the power supply. I thought that non-European models had this but I could be wrong.

I'm hesitant to try upgrading the firmware because I don't have a copy of the existing 3.06 AZ firmware to revert to, if there are problems. I'm also not sure if I have a cable that will work. So for now, I'll keep the 3.06 firmware on the controller until I'm sure the upgrade would (a) work, and ( help

Jonathan

[johninderby]

The GOTO has only been released by a local NZ supplier so it appears to be a decison made at a local level rather than by the Skywatcher head office.

Everywhere else Skywatcher doesn't want anything to do with it yet. I haven't been able to get a definate answer other than they are still working on a revised version and that it isn't ready for release yet. Is it just a matter of not being accurate enough for Skywatcher, or is there something more serious that could cause damage to either the hand control or mount with the first GOTO upgrade? Perhaps it works OK but the potential failure rate was too high.

It will be interesting to see the results in actual use.

John

[Markone]

-snip

or is there something more serious that could cause damage to either the hand control or mount with the first GOTO upgrade?

John

HC's damages could only come from erroneous wire connections or incompatible FW vs HW that could transform it in a cold brick.

As i told before, i successfully programmed my EQ Synscan with AZ firmware and then successfully reverted to EQ firmware.

Yes, i took a risk, i know, but life is often more challenging than that.

So i'm quite sure that exists only one Synscan flash upgradable HC version for both AZ & EQ platform.

Referring to mount's connection, the needs is to match following lines :

- GND

- +12V

- data TX

- data RX

GND & +12V are doubled wires; of course, any wire swap could be fatal.

My opinion about the whole matter is :

the real problem is the Flextube mount clucth play, that eats a great amount of precision and provides a huge backlash, i guess ignored by axis encoders.

The first conseguence is :

the first two slew speed are at best useless without a software backlash management.

To be fully honest this thing is disturbing me quite a lot, especially if i want to use this scope as a pure dob.

When i push it upper, leaving the tube i obtain a huge angle drop.

I also own an EQ6 Synterek mount and i could easily say that is another world in terms of precision & stability.

To finalize, i guess that SW techs are aware about these problem and i can understand their hesitations about GOTO function's uncover.

But, for sure, i'll give a try to GOTO control.

Marco.

[calibos]

In terms of backlash. In Azimuth maybe you could add a piece of carpet or something between the groundboard and underside of rockerbox to add some friction. In terms of Alt, I would imagine properly balancing the scope with counterweights would help a great deal. Even with the mighty servocat Dob drive system, proper balance of the scope is imperative.

[johninderby]

Hi Marco

Yes I agree with you. I think it may be a case of yes it works if you're prepared to accept it's limitations and that it's not going to be up to Skywatchers usual standards. Definately worth playing around with though.

It would be unfair to compare it with my 14" dob with it's StellarCAT drive sytem. Some say how come the StellarCAT system is so expensive but you do get what you pay for. The StellarCAT drive doesn't just slew to a new target but rather glides silently and effortlessly, and if you listen really hard there is just the faintest whisper of the motors.

John

[Markone]

-snip

The StellarCAT drive doesn't just slew to a new target but rather glides silently ...

John

Silently, my dream ...

Before to listen Celestron AZ mounts, like CPCs, i was convinced that my EQ6 Syntrek was loud

Flextube is louder than EQ6 but quieter than other ones.

Some news about the making of HC custom cable : i spent some times, fuel and money, but now i'm able to start to build it, maybe this night.

Marco.

[Markone]

-snip

maybe this night.

Marco.

I GOT HIM ! :D:D:D

Flextube mount GOTO function works like a charm !

Only tested indoor, but it seems to do everything properly.

I spent many hours and i lost a sleeping night, but for sure, it worths.

OK, let's go in bed for a couple of hours.

Marco.

[Matthew.Blake]

I GOT HIM ! :D:D:D

Flextube mount GOTO function works like a charm !

Only tested indoor, but it seems to do everything properly.

I spent many hours and i lost a sleeping night, but for sure, it worths.

OK, let's go in bed for a couple of hours.

Marco.

Any idea on the accuracy of it yet?

[Markone]

Any idea on the accuracy of it yet?

Not yet, for that you could refer to CN review, even if made with older FW release.

Alignment options are :

Brightest Star

2-Star

Marco.

[Jusher02]

Here's a quick image to show what I've managed to get from the 12" Skywatcher Auto Dob so far on Jupiter (mono only, sorry). I haven't yet got the best from it, but already I'm more than happy with the results. The quality of the optics seems very good and the tracking is pretty decent too. This was from my second session with the Dob, last night.

Jonathan

[Theninjagecko]

Awesom image, would love to see a color one. Seems the tracking is good at hi mag. Was that with a 5x powermate? what ccd?

[NickH]

The tracking and optics were very good in the review model I had. As for the GOTO, I cannot comment

[Markone]

Awesom image, would love to see a color one. Seems the tracking is good at hi mag. Was that with a 5x powermate? what ccd?

Hi Theninjagecko,

let me say a thing : the Flextube AUTO mount is a pain with high power magnification like 5mm equivalent CCD plus a barlow, even if "only" 2X.

The axis clutch's play let you to lose the target from FOV as you apply small forces to the system, for instance when you turn the focus knob.

Clutch's play is not read by encoders and so not compensated.

If you are looking for high resolution solar system equipment, IMHO avoid this telescope series.

Is not impossible to use them for that, but forget precison & stability.

For what i could see with mine (10"), the job is fair till 80x, after that axis backlash and plays start to bother a lot.

Maybe in the future will appear improving mods, but for sure you never reach stability levels like a steel mount like EQ6.

I will be happy to be wrong, but ....

My 2 cents,

Marco.

[Jusher02]

I agree that the scope has quite a lot of backlash/play in the mount axes, which can make it problematic for high powered tracking. However, tracking and imaging solar system objects at high power is still very feasible. For example, a week after first getting the scope and in my very first night of using a RGB filter set, I managed to obtain the following (approx. 600 frames stacked in each RGB channel, processed with Registax and Astra Image).

This was with nothing more than the auto-tracking controller and a fairly approximate initial alignment to the North.

Jonathan

[Markone]

This was with nothing more than the auto-tracking controller and a fairly approximate initial alignment to the North.

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan,

this Jupiter image is simply great, nothing to say.

I know that tracking accuracy is enough to make some planetary video to be processed with software stacking programs that track theirself the moving target within the video frames.

So until the little planet circle si included in the frame, you are right.

The problem is what happen when you focus the tube or swap the ocular : the aiming changes a lot, no matter.

So you have to adjust it with controller, but ... the first 2 slew speed are useless because when you invert the direction you have to wait an eternity before the axis moves again due to play & backlash.

IMHO, at high power is frustating, at least.

[johninderby]

10" SkyWatcher GOTO GPS dob

I've been testing out the 10" SkyWatcher Auto with a SynScan hand control and so far so good. Updated the HC firmware to V3.07, plugged it in and it worked perfectly first time. I also plugged in a SkyWatcher GPS mouse, and again no problems and it works perfectly as well. I will have to wait for some better weather to test it out properly yet but I think GOTO accuracy is about the same as the Celestron SLT.

Here are a few things I have noticed about factors that will affect the performance.

1. Balancing the OTA properly is absolutely essential to minimise any play in the ALT drive.
   
2. Replacing the standard focuser with a decent dual speed crayford will greatly reduce any movement of the OTA while focusing as the fine focusing knob takes such a light touch to move.
   
3. Or fit an electric focuser, which should work particularly well if trying some imaging.
   
4. From reading various reports it appears that there is some variation in the amount of play in the AZ and ALT movement present in various scopes. I suspect that there is some variation in how the clutches are set when the scopes are shipped.
   

Overall while I'm very pleased with the results so far you have to keep in mind that it's still a relatively low budget scope with compromises. Great for visual (very nice optics) but for imaging the compromises in the design will start to show. Should be capable of some nice lunar/planetary imaging though just so long as you are prepared to live with the limitations of imaging with a low budget GOTO system.

John

[digitaldave]

John,

Great to hear that you've got the GOTO working! Makes one wonder why SkyWatcher pulled the official plug on making it available.

Would it work OK without the GPS mouse? I guess you'd just input your lat/long and time if you didn't have the GPS, just like on regular SW GOTO mounts...

Dave.

[johninderby]

Hi Dave

The GPS isn't needed, but I thought I might as well see if it would work with the latest HC firmware. Very convenient though. Hopefully over the next few weeks I'll be able to test it more completely to see if I can dig up any real problems or limitations.

John

[Markone]

Balancing the OTA properly is absolutely essential to minimise any play in the ALT drive.

Could you suggest the best way to balance the OTA ?

Thanks, Marco.

[johninderby]

I used some small balance weights made by Astro Enginering and made a bracket that fits near the bottom of the OTA. I can remove or add weights to get the balance right. You can just see the weights in the photo of the scope above. You could also use any other small weights that you can find localy.

I found that to get the balance about right it is easier if you rermove the OTA and hold it by the plastic parts where it fits into the base so that you can feel how it balances. Just add or remove weights until the OTA balances. Once you have it balanced without any eyepiece then you can add weight equal to the eyepiece or camera to the bottom end of the OTA when you are using the scope.

John

[johninderby]

One other thing about the amount of weight needed to balance the OTA. It might actualy be less than the weight of the eyepiece or camera. You might have to experiment to find out.

John

[Theninjagecko]

Skywatcher was probably hoping we wouldn't find this out, then hit us with an expensive option. Milking the gravy train so to speak. I'm sure it wont be long until 3.0.8 stops this from working somehow.

[calibos]

Skywatcher was probably hoping we wouldn't find this out, then hit us with an expensive option. Milking the gravy train so to speak. I'm sure it wont be long until 3.0.8 stops this from working somehow.

While those were my initial thoughts when we first heard that the Goto upgrade option was being cancelled for an unspecified time, I think we can definately rule it out now.

First of all, they wouldn't have been hitting us with an expensive option. There was a full page advert in Sky @ Night a few months ago for the new scope with details about the Goto upgrade. The Magazine had already gone to print before Skywatcher changed their mind on the Goto Upgrade. The advert stated that the Synscan Upgrade handset was going to be GBP145 which I think was a great price for what it was going to bring to the scope.\

Now that we have some reviews of the plain Tracking version of the scope, the only official version of the GOTO upgraded scope fom New Zealand and the 'Hacked' GOTO upgraded scopes by our own JohnInDerby and a few others, we can conclude that Skywatcher are genuinely withholding the GOTO upgrade for technical reasons, be they mechanical with the Backlash in the drive/gear system we are reading about or Software related with the handsets crashing and/or not initialising reliably.

Recent new versions of the firmware indicate that they are working to resolve the problem.

[Crusader]

The Auto-tracking Dobs became available in South Africa on the 26th. Go-To is not officially supported and the local distributor stated that it was due to SW not being happy with the software as yet. Seems it is still in the pipeline.